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Author Topic: HMS Victory rotting away!  (Read 9449 times)

triumphjon

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2011, 11:21:57 pm »

at leadt the waverly is still floating and doing what she was built for ! unlike the victory which is sitting in the dry dock with only the rain to keep her hull moist .
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2011, 11:35:00 pm »

Quote
at leadt the waverly is still floating and doing what she was built for ! unlike the victory which is sitting in the dry dock with only the rain to keep her hull moist .

The thought of Victory offering day trips round the Isle of Wight or to Bournemouth Pier is indeed an intriguinig idea....

Colin
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furball

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2011, 11:51:27 pm »

Victory was in the water until 1922, when she had to be docked permanently because she was in such a bad condition - she wouldn't be around today at all if she wasn't docked.

She's basically been rotting away, with various fixes every now and again, for at least the last 150 years, and it's still going on - she also had the keel cut in two due to bomb damage in WW2.

The fire was probably a godsend for the Cutty Sark, as it was an opportunity to restore it from the ground up - all the steel frames were treated to leach the salt out of them for example.

I don't think the masts go through the bottom, although they are metal - the HMS Victory site says they're wrought iron, and come from a 19C cruiser, HMS Shah - they were steel tubes sheathed in wood, at least in the 60's, as 'The Anatomy of Nelsons Ships' has photos of the main mast step.

Lance
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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2011, 11:17:36 am »

The thing is...

This isn't the Victory as built, or as at Trafalgar, or anything like it.

She was made out of perishable materials over 250 years ago, and what we have today is a collection of parts (some original, many not) with continual bracing and support to recreate the idea of the Victory. She requires constant, regular, expensive maintenance, as any wooden boat does, and as the years pass, there'll be less and less of the original structure, whatever techniques are used to preserve her.

The question has to boil down to "what are we preserving her for"?

If the answer was "to recall our rich sailing heritage during the Napoleonic Era" then I personally would get more out of seeing a dockyard with recreated 74s, 3-deckers and a frigate or two in it; made using traditional techniques, using authentic materials, and with the knowledge that these vessels might have a lifetime of fifty to a hundred years, with care, and then be replaced by new generations trained in these skills. I don't personally need The Victory <tm> soaked in aspic for the next few hundred years, just because she's an artifact.

Andy
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2011, 11:43:58 am »

I don't think that many people believe Victory to be original, neither of course is Warrior for the most part with her GRP 'engines' and guns etc. They are symbols of Britain's naval history with all the associations that brings and the world would be a poorer place without them. Simply constructing ersatz Napoleonic warships from scratch would be just like building a film set, why not go the whole hog and just create them in virtual form?

I visit Portsmouth dockyard frequently as I love the atmosphere and every time I see the Victory towering over her surroundings it evokes a thrill. To me it is unthinkable that she should be broken up.

Colin

And just as a reminder...

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The long Build

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2011, 12:52:18 pm »

There's nothing like taking a young child to see the Victory (or any similar vessel) and watching their face as they look at it.. :-)) even if its raining...

Hope to get back there 1 day..
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furball

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2011, 01:26:29 pm »

Remember the fate of the Implacable...




Lance
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The long Build

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2011, 01:31:44 pm »

French Built was,nt she ?  Hence the French Flag..

Video of the sinking.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=27323
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farrow

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2011, 11:06:30 pm »

The real problem is once she is gone, she cannot be brought back and that sense of history and age plus national pride cannot be replaced. The nation spends 13m some time ago to buy Churchills personal speech notes for the nation from his grandson, plus spend unknown on maintaining castles, etc, why not something on what really represents national pride, why the castles, when they where originally built to subjugate the ordinary populace.
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triumphjon

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2011, 03:07:44 am »

as a plus point she along with the warrior bring thousands of pounds into the local econamy , its open to tthe public every day of the week !
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farrow

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2011, 10:34:42 pm »

Yes as said , once gone, she is gone and cannot be brought back.
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DavieTait

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2011, 08:41:09 pm »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-12280018

Royal Navy to pay for HMS Victory upkeep

HMS Victory, Portsmouth HMS Victory is the world's oldest commissioned warship

The Royal Navy has committed to funding the upkeep of HMS Victory - the warship on which Admiral Lord Nelson was killed at the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805.

The ship is on display in dry dock in Portsmouth as a museum and is one of the area's main tourist attractions.

About 1.5m a year is spent by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) on the maintenance of the vessel, the oldest commissioned warship in the world.

The MoD is about to put a 10-year contract for the work out to tender.

The Battle of Trafalgar reached its peak on 21 October 1805.
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john s 2

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2011, 09:01:40 pm »

Please not out to contract. We all know how sucessful Navy contracts can be. cancelled, overbudget etc. Anyone want an
aircraft carrier? This should ensure the demise of the Victory,and the navy can say it was under contract. John.
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triumphjon

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2011, 09:50:04 pm »

acording to our local news this lunchtime , the restoration / upkeep is to be put out to tender for the next ten years , worth around 1.5 million per annum , the total contract worth 15 million pounds ! NOW  whos up for a bit of large scale modelling ?
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2011, 10:15:06 pm »

I'm wondering if there is a bit of doublethink going on here. I'm sure I recall reading that the annual maintenance budget for Victory is 1.5m pa which seems about right to me as a baseline figure. However, this seems unlikely to be sufficient to remedy the sort of defects in the hull and rigging which were recently reported. My guess is that these repairs would cost far more. If this is the case then all they are doing is ousourcing the day to day maintenance budget and making no provision for restoration work - in other words just keep papering over the cracks (literally) and hoping for the best.

