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Author Topic: Getting People interested  (Read 7543 times)

Nordsee

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Getting People interested
« on: November 18, 2010, 02:58:08 pm »

Do any of you think the same as I ? That these wonderful models, built by experts over years of dedicated work with sophisticated tools and masses of talent and skill, actually put off people who maybe interested in making a model? They see these masterpieces and think, " I could never do that" or" That is far too expensive for me to attempt" and don't bother. When I used to go to Shows and I took my Dulcibelle along,or even now when I am sailing on our lake, I got lots of queries about where I got it, and then about the plan and build etc. It only needs a basic 2 channel outfit, the wood will cost you a tenner and you can buy at a very good price, sails and keel bulb.(From the Designer) She sails well, looks pretty and fits fully rigged in nearly any car. Also it is not an overpriced Chinese look-a-like, but a boat that can be modified and altered to be "Your" boat.It is popular and can easily be enlarged to be a more weather proof vessel.
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Lord Bungle

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 03:11:52 pm »

Yes :) I have only started in this hobby and rather than build from kits I am refinishing/rebuilding/restoring how ever you want to put it models I have just won my 2nd one on ebay a twin 540 motored 32inch long huntsman (so stand by for more stupid questions from me)
but I am looking and gaining skills I hope, so I can one day build my own model from scratch. In the mean time, the boats I do have are giving me experience in construction techniques and how a single motor handles and how a dual motor handles. (I someday wish to build a 1/12 scale RAF seaplane tender with twin engines (probably electric). but until then I am playing with the boats I have, and will be gaining experience building some of the boats from here http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/ great site btw  :-))
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nemesis

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 03:29:45 pm »

Guten tag Nordsee, Yes, I have to agree with you, this hypothesis was put to me many years ago by the late Mike Bond and the more you think about it he certainly had a point. Kits do encourage beginners to build or assemble and hopefully go on to scratchbuild models that they fancy, ones that are not kitted and you have to make the fittings etc.    Nemesis
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 04:21:21 pm »

I think that this is why you need kit manufacturers attending at shows. People can see the finished models on the club stands and then inspect the kit contents and talk it over with the manufacturers. That way the building process doesn't seem so challenging.


It is important that, as with any other hobby or sport etc., people find the level that they are comfortable with as not everyone aspires to the masterpieces you see on display. You can have a great deal of fun at 'club' level without feeling that you are a failure if you can't create a museum quality model.

Kits have always been the main way into the hobby and these days you are spoilt for choice.

Colin
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gondolier88

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 04:30:15 pm »

Only to those with no ambition in my point of view- we constantly see things that are out of our normal skills or knowlege, but if we had no ambition we would never attempt to design them, if we'd even thought about it, let alone make them.

Defeatists will always be defeated, the ambitious will only ever succeed- even if the project is never finished it will always have taught them something, and knowlege leads to future successes.

When I was 15 I went on the 45' Windermere steam launch Shamrock. When I got home I designed an 8' model from memory, all solid oak/mahogany/cedar construction, live steam plant with self designed loco' boiler and all the details I could remember. I started building, steaming .25" square oak for the frames, cutting planks, making a stem and apron, making a raked cabin and engine cover etc. I never finished it, I doubt I will, but the lessons I learnt have stood me in good stead for expanding my hobby, and even leading to employment.

As a 15 year old if I'd said 'wow, I could never build something like that' where would I be? And no I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I was using a paper-round to pay for the wood and a bandsaw- of which still has regular use in my workshop.

As a result I feel very strongly that we should always build the best we can and be rightly proud of such- not to put off would-be modellers, but to inspire them.

Greg
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Bryan Young

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 06:03:52 pm »

Do any of you think the same as I ? That these wonderful models, built by experts over years of dedicated work with sophisticated tools and masses of talent and skill, actually put off people who maybe interested in making a model? They see these masterpieces and think, " I could never do that" or" That is far too expensive for me to attempt" and don't bother. When I used to go to Shows and I took my Dulcibelle along,or even now when I am sailing on our lake, I got lots of queries about where I got it, and then about the plan and build etc. It only needs a basic 2 channel outfit, the wood will cost you a tenner and you can buy at a very good price, sails and keel bulb.(From the Designer) She sails well, looks pretty and fits fully rigged in nearly any car. Also it is not an overpriced Chinese look-a-like, but a boat that can be modified and altered to be "Your" boat.It is popular and can easily be enlarged to be a more weather proof vessel.

