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[Flatlander]

Hi, all.

I'm a complete novice; I did the usual Airfix kits 40 (+!) years ago, and I'm quite good at DIY (larger-scale, house size) so I have tools for cutting out cupboards and new windows in brick walls, and I would like to start model boat-building, obviously toe-dipping to start with.

Can any more experienced member (ie, everyone) please advise:

I want a static, sailing boat: after browsing, Caldercraft Sherbourne looks good and seems to get thumbs-up on the Forum. Is it suitable as a first model, and can you suggest alternatives? I want to keep to an initial budget of £100-ish, in case I mess it up totally.

What tools do I need? I see basic toolkits at about £20 - OK for starters? What individual tools should I start with if the kits aren't a good way to go?

I gather I should have a baseboard/shipyard to build on. If the Sherbourne is 500mm long as advertised, what size board? And made of what (MDF?)

Are there any recommended instruction sites? I've found several but I'm open to recommendations!

Lastly, any helpful comments welcome!

[doorframe]

Hi Flatlander.

Sorry I can't help specifically as I'm a total newbie myself. You're obviously budget conscious like me and I think as newbies that should be our main concern. There's many a train of thought on here regarding starting with an RTR, or a kit, or even a scratch build. I've decided to start with a scratch purely due to economics, as there are free plans all over the web and (not including radio and elecs etc) my chosen build will stand me in at mere pennies so the mistakes I am guarenteed to make won't be costly ones!

Whatever way you go...good luck, and I'm sure some of the seasoned builders will be along soon with some quality advise.

Oh, and welcome to Mayhem

Roy

[tonyH]

Hi Flatlander,

One thing that you may want to consider is starting with the 'nice' bits, rather than the toil of making the hull (The nasty bit!)

Some of the smaller kits from makers like Mamoli/Corel or Amati, come with compressed wood hulls which will need tidying up and then you have all the masting, rigging, decking and all the fittings to sort but they do save the hull making which I reckon can be the most problematical part. With a bit of imagination, adding hammock nets etc.  they can make up into very good 'library shelf' models. You could then practice hull making separately and get a more complex model one for phase 2.
The attached pics were both ships from Euromodels who seem to specialise in period stuff.

Tony

PS Sorry about the dust

[Flatlander]

Thanks for the ideas, tonyH. How do I tell which are "compressed wood" hulls? I haven't come across the term before, and the company/retailer sites don't use it.

Your pics look good (I didn't see the dust!) - what boat are they of?

Also, IS the plank-on-frame hull that more difficult than the hull? I thought from my point of ignorance that rigging and masting would be equally difficult?

Owen

[tonyH]

Hi Owen,

The dust is a fact of life unless you put the models in glass cases!

The one with the smooth hull is, I think, discontinued but the other one with the Clinker hull is a lugger, La Coureur, from Amati. Beware because there is another model by Corel of the same ship and that's plank on frame. If you have a look at www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk under Amati you'll find La Coureur and an American schooner Roger B Taney which have the solid hull. It could be worth contacting www.euromodels.co.uk as well because they seem to specialise as I mentioned before.

As far as planking is concerned, it's not difficult but if you imagine trying to plank a rugby ball you'll get an idea of the work you may have to do on each plank. It can be easy to get bored and I think that it's the hull that can be the part you can be most dissatisfied with when you're starting out. It's also the part, in my opinion, where camouflaging the c***-ups can be the most difficult.

Masting is really just a matter of sanding dowel to a taper and cutting it to size and rigging is (almost) connect point a to point b using this string. I jest but most of the kits have pretty comprehensive instructions. Also it's relatively easy to spot the errors because the system just would not work.

Decking can be as easy or hard as you want to make it. You can use a sheet of ply and a biro or you can do it properly, using individual planks and, for example, black paper or string for the caulking. plus the fact that there were definite rules as to the
layout of the planks and the way they were cut into each other. They were certainly not random.

On the other hand, outside the basic rules and formulae, there were no plans or photos of what is right so a French lugger or an American privateer could be sky blue pink and no-one could tell you otherwise with any certainty!

In other works, ignoring the hull planking, there is still a lot of 'bits' that you can do to your model to make it a fair representation of the real thing and you can still practice the planking very cheaply in the meanwhile using some of the free plans in Model Boats, some cheap ply for the frames, some cardboard from a cereal packet for the planks and a stanley knife/scalpel.

Best of Luck and welcome to the madhouse!

Tony

[Flatlander]

TonyH: thanks for the advice - I'm still thinking of a plank-on-frame model, probably for the challenge (!) but also for historical realism, but I've had a look for the models you suggest - they're described as "resin" hulls rather than wood, presumably updated?

Your other bit of advice has been obeyed! I've got some card, plans and glue for a practice planked hull, which will be of the Billings Will Everard, but using corrugated cardboard, and cornflake packets! It won't float very well, but I can practice, think, and look around!

