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[nick_75au]

I am thinking about building a 1870's era warship, My net wanderings have turned up very little information. A museum has a solid wood builders model with an image online, there are a few references to her in a couple of online documents, and I have a book with an image and limited specifications. I think I can build the hull from this scant info but precious little else.

Nick

[brianB6]

What Ship?
Try contacting Greenwich Maritime Museum if the ship was from UK.

[nick_75au]

Hi Brian,
 An Australian ship, boat actually, Second class torpedo boat  Acheron/Avernus . I'm looking more for information on conducting research more than specific details of the boat in question, you know" give the man a fish/ teach a man to fish"

Cheers
Nick

[deadbeat]

The Royal Navy has a Historical Branch sited in HM Naval Base, Portsmouth, the Australian Navy may have such a thing as well, even if they don't the RN Branch may be able to help. I don't know the web address, but go to the RN web site (Google it) and you may find a link to the historical branch.

Regards

[ian kennedy]

Hi Nick,

The only info I could find for you is this...

ACHERON and the AVERNUS were built at Sydney 1879.

16 T displacement.

78 ft long 10 ft beam.

300 ihp = 16 knots speed.

Unlike some colonial TB's and gunboats which were built by Armstrong's in the UK, dismantled shipped to their intended customers country and reassembled after transport to their home waters station these appear to have been designed and built in Australia/New South Wales area.

At a guess I would say that they would probably have followed the Thornycroft 2nd class Torpedo boat design from the 1870's, being single screwed with either 1 or 2 swivel mounted tubes mounted on either beam towards the bow area, and a single swivel tube on the centre line aft.

If you have a maritime museum or war museum try contacting them with the above info to see if they have any drawings or photographs, sorry if this seem a pathetic reply but I have had no dealings with Australian museums, and all i can really say is don't give up if you fall at the first hurdle......research can be both painfull and rewarding at the same time!!

Regards

Ian

[Colin Bishop]

The RN Museum Website is here: http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/ As you will see, they cater for research enquiries.

If you are trying to track down details of a particular ship then the first thing is to try and find out where it was built as the shipyard would have had original drawings and maybe photos too. Then you may be able to trace what happened to that documentation and whether it ended up in a museum somewhere.

On the subject of research generally, Dave Wooley had a 10 page article on researching ship models published in the recent Model Boats Scale Special issue. You may be able to get hold of a copy of this if you eamil MyHobbyStore Customer Services customer.services@myhobbystore.com

Colin

[nick_75au]

Here is a start to the hull in delft ship


http://www.powerhousemuseum.com/coll...se/?irn=211569

I have 3 Photos Ive retrieved from online plus one other in a book called Australian Warships Through The Lens 1901-1945. I know the builder from the museum link.

Currently working on a Delft Ship model but I'm struggling to reach the supposed 16 tons without the boat looking anaemic. The Museum Info suggests 22 tons, Ive had to reduce the indicated draft to make it look OK.

Colin, I will have to look that up
Thanks

[nick_75au]

That image gave me another image from the Australian War Memorial 9(AWM) that is an engraving showing the internals and a top view, it should help me improve the lines plan.

What fun this is for a New Years Day, better than getting P****d at some seedy pub 

Update to follow

Nick

[nick_75au]

I am thinking about fattening up the hull below the waterline, I don't know if the 22 tones is an accurate figure as there is a very similar Thornycroft boat that is 5 feet longer but weighs in at 33 tons. here is what I am thinking
Nick

[linux]

Warship 2001-2002 (ISBN 0851779018) contains a photo of both Avernus and Acheron in Sydney Harbour, Easter 1889. It is contained in an article called Australian Colonial Navies 1855-1900 by Colin Jones.

A quick Google search yielded the following information about archival material for these boats:

It is hoped that the survey in N.S.W. will also provide us with details of the Acheron and Avernus (82'6" x 10'6", 22 tons displacement), designed by Norman Selfe and built by the Atlas Engineering Company of Pyrmont.

Source: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~maav/hmvslonsdale.htm

Perhaps you could chase this up if you haven't already done so.

[kiwi]

Hi Nick,
The Mitchell Library in Sydney has original drawings from the Norman Selfe era. But don't expect a nicely listed catalogue for them. I have been researching for information from a couple of the companies where Selfe started his career, and the boats which where built at that time. Very labour intensive at the Mitchell, as you have to learn their system, and then interperprite the catalogue listing (if there is one). I have been doing it by file drawer. Select a drawer, then go through upto 80 odd drawings looking for what you want. My research has been mostly for boiler and engine details, and has been slow and laborious. Traveling from NZ doesn't help much either, but, I have had some good results, and will be there again next time in Sydney.
Hope this is of some help
kiwi

[brianB6]

I presume you have contacted the Navel Historical Society of Australia.
They offer to do research or can direct you where to look.
Website for the Acheron:-

http://www.navyhistory.org.au/australia%E2%80%99s-first-warship-the-torpedo-boat-acheron/

[derekwarner]

Nick.......try searching for HMAS Childers  [1890?] ...I have an image of her on Port Phillip bay......I am interstate ....back later this week....will photograph & post then.....Derek

[Roadrunner]

try here
http://www.shipsnostalgia.com/forum.php

A great source of information and photographs, it will require you to sign up (its free) always a good source of reference for any modeller 

[nick_75au]

Are there resources available for John I. Thornycroft, the designer of the vessels. I was wondering if there were any Norwegians on the board who could navigate the Maritime Museum

http://www.fmu.mil.no/marine/Marinemuseet.htm

Several sites link to this site but... a password is required to enter the site
http://www.knmskjold.org

They have a restored 1873 Thonycroft torpedo boat of which may have been a predecessor, HNoMS Rap

Nick

The Acheron has a locomotive boiler.

Nick

[linux]

Are there resources available for John I. Thornycroft, the designer of the vessels.

Other sources - including the contemporary press cutting below - state that the ships were designed by Norman Selfe.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=GRA18790426.2.3.5

[nick_75au]

Linux,
Thank you, how did you find that ? as part of my overall interest in how research in itself is done?

Cheers
Nick

[linux]

I found it by Googling for "Norman Selfe" (per my previous post) and "Acheron".

[kiwi]

Hi,
Norman Selfe was a prolific engineer. He worked (as a draughtsman) for P.J. Russell & Co. Ltd in 1863/4 when they built two River tug/supply boats (designed by a NZ engineer) for the NZ Colonial Govt. When Russell's closed he and the Chief Designer started their own business. Selfe went on to be one of Sydney's best known Engineers of the time.
The difference between 1864 and 1889 steam engines was very great, and Selfe did develop both steam engines and refrigeration plants, which where the equal or better than anything from Europe.
Just an aside.
cheers
kiwi