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Author Topic: WOOD BURNING STOVES  (Read 11286 times)

polaris

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2010, 12:28:19 am »


Dear All,

Whilst all that has been said about lead pipe matters and old/past wood treatments certainly and indeed holds true, I have reason to believe that still - and until such time as the Environ. Agency Regs. might prove to contradict - any treated timber may not be burnt unless in a controlled and proper manner due to the chemicals involved. I cite a case where the EA recently stopped the burning of waste 'wood' on a building site. Nothing to do with me I hasily add... we always properly skip all our waste away. Can't afford to do otherwise these days... even at 160 per tonne... little wonder why some fly tip though isn't it?

Regards, Bernard
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Patternmaker

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2010, 03:08:04 pm »

Lucky today the wind is from the north, just missed getting a photo of the black smoke, the top of the flue terminates about 10ft below the ridge, the road and houses opposite got it all today. Other neighbours are complaining but not to the people responsible, I suggested that we all approached them, but as usual they don't want to get involved. Gutless wonders springs to mind.

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dreadnought72

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2010, 03:21:50 pm »

I suggested that we all approached them...

Yeah!

Like this?



Andy
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gondolier88

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2010, 05:22:21 pm »

 {-) {-) {-) Look at the state of the top of their flue- it will soon be locked and they will have to get it swept, once theyv'e done this a few times they will start burning seasoned firewood!!!!!

Greg
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gondolier88

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2010, 05:22:27 pm »

 {-) {-) {-) Look at the state of the top of their flue- it will soon be locked and they will have to get it swept, once theyv'e done this a few times they will start burning seasoned firewood!!!!!

Greg
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2010, 06:19:18 pm »

{-) {-) {-) Look at the state of the top of their flue- it will soon be locked and they will have to get it swept, once theyv'e done this a few times they will start burning seasoned firewood!!!!!

Greg

I think maybe they have been burning old tyres
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Colin H

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2010, 10:27:56 pm »



Bernard,

I certainly did not wish to gain say you and having read my post again I can see I caused the confusion. :embarrassed: :embarrassed:


I was trying rather clumsily to point out that no one in the area knows how old or what type of wood is being burnt and therefore should take great care.

The reference to lead pipe was allthough it is banned it is still there and in use just as our friends could be burning treated timber.

One of my clients is a large timber mill (very handy at times). Their saw dust is collected and taken away for reuse. It as to be certified as untreated and all loads are logged.

Colin H.
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brianB6

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2010, 11:21:46 pm »

From Downunder
We could not do without our Coonarra stove.   We had 3 large gum trees blown down in the last storm and they will come in very handy next winter. :-))
Chopping wood is very good for the muscles, even using a chain saw %%
I am so glad my daughter knows how to use it {-)
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Umi_Ryuzuki

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2010, 11:40:31 pm »

Lucky today the wind is from the north, just missed getting a photo of the black smoke, the top of the flue terminates about 10ft below the ridge, the road and houses opposite got it all today. Other neighbours are complaining but not to the people responsible, I suggested that we all approached them, but as usual they don't want to get involved. Gutless wonders springs to mind.



Rule of thumb, is that the height of the flue opening should be 2'-0" (610mm) higher than
 any part of building within 10'-0" (3048mm) horizontal radius.

So if the ridge is more than 10 feet away from the chimney, then can be lower than the ridge...
If the ridge is as close as 9'-11 7/8", then the chimney would need to be 2 feet higher than the ridge of the adjacent structure.

.
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Circlip

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2010, 10:55:49 am »

Hasn't been as bad this year, but the new hobby (To Brits) of burning food in the garden has the same effect. Causes an increase in food poisoning  records in the casualty departments too :-))

  Regards  Ian
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polaris

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2010, 11:16:14 am »


Dear Colin,

No, I don't think you said anything clumsily at all, just as it is, and I think you are perfectly correct in assuming that if it looks anything like wood they will burn it without a seconds thought. With black smoke issuing from time to time we all know they must be burning 'other things' as well (maybe mixing cheap as chips coal also + whatever else), so, and as someone else has said, if it looks as if it will burn they will simply throw it in.