Just wait for the appeal to be launched....

Colin
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gondolier88

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2011, 10:51:48 pm »

I'm wondering if there is a bit of doublethink going on here. I'm sure I recall reading that the annual maintenance budget for Victory is 1.5m pa which seems about right to me as a baseline figure. However, this seems unlikely to be sufficient to remedy the sort of defects in the hull and rigging which were recently reported. My guess is that these repairs would cost far more. If this is the case then all they are doing is ousourcing the day to day maintenance budget and making no provision for restoration work - in other words just keep papering over the cracks (literally) and hoping for the best.

Just wait for the appeal to be launched....

Colin

Exactly- the contractor's probably won't accept it at that level of funding anyway, that is assuming in 10 years time that she will still only need 1.5m to maintain... :o.

A full hull survey for a vessel of her age and size would be easily 300,000+, plus contractors will want incentives/bonuses etc that the MOD doesn't do, also i'm fairly sure (but I'm not 100% on this) that Victory's budget includes income from tourists- I'm fairly sure that will be a bone of contention as that chunk will bolster the MOD's budget, but it won't be the Mod's budget once contracted out so in reality it will be more fdefence funding from the very outset.

Great!

Greg
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yorkiej

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2011, 01:47:10 am »

Perhaps 'Good Old' (no disrespect meant) Sir Richard Branson may give the Old Girl a leg up.
He helps with lots of things.
Has anyone asked him?
He is said to read all emails sent to him. I will give it a try.
John
;D ;D ;D
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2011, 02:28:25 am »

yorkie.......I read your various comments on different threads with interest  O0....but posting words in BLUE ...well   >>:-( this coloured text is reserved for the Moderators of Mayhem........ %% ....Derek
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2011, 01:39:03 pm »

Sorted  :-)
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jonny shoreboy

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2011, 10:13:43 pm »

Apparently HMS Victory is to be sold to some investors in Dubai and will be turned into an artificial reef.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2011, 10:53:16 pm »

They've already got one - it's called the QE2!
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yorkiej

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2011, 12:56:23 am »

yorkie.......I read your various comments on different threads with interest  O0....but posting words in BLUE ...well   >>:-( this coloured text is reserved for the Moderators of Mayhem........ %% ....Derek
I appear to have been chastised for being blue.  At my age I suppose I could be offended, but I am not.  Ignorance of the rules has never been a defence.
I just thought that to emphasise comment in blue was less offensive than say, in red.
Must say Derek that I was in Wollongong for two months many years ago, September/October 1960 to be exact. Suppose it has changed like everything else.
What other colours are acceptable to emphasise comment?
Please advise, even if it is to indulge an old Master Mariner who has more salt in his seaboot socks than most folk have seen salt water.
Kind regards
John
P.S.  Give my regards to Wollongong. Good run ashore there. :embarrassed: :embarrassed:
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derekwarner

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2011, 01:21:52 am »

Hullo yorkiej...... %) ...I simply thought a comment from a humble member may be preferable than a lambasting from one of those Moderator  :police: types ...I must say on balance they act fairly but sometimes in a very sensitive manner  %% >>:-(

I use MAROON as my highlight.....& haven't copped any flak

mmmmmmmm 1960...I had just entered high school......Wollongong......I am sure you would have looked at the night lights from Bulli Tops.....glittering all over the coastal plain of the Illawarra  :D {-) ...loverly place

Yes Wollongong has certainly changed....but like the balance of the world...a lot for the better  O0 but some for worse <*< ..

Again ..... "I read your various comments on different threads with interest"   ....Derek
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Derek Warner

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yorkiej

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2011, 08:21:01 pm »

Hello Derek
Thanks for your advice about text colour and your kind words about my posts.
I appreciate your reasoning that a kind word is better than a bollocking and thank you for drawing it to my attention.
I always wondered why Martin always posted in blue. I now know.
My time in Wollongong was, as best as I can recall, very enjoyable. I had a look on Google at pictures of how it is now. It was nothing like that in 1960. I cannot remember any highrise buildings at all. Some kind locals took a few of us up to the high ground overlooking the town in a van to see the vista from up there. It must have been the heights you mention. I recall that I fell in love for the third time with a girl called Pamela Smethurst. I wonder what became of her.
We were alongside in Port Kembla but as there was very little there from a leisure point of view, we spent all of our times ashore in Wollongong.
The ship was there so long because we had sustained serious damage in a Typhoon en rout from Japan and had extensive repairs before loading steel products for ??? I can't remember.  My recall is not what it used to be.
Thanks again Derek.
Cheers
John
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Shipmate60

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Re: HMS Victory rotting away!
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2011, 08:39:57 pm »

Derek,
You have made my day, sensitive, why thank you sir.
I am usually called things somewhat different.

Bob
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