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Author Topic: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!  (Read 11843 times)

swedishprojectbuilders

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Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« on: October 25, 2010, 08:10:44 am »

We are two Swedes trying to build a submarine from scratch with no previous experience as a school project.
Not really chosen which scale or which real model it will look like! But we have decided to build a WTC with a homebuilt piston tank inside a hull.
More updates will come pretty soon, and we will also try to choose a design type for the hull in the next coming week.

Regards Sebastian and Kristoffer
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garston1

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2010, 12:26:03 pm »

We look forward to it  :-))
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2010, 08:36:25 pm »

After some discussions today, have we agreed on building a model of the HMS Gotland class.
Our main objective is to make it work and we will not be focusing as much on the design as on the WTC.
One idea is to build it in 1:60 scale - which makes the model aprox. 100cm in length and 10 cm in height.


We have also discussed the possibility to make our own piston tank, which already seems to be a big challenge.
Any suggestions?

Regards Sebastian and Kristoffer
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swedishprojectbuilders

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late02

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2010, 07:34:18 am »

If you haven't already read it buy the latest number of Allt om hobby where there are an article about building HMS Gotland and HMS Uppland
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2010, 08:15:40 am »

If you haven't already read it buy the latest number of Allt om hobby where there are an article about building HMS Gotland and HMS Uppland
We will! Thank you very much for the tip, Are you from Sweden?

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derekwarner

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 10:20:02 am »

swedishprojectbuilders  %% %% building submarines requires you to be observant  :-))

...and you posted ..."We will! .....Are you from Sweden?

Did you read the posting location from late02 ? >>:-( ......which confirms that he is from Vendelso ...Sweden.......Derek  :}
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Derek Warner

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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 01:47:58 pm »

Hehe, saw that afterwards! Sorry mate  :}
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2010, 08:22:53 pm »

Since one of us has AutoCad and Solidworks experience which we will be using to get some good measurements and a good idea about how we as easy as possible can create the Gotland Class Hull. More intresting updates will come later in the build.

We recently found an old RC car with an interesting motor, posting the pic below. Anyone think it can be useful for our submarine, maybe for the piston tank or as main engine? Also a 2-channel radio and a servo (nothing we have had any thoughts of using).


Regards Sebastian and Kristofer
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2010, 11:02:00 pm »

Hello everybody!
We havent done much practical work so far. Though we have been collecting information and other crusual infromation to make this project a succes.

We've been thinking alot about the "X-rudder" on the Gotland Class. Is it possible to make an X-rudder submarine with only 4 channels on the radio?
But still be able to twist the 4 rudders in all directions. Down/Up, Left/Right ( 2 channels dedicated to the rudder sterring)

Regards Sebastian and Kristofer
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Mankster

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2010, 07:24:34 am »

We've been thinking alot about the "X-rudder" on the Gotland Class. Is it possible to make an X-rudder submarine with only 4 channels on the radio?
But still be able to twist the 4 rudders in all directions. Down/Up, Left/Right ( 2 channels dedicated to the rudder sterring)


Yes 2 servos, exactly like + tail boat just everything turn by 45 degrees. Ofcourse you have to use a mixer, or better still, get one of those X tail pitch controllers from Engel or elsewhere.

swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2010, 08:53:31 am »

Aha! I've heard of those mixers before.
Thank you very much for your help!

We will try to start build the WTC in the next week.

Regards Sebastian and Kristofer
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 12:43:00 am »

Been working some with AutoCad 2010 today.
Far from done but starting to look like a submarine  :-)

We are doing this sketch in AutoCad to get a good idea about how the measurements will be in scale 1:60.
All measurements on the sub in Autocad is estimated from the picture previous posted.



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kazzer

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2010, 09:13:05 pm »

If its not too late, can I persuade you to make this in 1:72 scale.  At 1:60 the boat will be 39" long and in 1:72 it is 33", which is still a great size for a model, especially if you are running it in swimming pools.

1:72 fits better for others who have a fleet of different boats. Most kit manufacturers are adopting this as a 'standard size' these days. And I have a ready made torpedo system that could drop in, if you want to have that option.

The WTC looks very big for the boat and I wonder if you have made any consideration for the amount of ballast and foam required. I'm not an expert on determining ballast sizes, but there are plenty of folks around who have a good handle on it. Have you consulted anyone on this?

As for making a scratch built WTC with a piston tank, I'd suggest you are right as that idea being a challenge. Those systems on the market have evolved over a long period of time and there's a long learning curve to follow them. I'd suggest you firstly consider where you are going to run this boat. If it's in a swimming pool or shallow pond then why go to the lengths of engineering a piston system? If it sinks, just wade in and get it - keep it simple! All you want to do is make the boat surface and dive, so just use Snort. Ballast the boat with the tank full of water so it is submerged with just the Snorkel tube showing. Then, to surface, simply pump air into the tank from the snorkel tube to bring it to the surface. Diving is by dive planes and motion. Frankly, it doesn't get any simpler than that.  If you want to run in deep and dangerous lakes, then put a small bottle of gas on board to blow the tank when the failsafe comes on.
We have some of the best modelers in the USA changing to Snort these days.
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late02

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2010, 08:14:45 am »

Or You could go the other way and go for 1/50 used by quite a few in Sweden like this one

http://www.stockholmsskalabat.org.se/jom/index.php?option=com_phocagallery&view=category&id=21:fredriks-batar&Itemid=0

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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2010, 01:11:16 pm »

Hello again everyone!

