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Author Topic: WOOD BURNING STOVES  (Read 11287 times)

Patternmaker

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WOOD BURNING STOVES
« on: November 07, 2010, 12:42:09 pm »

What are your views on wood burning stoves, two houses just up the road  have had them installed, unfortunately with a prevailing wind our garden is completely consumed by the smoke from these stoves, we cant hang out washing and have to shut all our windows and doors, I have mentioned this to the neighbours concerned, they said they have been installed within the current regulations and this is not a smoke free zone.
Having looked up the regulations for installation I could see why we have the smoke problem, the chimney should terminate at ridge level, both these chimneys are at eves level, I pointed this out to them, basically their answer was, Tough!
Other neighbours have also complained about the smoke from these stoves.

There are also regulations on what you can burn on these stoves, now we get chainsaws going everyday cutting up everything and anything that will burn.

I am all for saving money on heating costs, but with the initial cost of the stove, installation and unless it is connected to your original heating system, how long would it take to recoup the costs
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Colin Bishop

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 12:46:36 pm »

Check with the Building Control Officer at your local council.
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 01:21:29 pm »

most houses in Finland are fitted with woodburning stoves and fireplaces and we wouldn't be without ours

As our wood comes from our own land we basically have free heating (minus petrol for chainsaw, tractor etc)
Cost wise they are not cheap so if you are paying for logs and for them to be delivered then I cant see how it would be cost effective in the short term.

We have strict guidelines here on what can and can't be burned with random checks involving the analysis of a soot sample from inside the chimney.  With big fines if you are caught burning the wrong thing
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Wasyl

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2010, 01:37:00 pm »

I have a woodburning stove,8kw,which also heats our water for washing only,for our central heating we have calor gas,
the woodburner is only cost effective because we get our wood for nothing,..i.e.hard wood logs from local tree surgeon and felled Elms that were diseased,...but if we were to be paying for the wood,then it would be a very expensive way of heating the house,
As for the exit height of the flue or chimney,..this has to be above the ridge line of the house, to ensure that the smoke is dispersed by the wind/updraught,if it is lower then it is against building regs,...so,as Colin says,get in touch with building control at your local council ..i,m sure they,ll be happy to help,

Wullie
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madrob

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2010, 02:06:59 pm »

I have a log burning stove, in the room its in its the only form of heating.and it costs a fortune to run, if i buy the small bags of logs like you see at garages it doesn't even last a day.
i buy wood by the pallet from a local guy, the pallet fills a 8ft x 6 ft shed and is gone in 6 weeks.......i mixed in a little coke last year which seems to slow it down at bit
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dreadnought72

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2010, 02:34:04 pm »

I had a giant Jotul stove in my last house - a beautiful thing. Logs cost me around 40/60 a tonne (this was in Central Scotland near vast amounts of woodland) and it was way cheaper than the off-mains gas that was the alternative heating supply. It was difficult to burn more than about 30kg of logs a day on it. 2/3 a day for a toasty house during the winter felt like an absolute bargain to me.

Andy, now stuck on mains gas.
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Patternmaker

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2010, 02:52:43 pm »

Check with the Building Control Officer at your local council.

I have already been down this route Colin, I was told because the stoves have been installed in extensions with a flat roofs  away from the main house The regulations for flue height do not apply.

I also contacted environmental health department given a form to fill in of dates and times of the problem for a 1 month period, I suggested that they come and see the problem for themselves, No must complete the form before any action can be considered, I then suggested what they could do with the form.

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mike_victoriabc

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2010, 03:14:00 pm »

I would guess that the wood they are burning isn't dry. Dry wood and the adjustment set correctly on the chimney - should be clean out of the chimney. Perhaps a gentlle nudge on their burning technique might help.
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Wasyl

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2010, 03:39:40 pm »

Judging from what you said,about their responce,to your last encounter with them,..I doubt if a gentle nudge would have any effect,.maybe if the nudge was with a log,then perhaps they,d see sense,....as for the council,they are wanting you to keep a log of all the smoke ..days.that you encounter,...they might even offer you a sensor that records the levels of smoke that is being ejected into the atmosphere....just a thought,if you live in the city or suburbs,then it is more than likely that you are in a smoke-free zone,...if you arein a rural location,then its different

Wullie,
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Patternmaker

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 03:50:01 pm »

Wullie, unfortunately for some reason our area is not a smoke free zone, other areas close to us are, with the councils attitude and lack of funds because of their travel expenses I don't think they would offer a sensor.
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oldiron

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 04:37:50 pm »

  You may find this web site of assistance with regard to wood burning stoves: http://www.woodheat.org/chimneys/chimneys.htm

  The chimney should be above the roof line. The reasons are indicated in the web site.
 