Always a difficult problem anything re neighbours who are not quite as considerate as they could be. As you will know anyway, I suppose the best first move would be to ask your local Council's Enviro. Health Dept. Officer 'what is what'? Whether they would have a look themselves or suggest passing on to the EA I don't know. The Planning Enforcement Officer and maybe Building Control will probably only have issue if the whole chimney is a new addition, and it does not comply to whatever Regs. apply to your area and the type of prop. it is part of - very partic. the height of the thing... it doesn't sound right.

The Enviro. Agency will look into such things if they consider the matter a persistent nuisance/possible breach of Regs., and, due to the Freedom of Info. Act, are restricted in divulging how any matter has been brought to their attention. They definitely don't take kindly to people operating gnrl. incinerators in Urban areas!

I hope this matter sorts itself out soon for you.

Regards, Bernard
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dodgy geezer

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2010, 12:24:22 pm »



I also contacted environmental health department given a form to fill in of dates and times of the problem for a 1 month period, I suggested that they come and see the problem for themselves, No must complete the form before any action can be considered, I then suggested what they could do with the form.



I do not think that Environmental Health can justify spending your money on an investigation without some degree of certainty that there is a regular issue, rather than a one-off problem. They may need to plan to send someone out, and would obviously like to do that when there is a good chance of observing the smoke. So a 4-week history of emissions will be very useful to them, and if you cannot provide this they may well conclude that the problem is not serious. 

Photographs would also be very useful, though it is probably quite difficult to image smoke effectively....
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Netleyned

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2010, 12:42:09 pm »

You can always add a bit more smoke with some good imaging software ;D ;D ;D

Ned
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polaris

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2010, 01:00:37 pm »


Dear Dodgy Geezer,

You are quite right of course. As irritating as the paperwork is, it's the only way EH can gather 'proof'/'evidence'. Whilst the smoke from the chimney must be irritating for those around, it might be best to focus on the chimney itself for a brief while - to determine correct height/correct place etc.. A frustrating situation to live around.

Ned... LOL, that was a very naughty suggestion!!! :}

Regards, Bernard
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Colin H

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2010, 04:06:40 pm »



I have just discovered that solid fuel appliance's are covered by the same regs as gas appliances.


Building Regulations Document `J`.

A couple of points which might help.

(a)The termination must be 2300mm from any weather surface of terminate above that surface, heights vary according to the type of surface. A weather surface is defined as a pitched roof or a wall.

(b) Doc `J` page 27 para 1.52 contains the following sentence.

"Flues discharging at low level, near boundaries should do so at positions where the building owner will always be able to ensure safe flue gas dispersal"

This point is relevant to all types of fuel.

Bernard is also correct about the burning of treated timber. It is specifically forbidden.

Hope this helps Colin H.
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gondolier88

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2010, 04:39:38 pm »

If you take photos of their chimney, make sure it is only of their chimney, or when this comes out in the wash they can sue for invasion of privacy!

Greg
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dodgy geezer

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2010, 06:15:33 pm »

If you take photos of their chimney, make sure it is only of their chimney, or when this comes out in the wash they can sue for invasion of privacy!

Owners of property do not have the right to prevent someone taking pictures of their property from a public place. If you are actually on private property, of course, the owner may forbid photography or place any conditions they wish on it.

It is illegal to harass somebody, and taking photographs of their house could be part of a 'course of conduct' which could amount to harassment. But this must be a 'course of conduct' - at least twice, therefore, to count under this heading.

It is likely that a court would consider the use of a long lens to take a picture of someone in a private place, such as inside their home, to be an invasion of privacy, infringing article 8 of the European Convention on Human rights. But this is unlikely to be the case for an inanimate object, and certainly not for an inanimate object like a chimney, which is in full public view and has no reasonable expectation of privacy. In general, if you stay away from photographing people (and especially children) you are safe from any accusations of invasion of privacy. Gondolier is quite right to add his warning, though note that it is usually the 'publishing' of such pictures which causes the breach of privacy rather than just the taking of them...

There are various other restrictions on photography in some public places - Royal Parks, London Squares and the London Underground spring to mind, and restrictions may be enforced in some places under various items of Terrorism legislation. If there are certain rare nesting birds on the flue it would be illegal to disturb them under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and close-up photography might therefore be illegal.

