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Author Topic: Farewell Ark Royal  (Read 8892 times)

Colin Bishop

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Farewell Ark Royal
« on: November 24, 2010, 06:28:29 PM »

Just watched the BBC coverage of the last Harriers taking off from Ark Royal.

She returned from a 12m refit a year ago, is at peak efficiency and is just being thrown away.

Crazy!  >>:-(

Colin
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matphoto

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 06:31:07 PM »

I agree totally crazy, all of Britain's enemies must be jumping about and clapping with glee. :(( :(( :((
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pugwash

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 06:53:49 PM »

September 6th 2010 Ark coming out of drydock at Pompey having nearly finished a refit.
What a waste.
Geoff

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fatcat123

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 07:42:47 PM »

Any ideas as to where its actually going to be cut up?

Dan
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triumphjon

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2010, 07:56:27 PM »

apparently shes up for sale ! . i cant see the logic of spending 12 million on a vessel only to want to scrap it within 6 months , im not sure what the crackpots at downing street are on , its certainly not on the same island or plannet that im on !
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Bryan Young

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2010, 07:57:06 PM »

I hate to think it, but I believe that in the not too distant future we, as a Nation, may come to regret all this.
As the Defence Of The Realm is the prime duty of Her Majesty's Government....how on earth did the so-called Financial Experts become predominant. I'm not being jingoistic here. Our United Kingdom is being riven apart by political stupidity going back many years but really brought to a head by the actions of our previous "Government" ..some of which (to my mind) verge on the edges of treason. It's almost as if they intended to bring this nation to its knees. And they have almost succeeded.
Smouldering civil unrest (mild up till now) fermented in the belief that the "State should pay" attitude is probably at the heart of it.
No matter how sympathetic the private minds in Government actually think, they are hamstrung.
Although far from being a supporter of a more authoritarian sort of Government, I'm becoming more and more inclined to believe that it's becoming requisite. Sorry. BY.
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triumphjon

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2010, 08:07:22 PM »

i was under the impresion that elect a government party to run the country on our behalf ? ? who voted for this robbing gang ? think its time to join the students on mass , to show that were not a happy population with the way "our " leaders are suposedly running our country !
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2010, 08:29:30 PM »

The problem with the last Government, and Gordon Brown in particular, was that no importance was attached to Defence as such. They tried to run two wars from a peacetime budget which is why everything is now massively overspent. If you want to run a war then it has to be paid for. They even had a part time Defence Secretary. Defence expenditure was simply seen as a means of pacifying the Unions in key constituencies.

The problem with the present Government, with Defence and in other areas, is that they are trying to use their 'cleverness' to offset their lack of experience and their  ignorance. They lack the skills to be able to evaluate differing arguments being made to them and the whole thing gets boiled down to finance as dictated by the Treasury. Neither Cameron or Osborne strike me as people with much of a grasp of historical persepective.

The basic issue with both the present and last set of politicians is that they were and are functionally incompetent to a significant degree. They may learn from their mistakes but by then it is frequently too late.

Colin
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FsASTSyd1

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2010, 08:32:28 PM »

Another disasterous decision from our "Lieders".  I have a feeling that if you look back over the last 50 years nearly every change,amendment or decision made by our so called government has sooner or later turned into a pile of ***.   Ah the benifits of professional politicians!!! most of whom have never done a real days work in their life.
Syd J
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triumphjon

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2010, 09:11:22 PM »

they are all completely out of touch with reality , or how the rest of us have to live !
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longshanks

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2010, 09:58:08 PM »

In this time of budget cuts how about puttting the Falklands up for sale ! Were going to loose it soon anyway !
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brianB6

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2010, 10:15:27 PM »

Sounds as if you would prefer to put the Houses of Parliament up for sale.
How about turning them into a Fun Park?  %%
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triumphjon

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2010, 10:18:02 PM »

thats not parliment , that where tiered mps go to sleep !
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yorkiej

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2010, 12:29:44 AM »

thats not parliment , that where tiered mps go to sleep !
I would like to see the lot of them 'tiered', on the steps to the gillotine for high treason, with the expenses thieves first in line.
Anyone under 30 with any sense should emigrate as this Country is finished, I am very sad to say that but I feel it is now true.
John   :(( :((<:( <:(<*< <*< <*<
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brianB6

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2010, 02:56:19 AM »

Well orztralia is still taking boat people
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bigfella

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2010, 04:58:08 AM »

I would not grumble, at least you have an Aircraft Carrier or two. Our navy consists of a bunch of patrol boats whose main job is a ferry service for asylum seekers who find their way into Australian waters on leaky boats. Our fleet air arm consists of a few outdated helicopters. It would seem that defence in both countries is last on the list come budget time.

