Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: The Big E's Skipper sacked!  (Read 5338 times)

farrow

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 08:30:56 am »

I t is a shame we cant see one of the offending video's, to see what all the fuss is, a seaman's sense of humour is different to most.
Logged

Lord Bungle

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 09:46:19 am »

Clenn Close was in it, thats enough to put me off  {-)
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 06:40:48 pm »

Well, that was a non-event wasn't it. I imagine "falling short of standards expected" was the clincher. Poor soul. Not even allowed to be a human.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

sailorboy61

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2011, 02:30:55 pm »

At least they still allow their military out to shoot their allies (whoops...accident), and kill/torture those in the countries they are 'protecting' (whoops... accident).
Logged

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,984
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2011, 03:30:18 pm »

I wonder what the US powers that be would have thought of the RN Sod's Operas and crossing the line ceremonies   %% %%


Ned
Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7,305
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 03:41:54 pm »

I guess its the same as the UK forces XXX's Operas. Only there was never a video record (plausible deniablility) of such 'operas' when I was in the army.

Our little shenanigans were behind closed doors and never seen outside the unit. The problem for the skipper, and the USN, in this case is it got off ship.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

DavieTait

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,130
  • Location: Fraserburgh
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 04:18:09 pm »

I think that the videos show nothing more than an XO doing his best to help his crew have a laugh to release a bit of tension during a long operational deployment. To those onboard , and remember the Enterprise has a crew of around 5,000 , these videos will just reflect their own sense of humour , unfortunately to anyone not in the service or a member of her crew when these videos were made they do look pretty unsavoury.

Personally I think the "PC Police" have got to the USN in this case , this shouldn't be a sacking offence and should be seen in the context it was made. A long deployment with operational sorties supporting troops on the ground means people do get short tempered and tempers will fray so anything that helps defuse the situation should not be condemned by people who do not understand the circumstances.

I used to do 21 days at sea on research trawlers and there were times when we were at each others throats simply being working in close proximity to each other for 18 hours a day so I can sympathise with the crew onboard any warship when on a 6 or 9 month deployment especially when its an active combat deployment as most USN Carriers are on since 9/11
Logged
Davie Tait,
Scotland

RaaArtyGunner

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2011, 08:22:20 pm »

Something smells.

Definitely a case of PC police as the event occurred years earlier when he was XO and responsible for morale, which obviously improved otherwise no promotion.

Now as the Boss he gets sacked for past actions ??????????????????????
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2011, 10:07:41 pm »

I think that the videos show nothing more than an XO doing his best to help his crew have a laugh to release a bit of tension during a long operational deployment. To those onboard , and remember the Enterprise has a crew of around 5,000 , these videos will just reflect their own sense of humour , unfortunately to anyone not in the service or a member of her crew when these videos were made they do look pretty unsavoury.

Personally I think the "PC Police" have got to the USN in this case , this shouldn't be a sacking offence and should be seen in the context it was made. A long deployment with operational sorties supporting troops on the ground means people do get short tempered and tempers will fray so anything that helps defuse the situation should not be condemned by people who do not understand the circumstances.

I used to do 21 days at sea on research trawlers and there were times when we were at each others throats simply being working in close proximity to each other for 18 hours a day so I can sympathise with the crew onboard any warship when on a 6 or 9 month deployment especially when its an active combat deployment as most USN Carriers are on since 9/11
wellsaid Davie.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Perkasaman2

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 907
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: North East
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2011, 11:55:21 am »

Drenching the crew in cheap humour from the bilges is morale boosting? A culture of core values based on mutual respect and professionalism is possibly a better contribution toward moral and efficiency. Joking aside, much of what is ridiculed as 'pc' are rights/obligations in law to which we (living in civilized countries) are all entitled and bound. The old saying ' sticks and stones will hurt my bones, but words will never kill me' offers little comfort to victims who are the 'butt' of this humour. It's fair to say that the general progression of civilization is the raising of standards and the struggle for proper values. These issues are really at the heart of 'why' this ship is currently tasked and armed. In the micro/macrocosm?  %) :-)    
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,856
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 01:19:36 pm »

I'd say that it is a question of crude humour being inconsistent with the rank and appointment he held.

If you are in a position of senior authority you can't be 'one of the boys' as well as it undermines discipline.

Colin
Logged

Bryan Young

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,893
  • Location: Whitley Bay
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 01:39:41 pm »

I presume we're still talking about a "crossing the line" thing?
I think most seafarers would be most miffed if this simple "pleasure" was to be banned. I also expect that any such "banning" would be simply ignored. Since time began "initiation" ceremonies have been carried out in most industries...seafarers are no different. Only the really "prissy" would wish to stop it.
Even though I've "crossed the line" (the equator sort of line) more times that I could shake a stick at I would often be ordered to produce my (very battered) certificate, otherwise I'd be "dunked" as a tenderfoot. Long may it last! BY.
Logged
Notes from a simple seaman

Netleyned

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8,984
  • Location: Meridian Line, Mouth of the Humber
    • cleethorpes mba
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2011, 07:35:06 pm »

80 days stooging up and down off Aden covering the withdrawal and we had two cheap humour from the bilges concerts
to RAISE the morale.
About the only time the lads could have a laugh at the Command with no comebacks
2700 men on that ship (UK.s Big E) 100% Professional and 100% respect for the Command
(When they got it right!)
If you ain't been there you just don't know.