John
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Colin Bishop

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 04:48:51 pm »

But, as Patternmaker has said, they are above the roofline of the extension in which they are mounted and far enough away from the main house for the main house roof height not to apply. I would imagine that to cure the problem the existing flues would have to be extended with guy wires etc. which I don't suppose the owners want to do. It seems as if the only hope is that the stoves become too expensive to run.

Otherwise, wait until they are on holiday and squirt some expanding foam down the flue....
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gondolier88

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 04:53:33 pm »

Hi Mick,

You may want to check, but in gas insatllations with condensing boilers we always have to make sure the flues are terminated the regulation distances from and flammable object and opening, however, just as important is the 'nuisance factor' with the pluming from condensing boilers, if a neighbour complained we'd have to BY LAW move the termination somewhere else suitable, unless this was impossible, in which case we'd have to look to other alternatives.

Gas installations have far more reg's governing them, but I just wonder whether the nuisance factor governs solid fuel install's too- HETAS (the solid fuel equivalent of Gas Safe/Corgi) are the people you need to ask, and if you got the names of the installers, who will most likely be members of HETAS, then you may just get somewhere.

Greg
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boatmadman

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2010, 05:43:11 pm »

If its any consolation to you, if they are using any and every bit of wood they can get there hands on, they are storing up a problem for themselves. Wood burner flues need to be run at sufficient temperature to prevent condensation and deposit of tars, which ultimately can lead to flue fires. In fact, there is a recommendation that these fires should be run at full output for 1 - 2 hours a day to minimise tar build up.

Stovax specifically state not to use pallet wood or similar due to preservatives that have been used, which can deposit as I said above and lead to problems.

I have a Stovax multifuel burner and we love it. We use a mix of coal and wood, most of the wood comes from my garden, or friends so it helps costs.

I am now looking to try compressed wood blocks as they have 1.5 to 2 times the heat content of logs, and come in at less than 10% moisture.

Ian
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StarLocAdhesives/FiveStar

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2010, 05:48:39 pm »

Ive just bought a house in eastern europe , everyone has woodpowered heating, cooking etc here as the electricity goes off for days on end quite often , you cant notice the smoke much at all.

Ive just had 20 cubic meters of wood delivered, mainly oak its now stacked up to dry ,it was delivered in september , it wont be any good till at least next winter , it doesnt smoke much once dry, once the wood is stacked for a couple of years before its burnt, if you burn it wet it stinks and smokes everywhere,

Its a good job im not living here over the winter as im not paying for dry wood at 10 times the price of just chopped, and it gets down to -25C here the bills would be rediculous

But back in the UK..... the gits over the road burn all sorts of rubbish on the fire, usualy pallets..... and i can stink it in the house it blows everywhere round the road, we are in a smoke free area!
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Jonty

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2010, 06:43:15 pm »

  Fine in a place like France where there's a plentiful supply of hardwood at sensible prices, not so good here. Softwood, wet or dry, is dead loss. It has little calorific value and, as already mentioned, clarts up the flue.

  In happier days, I spent a month in Pahalgam in Kashmir where they burned deodar pine on the stoves in the guest house. It smelled wonderful, but they had to dismantle the flues every couple of weeks to knock out an inch thick layer of resin.
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Patternmaker

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2010, 02:14:39 pm »

Hi Mick,

You may want to check, but in gas insatllations with condensing boilers we always have to make sure the flues are terminated the regulation distances from and flammable object and opening, however, just as important is the 'nuisance factor' with the pluming from condensing boilers, if a neighbour complained we'd have to BY LAW move the termination somewhere else suitable, unless this was impossible, in which case we'd have to look to other alternatives.

Gas installations have far more reg's governing them, but I just wonder whether the nuisance factor governs solid fuel install's too- HETAS (the solid fuel equivalent of Gas Safe/Corgi) are the people you need to ask, and if you got the names of the installers, who will most likely be members of HETAS, then you may just get somewhere.