Due to much work in school have the project been put to side for a while. We will now get back to work and in the upcoming week make an order on materials for the WTC.
We have changed the scale for the model to about 1:50, because we've figured out the WTC then can be approx. 900mm long.

We've also slaugthered an old RC Helicopter and collected 2 servos and 1 4-channel RC radio. Do you guys/girls think it will be possible for ous to use this radio? We dont know if it is an 2.4GHz or if it is a 35MHz. Outside the radio its marked with  "FM 35M" and on the otherside of the recevier its marked with: "Dragonfly" "THR" "RLD" "POWER". (dragonfly is the brand) We've been trying to find some information on the manufacturers website but with no succes. I'will post some photos below on the recevier and transmiter.

Thankfull for quick answer.

Regards Kristofer and Sebastian















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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2010, 01:19:23 pm »

Yes 2 servos, exactly like + tail boat just everything turn by 45 degrees. Ofcourse you have to use a mixer, or better still, get one of those X tail pitch controllers from Engel or elsewhere.
I've had some thoughts about what you answered last time. Do you mean we will be needing 4 servos and 1 Mixer or. 2 servos and 1 mixer?
What about using 4 servos to each X-rudder in the stern and 1 extra servo in the tower for the additional horizontal rudder plains?
And have all these being operated from 2-channels?

Regards Kristofer and Sebastian
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2010, 07:47:05 pm »

Hi everybody,
We are now back on track with our project. We've been collecting PVC-pipes for the WTC and ballast tank. We have also been in contact with a company in our hometown whom is selling RC-parts. New update coming soon. Posting pictures below on the pipes and the PVC-board which we will be using to make discs for the WTC.



REGARDS SEBASTIAN and Kristofer
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U3503

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2010, 08:08:21 pm »

Why will you use the WTC System, may be it is easier with bajonett rings. Ask Frederik Z. in Stockholm, he has build a nice Gotland.
Om du will kan jag mailar epost adress per pm eller mail.
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 10:53:54 pm »

Have happend some since last time. But here comes some pictures on our progress this far.
Remember that RC submarines are totally new for ous and we are not looking for perfection. Just to make it work and cheap.
This far we've spended about 2000SKR = aproximately 200EUR.











One of our biggest issues will be the sealing of our homemade ballasttank, but we may have a good solution upcoming to that.
We have orderad this from engel:
2 x   Rubber Bellow, 2 pcs.   10,30 €
1 x   Prop Shaft -stainless steel- 4x235mm M4   6,10 €
1 x   Drive Shaft Sealing Ring 4-11-6 for shaft 4mm   2,49 €
1 x   7-Blade Scimitar Prop RIGHT dia. 70mm M4   24,60 €

the thing is that we are not really sure how we are going to gear down one of the motors, any suggestions?
And please keep the suggestions in a resonable price.

I think the motor now does about 15000rpm, and we are powering this motor and the ballasttank motor separately on one battery, Dominator 7,2V 3000mAh Ni-Mh.
2 servos will mechanicaly operate a switch for the ballasttank and the propeller.
The receiver and servos will be running on a seperate batterypack of 4x AA-batteries, with a switch mounted on the end cap of the WTC for easy turn of.

more updates later

Regards Sebastian and Kristofer
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Roadrunner

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2011, 09:10:34 am »

geared motors are readily available in different ratios, and motor size, i use the mfa's typically as they are cheap small and very powerful. have a look here and see if anything hits the right spot.

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/geared_motors.html
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2011, 07:41:39 pm »

Beginning to be ready with the ballasttank. Though, we still have to seal between the piston and cylinder.
Any suggestions? The piston is made out of 6 pieces of PVC displayed on previous picture.

Will soon start with the outer hull and the diveplanes...

Real update with video of the ballasttank in action and more pictures on the WTC, which is (except the sealing) soon ready.

Regards Sebastian And KRISSELURING
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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2011, 07:46:19 pm »





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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2011, 04:22:20 pm »

Hello everybody!
We've come a long way, but still have quite a lot more to do.
We have to give a big shout out too Elvis from Megamods in Helsingborg, Sweden.
Even though he had no previous experience with submarines, he decided to help us to get a cheap and smart solution for our submarine.
Not only did he help us to come up with a smart solution, Elvis also sponsored us a bit with the financing!

Visit their website:

www.megamods.se

Also a big Thanks to:
Carlsson & Möllerfor sponsoring us with PVC Disc
Holmströms AB for sponsoring us with PVC pipe
GPA-Plast for sponsoring us with PVC pipe and also giving us a tour and showing their production line.


Well, here comes some pictures.


WTC with the ballasttank


The 4 servos for the X-rudder. Controlrods not attached yet.


Pushrods outlets and in the pipe above will the hose for the ballasttank outlet be.
In the middle have we kept one hole open for electrical wires to the tower servo and the engine"room" etc.



Ballasttank.


Ballasttank. Bow direction


Ballasttank. Stern direction


Gearing for the ballasttank. The gearwheel and pushpole is missing (at Kristofer's house).


Hose for water to come out/in to the ballasttank. (one more hole will be drilled)


Receiver and the 2 servos that will mechanically control the ballasttank and the propeller engine.

V-tail mixer for the X-rudder to work properly in all 4 directions.



Stern direction.


Bow direction.


PVC pipe that will be used to make the outer-hull.


A bit tighter then we originally planed...


Which engine do you people think we should use?
Both work, the bigger got a lot more juice but also weights more.

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swedishprojectbuilders

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Re: Swedes building Submarine with no previous experience!
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2011, 11:22:59 pm »

Video of servos, not much. But atleast something!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDl90i1YcAw
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