Ned
Logged
Smooth seas never made skilful sailors
Up Spirits  Stand fast the Holy Ghost.
http://www.cleethorpesmba.co.uk/

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,856
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2011, 07:56:34 pm »

Have you ever read Jeremy Clarkson's account of his visit to one of the US Nuclear Carriers? Frightening when it comes to his comments on crew quality!

Colin
Logged

DavieTait

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,130
  • Location: Fraserburgh
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2011, 08:55:54 pm »

I can remember reading an article on the RN's view of the Nimitz class carriers crew size , the RN reckoned they could man one of those carriers with no more than 2,400 to 2,600 including the air-wing personnel with a ships compliment of about 750 to 800 in that figure

There really is quantity over quality in some aspects of manning on these big carriers when you look at just how over manned they are compared to other ships , don't think the quality of the pilots is anything other than good after all you have to be pretty competent a pilot to land an F18 onto a carrier at night in poor weather ( back in the mid 60's the USN cross decked with Hermes their A4 and A7 pilots were scared witless landing onto Hermes but her Buccaneer and Sea Vixen pilots thought they could land without needing the arrester gear on the Forrestal class - got the book about Hermes its very very informative and worth reading )
Logged
Davie Tait,
Scotland

RaaArtyGunner

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2011, 09:37:19 pm »

I'd say that it is a question of crude humour being inconsistent with the rank and appointment he held.

If you are in a position of senior authority you can't be 'one of the boys' as well as it undermines discipline.

Colin

This is probably the crux of it.

A main reason why a lot of competent able people refuse promotion.

Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,856
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2011, 09:49:08 pm »

Quote
A main reason why a lot of competent able people refuse promotion.

Very true, which is why my Dad decided to remain as a Sargeant in the 8th Army in WW2 despite being recommended for a commission.

In my career my loyalty was to my staff rather than to the senior management of my organisation. Although I was a reasonably senior middle manager I was not prepared to compromise my principles to the extent that would have been needed for further promotion. Following my retirement I remain on good terms with all of them which indicates that I made the right decision.

Colin

Logged

RaaArtyGunner

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2011, 09:51:19 pm »

Joking aside, much of what is ridiculed as 'pc' are rights/obligations in law to which we (living in civilized countries) are all entitled and bound.

And that is the fault and danger with PC. <:( <:( <:( <:( <:( <:(

PC does not protect or entitle those who need the protection and entitlement and therefore take away from those that do.

An example, Why should a burglar be able to sue me because he got injured on my property. Why, because he still has his rights by law ? ????  <*< <*< <*< <*<

There are many reported cases here in OZ where "trespassers" were shot and the home owner was charged and convicted. >:-o >:-o >:-o
Logged

yorkiej

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2011, 01:04:05 am »

I think that the videos show nothing more than an XO doing his best to help his crew have a laugh to release a bit of tension during a long operational deployment. To those onboard , and remember the Enterprise has a crew of around 5,000 , these videos will just reflect their own sense of humour , unfortunately to anyone not in the service or a member of her crew when these videos were made they do look pretty unsavoury.

Personally I think the "PC Police" have got to the USN in this case , this shouldn't be a sacking offence and should be seen in the context it was made. A long deployment with operational sorties supporting troops on the ground means people do get short tempered and tempers will fray so anything that helps defuse the situation should not be condemned by people who do not understand the circumstances.

I used to do 21 days at sea on research trawlers and there were times when we were at each others throats simply being working in close proximity to each other for 18 hours a day so I can sympathise with the crew onboard any warship when on a 6 or 9 month deployment especially when its an active combat deployment as most USN Carriers are on since 9/11
Logged

tigertiger

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7,305
  • Location: Kunming, city of eternal springtime, SW China.
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2011, 02:39:56 am »

As an aside.
As the subject of manning levels of the RN Vs the USN ships has  been raised.

I can only draw a comparison between the British and US armies, but the parallels that we see may be relevant. My (UK) unit visited a motor-pool on a US base in Germany. They had about 3x the number of mechanics we would have in the same size unit. They were each highly specialised, for example working on carburetors was the job of a specialist. He probably would never change a wheel bearing. I mentioned to one of the US Sergeants that this was inefficient. He fully agreed, and said that the US army mechanics also found this frustrating.
BUT
There was something the US Army calls 'busy work'. The idea is to keep ALL men occupied in some way, needed when you have larger compliments of men.

This sounds silly if you are running the military as a business, as the UK Ministry of Defense tries to do. But in a war zone (the natural environment for the military) you will take casualties. The more surplus personnel you have, the more operationally effective you can remain if you take casualties. Particularly if you take heavy casualties. All this extra manpower is costly, but the US has never been afraid to spend money on defense.
Logged
The only stupid question is the one I didn't ask

nick_75au

  • Guest
Re: The Big E's Skipper sacked!
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2011, 06:17:08 am »

Until recently, they are planning to cut 87 Billion from their budget through reduction in force by 47000 or so in various branches and  reductions of new projects

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-06/gates-proposes-troop-cuts-78-billion-reduction-in-defense-budget-by-2016.html

Their massive debt is starting to bite back

Nick
Logged
Pages: [1]   Go Up