It's this very point that I was (and am) trying to make in the writing about "Norseman"! I began by having no model making skills whatsoever and made more mistakes than you could shake the proverbial stick at.
Knowing that many people like yourself are "keen" but put off by seeing some models that look to be out of your reach is no reason at all for you to lose heart. I've progressed from being a total ignoramus as far as modelling is concerned to be able now to think I can offer advice to beginners like yourself....and hopefully steering you away from the minefields and pitfalls that cost me so much in terms of both cash and time.
This "learning process" has gone on now for over 30 years. And I'm still learning. I suppose it all boils down to how keen you are. BY.
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Notes from a simple seaman

Colin Bishop

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 06:32:25 pm »

Quote
I suppose it all boils down to how keen you are.

Very true. And it is also true that some people will create a masterpiece with their first effort - it does happen, but not often. But I see no objection to taking a more progressive route into the hobby, cutting your teeth on something relatively simple initially and using this to improve your skill levels so that you progress to more complex work at your own pace - and I'll bet that is how most modellers learn the ropes.

As for continuing towards 'museum standard' I think that depends on the individual. Some people progress to a certain level and no further as they are happy with what they do. It's not necessarily about ambition but balance. I enjoy modelling but I'm not obsessed with it and like to spend my time on other things as well. Spending all your hours in the workshop is not a good recipe for domestic harmony.

It's whatever floats your boat really.

Colin
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Bryan Young

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 07:21:26 pm »

Colin, getting to "museum standard" with a working boat is an aspiration. Like training for the Olympics or something. Very few attain it, but that doesn't stop others trying. And it's the "trying" bit that makes the difference. I've scrapped a model that I just knew wasn't going to be up to my expectations, even though I'd spent over a year working on it.
It's all very well just saying "Well, it's good enough for me" just isn't the reaction I'd expect to hear from someone who wishes to knuckle down and learn.
I half agree with "Nemesis" that building from a kit is a good introduction, and that it my (in time) lead on to another level. But even at the "top end" of kit building, at the end of the day you are building someone elses model and not one of your own creation.
And I'm not trying to open old wounds here between kits and scratch. Each has its place.
But....seriously....building from scratch does indicate more of a desire to learn about what you are actually doing than just following instructions.
I give an example. A couple of weeks ago someone was asking about what sort of boat davit would be fitted to a TID tug. No research or questioning whatsoever. Straight on to this site and expect answers so he (or she) could blithely carry on without really thinking about it.
      The bottom line really is that no-one including kit builders will ever, ever get a "good" model off their workbench if they don't make the effort to learn what all the "bits" do, and how they relate to each other.
Otherwise the "builder" just ends up with a basically unsatisfactory toy. BY.
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Notes from a simple seaman

Lord Bungle

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 07:26:07 pm »

As someone new to rc boats I do think that some of the answers to questions could be made a lot easier to understand, especially in the beginners start here area. I know that there are questions I would like answered but feel unsure of asking as people with more experience will think them stupid, and to someone with experience they probably are stupid.
 People must try to remember that not everyone knows how to use google to its full use, and if trying to look something up and getting loads of answers might not get the time to read every one of them, so will think, ok I will ask on the forum. although this may be considered a pain, it should also be thought of people wanting to learn from the expertise on here. So an answer of do a search for it isn't really of any use, its like giving an answer of "Because it is" when a child asks why the sky is blue, I am sure the experts on here learnt by asking questions, or from many years of experience, and it would be nice if they passed some of that knowledge on without sarcastic comments.  :-)

Having said that I have had some very usefull information and help given to me by a small group of people, and thanks to them I know have/had (the esc blew up thanks to what looks like a manufacturing fault) a working boat, its far from a good looking, highly detailed craft, but it floats, doesn't leak, goes forwards, backward, and turns left and right and helps me relax when playing with it on a local lake.  

Just be gentle when I ask my next stupid question, for 1 day I might shock you all and produce a wonderfull boat to the high standards of some on here.
LB
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2010, 08:49:09 pm »

... until then I am playing with the boats I have, and will be gaining experience building some of the boats from here http://modelboats.hobby-site.com/ ..