So unless the offending flue is in a prohibited place under the Official Secrets Act 1911 (as amended), a wildlife preserve, or on certain other special buildings such as a court I think you are safe. The only other restrictive circumstances I can imagine are if reproductions of the flue are controlled by copyright, or if the flue has partially-burnt bank-notes coming out of it (photography of bank-notes is specifically forbidden under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981 (section 18 (1)). Apart from that, you are in the clear....    :-)) :-)) :-))
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Patternmaker

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2010, 03:15:44 pm »

At last some progress, evidently 4 other neighbours have complained to EHA who came to see the situation for themselves, the 2 responsible came to see me, very irate as I was the only one who had complained in person, very heated discussion they said that the stoves had been installed within the current regulations. I asked them if the EHA saw your stocks of material that you burn, Pallets, Painted wood and freshly cut trees and anything else that will burn, at that point they left.

The EHA have contacted me stating that the installations will be checked to see if they comply with current regulations and also monitor what is being burnt, if either regulation is breached they will take immediate action. 

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Colin Bishop

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2010, 03:42:51 pm »

I think it is a poor reflection on today's society that although your neighbours are well aware they are causing a nuisance and are also burning things they shouldn't (assuming they read the instructions that came with their stoves), instead of facing up to the problem for which they are responsible, they elect to denigrate you for complaining about it. Unfortunately this sort of selfishness seems to be typical these days.

Colin
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Patternmaker

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2010, 04:27:39 pm »

Yes Colin, having lived here for over 30 years with no problems from any of my neighbours it's a shame this has happened, but there was no way this situation could continue, because others would not speak up for themselves I'm the scapegoat.

Thanks to all for your suggestions and information.

Mick


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Circlip

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2010, 04:58:54 pm »

Quote
because others would not speak up for themselves I'm the scapegoat.

  Sadly Mick that's always the rub.

 A few years ago when the Chemical firm at the bottom of my garden caught fire, the neigbours had their hands out trying to claim compo quick enough, but in the years preceeding none attended the three monthly meetings with me  trying to make the company aware of the possibility of a fire problem. Typical cavalier attitude by company at a meeting two weeks before the "Happening" and typical whinging by neighbours when being evacuated.

  Wonder how many will tell  "We" sorted the problem.??

  Regards  Ian.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #46 on: November 12, 2010, 05:17:10 pm »


 they said that the stoves had been installed within the current regulations....



As predicted, their defence is that the items have been installed withing current regulations - your position should be that that is not the point, you are complaining about an environmental hazard, NOT a breach of regulations. As far as we know, there is no problem with regulations compliance, but that is NOT where the problem is.

Don't let the council claim that because the installation conforms to regulations there is no problem - you need to stress that this is not a regulations breach but an environmental hazard and likely to be continual due to the permanent installation.... 
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polaris

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #47 on: November 12, 2010, 06:42:23 pm »


Dear Patternmaker,

I am pleased you are making headway... not an easy thing to do in this circs..

Once you have the EA recognising there is a potential problem, well, this is half the battle. The neighbours concerned will probably be more careful what they burn now... well, they would be silly not to do so anyway. Unfortunately you had to say what you did, and it sounds as if you did it in a balanced and good way: obviously the neighbours concerned would be a bit miffed, but they must understand that they have to consider others -it is surprising how inconsiderate many people are to their neighbours these days.

Good luck. I hope all sorts itself out for you asap.. Maybe you might let us know how everything pans out in the end please?

Regards, Bernard
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Colin H

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #48 on: November 13, 2010, 04:25:30 pm »



I personally believe that there has been a breech of regulation, if you read my post above.


The owner obviously cannot always endure safe flue gas dispersal therefore they are in breech of approved `Document J`

Colin H.
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polaris

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Re: WOOD BURNING STOVES
« Reply #49 on: November 13, 2010, 07:01:06 pm »


Dear Colin,

Your sub. email not being extant, I still all the same concur. It is however a matter of proving same, and this is where the problem lies. Proof is all, and unfortunately proof must be with the accuser... (proven until guilty and all that), so much for the innocent until proven guilty, but such is the way things go eh.... I firmly believe that many things should be the other way round, but our PC world etc. should make it the other way round in many cases. Oh well... if only... in the meantime we all have to suffer unjustices and put up with it... come the Revolution!!!

Regards, Bernard
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