Greg

Greg, I know this is off topic this is my experience of Corgi/ Gas safe fitters After getting several quotes I had a new condensing boiler fitted 3 years ago By a reputable Corgi registered company.
White van man arrived on the day, when he opened the doors I could not believe what I saw, all his tools and fittings were strewn all over the floor of his van, thinking this is not a good  Oman. The fitter left my house in a filthy state, tripped the electric 5 times and blew up my digital room thermostat, I had to show him how to wire a new one, I asked him he had a part P certificate, he didn't know what it was, I had to remind him to bleed and balance the radiators and put additive in the storage tank as per quote. the last straw for me was next morning I smelt gas, immediately turned it off called the gas company the engineer found one of the connections from the boiler was only hand tight, I asked him to give me a written report
which I passed on to Corgi with notes of all the other problems with the installation, they immediately withdrew the companies Certificate.
What concerned me was if this had happened to an old couple not realising what the consequences could have been. 




My thanks to Wullie for his valuable information, much appreciated

Mick













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dodgy geezer

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2010, 04:23:50 pm »

If the installation has been made in accordance with appropriate building regs etc, then you won't get very far complaining through the Building Control Officer and trying to apply regulations.

However, you can certainly complain about nuisance and smoke in general. Nuisance from smoke emanating from premises is an offence under the Environmental Protection Act 1990. I would address your complaint to the Public Health section of the council rather than the planning officials, because so long as the planning regs are satisfied the planning department will be happy.

Smoke nuisance is usually the way that neighbours who have frequent bonfires are addressed. The issue will usually devolve on how frequent the bonfires are, since if the Public Health Team is to take action against offenders they must be satisfied of a nuisance in law. For example, the bonfire must significantly interfere with the enjoyment of your garden or house.  This may occur if you regularly need to close doors and windows or are regularly prevented from spending time in the garden. Occasional bonfires are usually considered to be acceptable.

In your case the frequency seems to be easily provable, since a wood-burning stove is intended for regular use. Your neighbour's defence will be that the installation complies with appropriate regulations, but I do not think that this trumps a public health issue. However, that will be a matter for discussion between the relevant council departments....



   
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dreadnought72

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2010, 04:43:47 pm »

Useful information, DG.

As a resident living about three miles from the largest landfill in Scotland, possible the UK and maybe even Europe, we - if the wind's blowing the wrong way - someimes find the atmosphere caustically miasmic.  :((

I'll look into the Environmental Protection Act 1990.

Andy <cough> <peg on nose>
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pugwash

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2010, 05:43:39 pm »

Andy, That is no way to describe Glasgow!!!
Geoff
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Wasyl

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2010, 06:49:50 pm »

I can think of many other ways to describe the former "City of Culture".....but then i,d probably get banned, {-)...so I,ll just get back on topic,

with these dark nights Mick it will be lot easier for you to detect any unburnt material,....therefore keeping a Log,no pun intended,will be a lot easier

Wullie
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polaris

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2010, 07:44:03 pm »


Dear Paternmaker,

One thing that is pertinent is that if they are burning 'all sorts of wood', is that if they are burning treated wood ('preserved wood'), the smoke/vapor/fumes will contain various concentrations of arsenic, etc.. Treated wood should not be burnt - v.partic. in the circs. you advise.

Regards, Bernard
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dreadnought72

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2010, 08:31:17 pm »

I was speaking to a fencer not so long ago who said that arsenic (in the form of CCA) had been illegal in treated wood for some years.

Andy
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Colin H

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2010, 10:26:50 pm »



Andy,

You correct about treated wood, however no one knows how old the wood that is being burnt is.


Bit like lead pipe for plumbing, been banned for years on potable water. But still miles of it in situ delivering potable water to thousands of homes.


Colin H.
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Wasyl

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2010, 10:40:42 pm »

you,d be amazed at how much lead there is in old painted wood that ends up as kindling, and not forgetting the odd pair of Doc Martins,...milk cartons, plastic and any other house hold rubbish that will burn,...especially if you live in an area where there is a levy on extra black bags ,that have inadvertantly been put out with the sole wheelis bin,....if it looks like it,ll burn ,then in it goes,

Wullie
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