You will find these plans are a bit limiting for an adult builder after a while - they were Ernie Webster's introduction to marine modelling, intended for 10-15 year olds.

They are intended to fill a huge gap in the model boat market that the original poster seems to have noticed - you can see wonderful works of engineering art on boating ponds, and any amount of plastic Chinese powerboats, but where are the planks of wood with twig masts being pulled around by an 8-year old? The shops haven't got a lot of kits you can give a 10 year old for Christmas - I think we need to encourage young entrants to the hobby by providing something simple they can succeed at by themselves...   

I know I've been neglecting the site - pressure of looking for work! But I have plans for a number of new ships - in the new year....
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Shipmate60

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2010, 09:10:30 pm »

Lord Bungle,
We have all had to start somewhere, some as a child and some as a pensioner.
As has been said on here many times "there is no such thing as a stupid question, only the one I didn't ask"
If you don't know something ASK.
If it is due to inexperience we have ALL been there at sometime.

Bob
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triumphjon

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2010, 09:11:50 pm »

for many years while sailing at the various lakes around the country ive been asked the same questions , i like your boat , then its is it hard to use ? often followed by how much does it cost ?and sometimes by can i have a go mate !  i try being logical in not trying to put potential newbies off , as with most new hobbies or past times that we may take up the cost has a limiting factor ! im sure im not the only modeller who has built up a collection of tools & equipment over many years ? in all honesty a simple model can be made without expensive power tools but just the basic tools that can be found in most homes ! while there are many kits on the market today there cost is often off putting to a newbie , whereas a sensibly priced second hand model that is capable of being sailed straight away is maybe a better starting point ?
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Colin H

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2010, 11:02:36 pm »


I think one of the problems is the human, no one person is like another. We all have different levels of skill, different aspirations, different likes and dislikes.

I personally prefer more to be in the work shop than down the pond but I would not denigrate the man/woman who bought a ready to sail boat because they prefer the pond to the workshop.

I started with model boats six years ago skill level zero (not much higher now). I bought a simple Billings kit of a french trawler, eventually got it on to the pond to prove it worked. Took it home removed anything salvageable and binned it.

After several kits all binned bar one I tried a Springer and then another (first springer) stripped and binned yesterday after three times down the pond.

That boat will provide most of my needs for the Swordsman I am now trying to build.

Old but true saying "What ever floats your boat."

Colin H.
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Lord Bungle

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 11:20:33 pm »

have you never thought about selling the boats on?
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soldier151

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2010, 12:47:50 am »

Hi Guys
Couldn't agree more - At Killingworth Lake we encourage members of the public to have a go! and are always happy to answer questions.  What better was to get new members.  A good intro is the Glyn Guest/Hal Harrison models, generally made out of Balsa and fairly cheap.  When we have display days there is always one or two of these models on display, not yet completed as this shows people HOW TO DO IT.
Kits are great but can be outside the budget of many, a lifeboat says costs 300 for the kit, motors and radio gear etc another 100, three or four figures at 12 each, paints and adhesives 50, we are now looking at 500 +.  Compare this to a few quid on balsa and a basic 2 channel radio, less than a 100.
Basic tools, a metal rule, stanley knife, PVA glue, tissue paper and cellulose dope, some odd paints and sandpaper and a lot of love, hey presto YOUR OWN BOAT.  You built it, you sail it, thats the motto at Killy Lake,
Soldier151
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woodbutcher

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2010, 02:24:29 am »

it takes makers of all levels,and they all generate interest at the pond. I started with plastic kits when I was 9 or 10 years old and only started to scratch build boats because I couldn't afford the kits, as it was it took a lot of sacrifice to purchase my first two channel radio. Scratch building isn't necessarily cheaper but it lets you build the boat you want in a scale you want with as much detail and as many functions as you want. Sometimes it leads to some dissapointments but thats part of the learning. The thing is to do the best tou can and make each build better than the last, good rule for life. Al
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RODDERS

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2010, 09:00:27 am »

My 2p.........................
 I build all sorts of stuff ,from road going vehicles down to my tug model.I  have been offered stupidly low money for various stuff Ive done . Most go off in a huff,some actually laugh at me when I refuse the offers because they  just dont seem to realise what it takes to get stuff finished,both financially and time wise.
 The way I see it ,is that once the basics are done ,you have got to throw money at whatever size build to get it finished.I tend to have a flurry of activity .then leave the project for a while. In the case of the tug,I 've only just re started on it after leaving it for a bout 3 years.
 I ind lots of folks interested,but none have any knowledge of how to use tools etc! Sorry to ramble.
        Rod
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Colin H

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2010, 05:19:06 pm »


Has anyone given thought to todays education system.