Doorframe: what are you building? Presumably free plan from the web - can you recommend any in particular?

Owen

[tonyH]

Good Luck Owen,

The planking route is certainly the best way to go and once you've got the bit between your teeth there's an infinite number of ships you can build.

Tony

[doorframe]

Hi Flatlander...

This is my 1st (almost started) build. It's been scaled up to be approx 30". Hope to have it ready for next year's Oct/Nov Pikeing long weekend on the Broads at Wayford Bridge.

Roy

[chingdevil]

Owen

Get your self a decent Stanley knife not one with snap off blades as they tend to flex, also a good straight edge and steel rule. A cutting mat would be a good idea, if you start cutting parts on a piece of wood the cut marks soon become a problem. Look around for other tools, some of the cheap supermarkets do tools that are OK for beginners.


Brian

[Mark47]

Owen

Get your self a decent Stanley knife not one with snap off blades as they tend to flex, also a good straight edge and steel rule. A cutting mat would be a good idea, if you start cutting parts on a piece of wood the cut marks soon become a problem. Look around for other tools, some of the cheap supermarkets do tools that are OK for beginners.


Brian

Just to add to this good advice...........

A set of needle files,

 http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/mantua_8301_files.html

some notice board pins (great cheap way of holding planks down whilst glue dries without the expense of proper planking clamps). It's also worth getting reputable Stanley blades, not superstore own brands (the own brands tend to snap at the very tip). Another thing I've found invaluable for all my models is a modeling mitre box (a wee aluminium one should be £5-£10). Second item down on page.

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/razor-saws.html

[tonyH]

As Brian and Mark have put plus, possibly,

Standard Swan Morton scalpel handle and probably 10A blades for the thinner wood, tweezers for the rigging and a Davids type mini plane for the plank edges plus clothes pegs, masking tape, post-office elastic bands, map pins etc.etc. to hold stuff in place while the glue dries. Some decent sand paper in medium and fine grades. Electric drill to help you to sand the masts and spars down to a taper (experiment first!)
You could do with a bit of runny superglue to form bodkins in rigging cord when you're threading it through the blocks.

There's not really a lot to buy to start with. You'll soon find out what suits you and if you look on sites such as Cornwall or Westbourne or the hobby suppliers like Squires of Bognor you'll get the ideas.

Tony

[Flatlander]

Thanks, all! I have some of the tools already, but I have some new ones on the wish-list, notably a mitre-box and plane, I'll hit the local model shop next week!

I've downloaded and printed out a couple of (free) card "kits", I'm using them for practice before cutting wood. I've bought a Billings "Marie Jeanne" from the local model shop (mainly because they only had three kits, they concentrate on aircraft, but they had some good advice in general terms, and at least I could see the kit before buying!). It looks fairly straightforward until the rigging part; I'm hoping to get a bit more experience at cutting and gluing small wooden parts before starting the masts and rigging.

tonyH: you say about using an electric drill to help taper masts - is that just using a sanding attachment to reduce the hand-sanding effort?

Doorframe: I can't load your image for some reason, but from the small-size image on the forum it looks like a plan. I'm not ready to build off-plan yet, I need the reassurance of a kit, so I've gone a bit less economic, but good luck!! It'll be interesting to compare notes as newbies - the Billings instructions are at http://www.billingboats.com/instructions/BB580%20Marie%20Jeanne_Instruction.pdf if you want to check them out!

[Circlip]

You might have gone to this site for your first "wood" boat :- http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/

 Loads of freebie downloads and constructional articles too.

 In the past, Billings Kits have caused even experienced modellers to rip their hair out, but at least the hull planking is Obeche and not Mahogany as in the originals. Err, your going to need Clamps not pins for holding the planks.

  Regards  Ian.

 If Billings have supplied you with a bag of brass nails to fix the planks to the formers, you need to flatten the points to stop the planks from splitting when nailing through them.

[tonyH]

Hi Owen,

My way of tapering masts is to (a) cut dowel overlength (b) place in drill (c) turn on drill at low(ish) speed and (d) hold medium grade sandpaper round dowel while moving same along dowel towards end. If you start the movement closer to the non-drill end each time you will get a taper which you can finish in the same way with finer sandpaper. You'll probably also need to give it a final sand along the length or you may find a lovely spiral pattern on the mast as and when you apply stain or varnish!

With (sorry again) practice you can get the taper you want and you can also get the double taper of the yards.

PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL because if you use too fast a drill speed or hold the sandpaper too tightly you can get the dowel ripping the sandpaper from your hand. It can also get quite hot at times from the friction so just practice with scrap dowel first.

You should also also borrow a decent masting/rigging book from your local library if poss because the majority of masts and yards were quite complicated animals.

Tony

[Colin Bishop]

If your masts are not too long then a lot of effort can be avoided by going into one of those shops which sells cheap art materials such as 'The Works'. There you will find very reasonably priced sets of artist brushes with long tapered handles in a range of sizes. They make super masts as they are already sealed and accept a top coat of paint. Just cut off the bristle bit and there you are.