Regards David
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sailorboy61

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2010, 10:48:22 AM »

There's alot of blame and fingers being pointed at the previous as well as the current governments. neither of whom had much going for them....... lets not forget these problems actually started with a certain lady running the country....... her belief that there is no society only individuals has come to fruition, she must be very happy..... the 'loads a money' class of the 80s looking after number one have too deep a hold on this country. All politics and politicians eventually become corrupt..... they forget that they are working for the country and further their own ends.Todays 'don't care' generation are the off spring of the generation that was look after yourself first and foremost, why is their attitude any suprise? Its easy to blame governments....... it saves people having to point the finger at themself.
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Arrow5

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2010, 10:56:17 AM »

100% correct Sailorboy, I couldnt agree more. >:-o
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Circlip

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2010, 11:38:51 AM »

Gerra Life, at least you'll all be able to buy a piece back after it's been converted into a new shiney car or the latest Plasma Tele. :-))

  Regards  Ian.
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pugwash

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2010, 11:47:51 AM »

You can blame Mrs T for a lot of things in this country but the defence cutting started way before she came into office
Dennis Healey in 1968 really got the ball rolling with cancellation of the TSR2 project (which 10yrs after its scrapping the Americans
admitted was a better aircraft  (and cheaper) than anything they had) the CV01 project and the phasing out of big carriers, the decimating
of the traditional regimental system ( I remember the "save the Argylls campaign" and they were one of many fine regiments which went to the
wall. There are too many things to list.  She carried it on into the 80's and nearly got caught out with the Falklands war - How much different could it
have been with the old Ark giving air support with Phantoms for inteception AEW Gannets for radar cover and Buchaneers for bombing - think what it cost us
in ships and men.   Successive governments have carried on this tradition of hitting defence first but now we are two or three cuts too far.
Geoff
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Perkasaman2

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2010, 12:11:22 PM »

I'll go along with sailorboy61 and add that we have recently avoided a banking meltdown of staggering  proportions that has destroyed ALL government spending/planning in every country affected by the fallout. The meltdown/globalisation of trade is having huge repercussions on so called 'successful' or growing economies - Japan, Germany, China and India etc.
Our post war social/economic progress could never have been achieved by retaining a war economy through the Cold War era. The rotting soviet fleets are largely still around.
The army/navy have 32 Harriers left. Nostalgia aside, the A R class were a naval expedience to cobble a fleet air arm based on a vstol ground attack design of  limited yet novel design. It was never pilot friendly and requires the highest level of piloting skills to use safely and fight effectively. Our territorial waters can be protected by multi-role land based aircraft of much greater capability.

 

 

 
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pugwash

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2010, 12:24:21 PM »

Too flaming right - Don't forget the reason for scrapping the big carriers was because we would have no committment
East of Suez.  Correct me if I'm wrong but the Navy has spent most of its time up the Persian Gulf in the last few years.
Governments cannot foretell the future so we need a credible defence for most eventualities.

Perkasaman there is a huge difference between a full wartime fleet,army,airforce and a viable defence
Don't forget we are a maritime trading nation. 88% of what we use in this country comes in by sea. Coastal defence is fine
but you have to be able to extend your reach past the Western Approaches.  for instance the last set of figures by the IMO states
it is costing the world economy 16 billion with the priacy problem worldwide.
Geoff
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triumphjon

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2010, 12:47:09 PM »

i still cant understand how as a nation supposedly saving money you can spend 12 million pounds to refit a vessel in september to decied a month later to scrap it ? then to throw another 4 million at hms bristol which has no props on her shafts , and is used as a floating hotel for personell ? ? surely thats at least 4 million that could have been saved on the hotel ? and spent more wisely keeping our mobile airfeild afloat !
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2010, 01:21:16 PM »

Topic cleaned up.  :police:
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Bryan Young

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Re: Farewell Ark Royal
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2010, 06:56:38 PM »

This topic has gone far beyond the original "Ark Royal" starter hasn't it.
But most of the posts have concentrated on the decimation of the "Bits That Matter"...that is, ships, aircraft,tanks and so on.
Very little has been said about the bits of the MoD that aren't "front line". The newspapers seem to equate everyone not in uniform as a "pen-pusher". Whilst I agree 100% that we have too many "office staff", there are many, many people employed by the MoD who "do" stuff.
When we read about (for instance) the thousands of people employed, the news always seems to think that they are all siiting behind a desk. Not so. The MoD demands a huge maintenance staff without whom the "front line" bit would just fall apart. You name it, the list is too long. But think about it. Research, Development, Testing, all has to be done. Mainly by employees of the MoD.
My personal poisoned finger would be aimed at the suits in Whitehall who seem to be so overmanned that complacency has become endemic. Just witness the laxity within the procurement section. BY.
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