Judging by the average age of our members I would think that when most of us were at school we had the use of both a metal and a wood work shop. We were taught basic skills in both disciplines and by the time we left most of us could use the hand tools available.

During my last two years I chose metal work and by the time I left at fifteen I had basic skills on lathes, grinding and buffing wheels, brazing and soldering plus forge work.

From what I saw of my sons school (he is now 35) he had none of those advantages.

Colin H.
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50mm

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2010, 07:30:32 pm »

Those educational values are present here in the US, dread to think what the Uk is like for its Education nowadays, not to boast but you find that 'most' inventions of modern time are created this side of the world or in Japan, doubt its a matter of intelligence but the educational values taught. (sort your government out, here its 4 year terms to a max of 8 so its not so hard to change all the mistakes of other parties)

Go back to basics? my son is doing shop class (he's 15) no doubt if you asked a 15 year old from the uk how a lathe works or how do you use a hand saw or how do you use a mig/spot welder he will shrug.

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triumphjon

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2010, 07:55:07 pm »

having spoken to somebody with seniour school age children they dont allow them into the school workshops any more due to the health and safety issues of the workshop enviroment ! thus how do we expect to get school children into our hobby through the education system ?
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Number 6

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2010, 08:13:40 pm »

With our club (Potteries MBC) sailing at public park and nature reserve we often get approached by members of the public of all ages that express an interest in the hobby. We always try to encourage them to have a look what's available both in kit form and ready to run. Most of us are keen to show them how they work. We advise them that you can spend a small fortune on the hobby if you wish but can also perhaps get a great amount of fun and pleasure from the ready to run boats. We say you can always go to bigger and more complex projects, just don't overface yourself with a build or you'll lose interest and heart in the hobby. We have a couple of younger enthusiasts that come down with their own RTR boats and we help them get them running properly etc. The future of the hobby lies with us encouraging the youngsters to switch off their xbox's and ipods and actually making something with their own hands, something they can be proud of, and can say "I built that". Have a look at the photos from the shows of this year, how many people in the pics are under 25? Not many. The manufacturing industry in the UK is a shambles, it's very disheartening to see the demise of so much of our once great nation. We import so much it's getting a joke, we're losing the ability to create anything at all except national debt...Dave.  {:-{
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triumphjon

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2010, 08:23:17 pm »

we dont make very much here any longer , we once had a thriving motor industry , what is left as wholly british ? i think its just the morgan and marcos ! it would be great to see younger blood in the hobby as has been said before but its hard to get them into actually making very much . ive tried as my girlfreind has an 14 year old grandson , yes hed love a model boat , but only if i build it for him then supply everything to make it work ! ive tried several times to get him to come and have an assisted build , the xbox or ps ? wins every time .
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Colin H

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 11:10:23 pm »



Jon,

I wasn't suggesting we get people interested through the education system just that the system I went through taught me how to make things and how to use tools etc.

This maybe what sparked my love of working with my hands (never was much of an academic).

Maybe another thing was that back in the 1950s if you didn't make your trolley in a summer or your sled in a winter you didn't have one to play with.

As you point out the Health & Safety idiots stopped this approach in schools and other organisations. After all it would not do for little Johnnie to cut is finger or little Susie to damage her finger nail would it.

Colin H.
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triumphjon

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2010, 11:32:36 pm »

very true . i even looked at a job advert for a garage mechanic this week , read ;- must be able to use an ossiliscope , and computer readers ? gone are the days of fuel , sparks , compression ! kids today dont know what hand tools are or how to use them ! i was in a shop recently when a younger member of the comunity visited complaining he couldnt cut his 1/8th ply to make his model , when i looked at his chosen j hacksaw there werent any teeth on the blade  ,
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Lord Bungle

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Re: Getting People interested
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2010, 11:36:31 pm »

you will find that job was for a technician they don't have mechanics these days, I am worried that soon the same ideas will end up in hospital, a confused nursing technician trying to work out where to stick the probe to diagnose a broken leg  {-)
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