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Author Topic: Robbe Schutze  (Read 6749 times)

DickyD

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Robbe Schutze
« on: February 15, 2007, 09:53:10 AM »

I have a small problem with the electrics on my boat.
I am doing it as Robbes instructions using 2 motors and one esc.
The instructions said to wire the motors positive to positive and negative to negative which I have done. However I am a complete ignoramus where electrics are concerned but I think I might have found a small flaw in their instructions. As they have supplied left and right handed props wont the boat go round in circles. any chance you could let me know your thoughts on this.
In words of one syllable please

Thanks Richard ;)
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Faraday's Cage

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2007, 09:59:34 AM »

Hi Ya Richard,

Yeah mate, you need to wire one of the motors in reverse so that one turns clockwise and the other anti clock. Just a matter of swapping two wires over on the motor terminals. This wont affect any capacitors you may be using for suppression.

What sort of speed controller are you using. Electronic or mechanical ?

Terry.
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DickyD

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2007, 10:11:34 AM »

Hi Terry
Electronic
Does it make any difference which motor I reverse bearing in mind the props and negative and positive connections. Will this affect the esc?

Richard ;)
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Faraday's Cage

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2007, 10:36:24 AM »

Look at the props from the stern.  Power up esc and check which way props are rotating.
You need port (left) prop to rotate anti clock and starboard prop clockwise when thottle is forward (there are those that will say no, other way around, but try it first).
Wired as it is now, one prop will be going the wrong way so reverse the wiring to that motor.
It wont make any difference to esc.
On the bench, you should feel more of a draft from motors going forwards than reverse if not then swap props around.

Terry.
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DickyD

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2007, 10:41:36 AM »

Thanks Terry I will try it later

Richard ;)
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J.beazley

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2007, 11:45:27 AM »

have you managed to sort it yet Richard or would you like a few pics of mine to help???

Jay
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DickyD

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2007, 12:49:10 PM »

Hi Jay
That might be a help

Richard ;)
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John W E

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2007, 01:54:03 PM »

Hi ya my mate

Ive just made a quick sketch to try and help you out - while I wait for some paint to dry.  Happy building mate.

Aye
John E
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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2007, 03:09:04 PM »

there you go john hit the nail on the head ;D
just to let you know im running my props inboard.

Jay
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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2007, 03:32:28 PM »

Thankyou all for your help.

Thanks for the sketch John.

Bobs just got home Jay.

If I had followed Robbes instructions I would be going round in ever decreasing circles.

Richard ;)
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Shipmate60

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2007, 10:08:37 PM »

Terry,
This model with a single speed controller really does need inward turning props.
She is twin screw but triple rudder. large centre rudder and about 1/3 size wing rudders.
The difference with inward tuning props is quite substantial!
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DickyD

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2007, 10:11:28 PM »

Bob the rudders on mine are all the same size, ???

Richard ;)
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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2007, 11:16:34 PM »

Shipmate 60,

I dont know the model myself and can only speak from personal experience with my models.

I think sometimes its a matter of try it and see if not very good then swap props over and motor connections.

Im sure there must be a thread on here somewhere that explains the physics of it all.

Answers on a postcard to......................................................................

 ;)
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John W E

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2007, 11:19:42 PM »

 hi there DickyD - tend to agree with what Shipmates60 says about having inboard turning props.  You could, if you wished, assemble the model as it says in the instructions and try the model on the water with outboard rotating props (as per my drawing earlier) if the model tends to turn wide, it would be a simple operation of changing the props over - and reversing your throttle switch on the transmitter and note the difference in your turning circle of the model.

Aye
John E
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Shipmate60

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2007, 08:18:18 AM »

John,
I have had 4 of these models, and believe me there is a vast difference.

Bob
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Shipmate60

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2007, 08:20:07 AM »

Richard,
This is the set up on mine, but I am running Model Motoes Direct 777 motors on 12 volts.
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J.beazley

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2007, 08:20:48 AM »

Bobs right on this one.
When i first put my Schutze on the water she ran with the motors running outboard, to say i needed a turning cicle of a house would be an understatement.

swaped the props over and now she turns loads better.

Jay
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Shipmate60

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2007, 03:01:30 PM »

Dicky,
Is the new one only twin rudder, I will have to open the box then.

Terry,
The physics is very simple for inward turning props.
The propwash from inward turning props is directed up under the counter of the hull and out over the rudder(s).
With outward turning props the propwash is directed under the rudder, this reduces friction allowing higher speed, but not usually noticeable on a model.

Bob

PS Just got pierhead jump, will be on board my ship for the next few weeks.
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DickyD

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2007, 03:10:35 PM »

No Bob, three rudders all the same size .
Richard ;)
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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2007, 10:29:23 AM »

Bob,
Thanks for the explanation.

Richard,
Looks like I was incorrect  :-[ and that inward turning props are what you need.

Terry.
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John W E

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2007, 02:34:42 PM »

Hi all, Not wanting to upset the apple cart and all that, and turn this thread into a long too's and fro's argument but......

The subject of propellor design rotation/rudder/rudder size is not a simple topic.  What Shipmates60 has done is simplify a very complicated subject which, at the end of the day, does not have any definite solutions.

It has been proven time after time that two people can build identical models - yet one of the models performs better than the other in some way.  So therefore, if Shipmates60, for arguments sake, has built (like he says 4 models of this vessel) and DickyD is building one they may look identical, but, they may perform totally different in the water.    So, as regards hard and fast rules of props and rudders, it is generally a case of the old saying 'suck it and see' - nobody is right and nobody is wrong on this subject.

Further good reading, if anyone does wish to read into this is a book called HighSpeed Small Craft by Peter Du Cane.   I warn you for propellor/rudder design its very heavy reading - there are a lot of mathematics involved.

Aye
John E
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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2007, 02:52:54 PM »

I have had problems with dual motor models in the recent past, one in particular was my Riva Aquarama which is driven and steered by two motors.   I found the answers to all my problems in an article by Dave Milbourn which is under `Electric Motors` at the foot of Mayhem`s Home page.   Well worth a read!   Pete M
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John W E

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2007, 03:19:02 PM »

Hi there - there are several good write-ups on Mayhems pages and that one by Dave M is very good - bit of an elusive character this Dave M - he is not only good at writing articles on electronics but he nows how to finish hulls exceptionally well  ;D

Aye
John E
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DickyD

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2007, 11:06:13 AM »

Thanks everyone for your help.
Motors and RC now installed with props running inboard.
So I will have to see how she behaves in the future.
I can now put the deck on.

Richard ;)
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J.beazley

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Re: Robbe Schutze
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2007, 11:16:59 AM »

Getting there then Richard  ;D

you not going to show us all the build process???

Jay
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