Colin

[RaaArtyGunner]

If your masts are not too long then a lot of effort can be avoided by going into one of those shops which sells cheap art materials such as 'The Works'. There you will find very reasonably priced sets of artist brushes with long tapered handles in a range of sizes. They make super masts as they are already sealed and accept a top coat of paint. Just cut off the bristle bit and there you are.

Colin

Need more lateral thinking stuff like this 

[tonyH]

Just watch out for the ones that have 'Rowney' or 'Made in China' embossed in them

[Flatlander]

Circlip: thanks for comments; I can't open your link though. I still can't open Doorframe's image either, do I need a waterproof Operating System on my computer? Microsoft Portholes, perhaps?

Billings don't include nails, thanks for the hint though; the planks are to be glued on but I haven't started yet (they don't mention pinning the planks but I probably will anyway).

I agree, having got a bit deeper, Billings instructions aren't as good as they looked online: I've found one piece misnumbered, and one piece is 6x4x550 instead of 3x4x500 as on the parts list! (It's a strengthener, inside and out of view, so a bit of opening of slots and it's fine, and no, there's no 6x4x550 on the plans anywhere). They're workable with forethought and dry runs, though, and the parts are well cut and presented so I'll continue.

tonyH, thanks for advice on spar-tapering - still a fair way ahead!

[RaaArtyGunner]

Circlip: thanks for comments; I can't open your link though

Am also having problems with link.

 I still can't open Doorframe's image either, do I need a waterproof Operating System on my computer? Microsoft Portholes, perhaps?
No, Turn PC upside down  as image open's down here

[Circlip]

Might have been a T'internet thing Rarty, seems to be working again. FYO it's Dodgy's Ea Ze Site.

  Regards  Ian.

[Flatlander]

OK, Circlip, the link worked today (although not Doorframe's image yet!). I hate to say it, it makes me feel ancient, but I remember Veron, KeilKraft and the way those ads were laid out in 1950s/60s; my interest then was more aero than marine, but the ads seem to be a generic style! I remember electronics and radio magazine ads feeling the same - I lusted after a radio kit, which had one valve (basic, cost as I remember 12/6d) or two (top-end, out of my price bracket!). And I think you could buy the odd transistor?

Progress: started the boat, frames and deck planking so far. Can't quite see how the counter fits in, but a bit of hold it together and see will happen after deck-planking has fully dried.

[RaaArtyGunner]

Might have been a T'internet thing Rarty, seems to be working again. FYO it's Dodgy's Ea Ze Site.

  Regards  Ian.

Thanks Ian, working fine now 

[Flatlander]

Progress report: I've started building the Marie Jeanne. Planking was, er, OK; the round-out (correct term?) at the counter wasn't too severe, and after use of steaming and hot-water-soaking and careful bending, I managed to plank without breaking any! Attached photo shows the end result, ready for final sand and paint: I'm hoping to leave the planks' texture slightly visible through the paint, as working boats usually were in the original; the basic shape is smooth, but close inspection will show a couple of dents in the curves, which I am claiming are the result of a hard working life faithfully modelled......

For a beginner, the kit is accessible; it needs some critical thought before actually gluing some bits, and there are errors. The deck gratings are shown on Billings' photo as coming over the rear deckhouse, which has a sliding hatch on top: the gratings aren't high enough to clear the hatch, and even if they were, they'd block the hatch! I've shortened them to stop in front of the hatch. Also, it would be easier to drill the hole for the rudder post, through the keel, before decking and planking, for accuracy and ease of access.

Some bits are very delicate, and need very careful cutting/sanding/attaching, but that's probably normal, just news to me!

Instructions are inadequate for beginners/advanced beginners: there are reasonable plans, but words are limited to "Affix the other parts as shown in the drawing", and the drawings aren't clear enough for that, and there are inadequate photos. The photos on the box are clear, but don't match the parts in the box, and they're only of the starboard side - there is nothing of the port side, so my anchor fairlead is the result of educated guesswork. Also, the bowsprit and stern gaff (I think - the fixed horizontal bottom spar) are shown on the box photo with black straps to hold them down, but no parts, and the stern is shown in the diagrams with a 1mm brass wire hold-down!

Some parts are short: for example there isn't enough 1mm brass wire, but I've got some copper wire; some wood is insufficient but easily supplemented.

Conclusion: generally good kit of parts, but limited instructions, but application of common sense (and frequent reading of the Forum!) should see even a beginner through the hull. I am now to paint the hull according to Billings, and then it's masts and rigging.

I'm hoping to attach a photo of the boat before painting, here goes.

[pugwash]

Owen you should be very pleased with yourself you have made and excellen start. Well done.
Geoff

[Lord Bungle]

That look great, I hope my first attempt at planking (when I finally get round to it) looks as good