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Author Topic: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...  (Read 3384 times)

Cam Watterson

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Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« on: January 09, 2011, 02:03:43 PM »

i was given a hull by some friends that found it at a tip. i thought it colud be a herring lugger but i'm not to sure. the hull measures just over 36 ins long (bow of boat to stern) and just under 11 ins wide, from the end of the bow sprit to the stern its just over 47 ins long. does anybody have any idea what this could be or have any info or plans for somthing like this.
many thanks
Cam

***Topic heading modified, and topic moved to get a better response***
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tigertiger

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 08:18:11 AM »

Hi Cam

If this was ever sailed as a model, a lugger rig is unlikely as tacking is not so easy. And I am not familiar with any luggers with a bowsprit.

I am no expert, but this looks like a two master and could well have been a ketch or schooner, although the schooner is more likely. Other possibilities would be a Brig, Brigantine, or Hermaphrodite Brig.


Another thing to consider is that many of the smaller coastal boats changed their rig during their lifetimes.
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roycv

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 08:55:38 AM »

hi, interesting photos. Agree with the remarks by TT. 
It does look a little like the Marie Celeste in Model Boat plans.  If you are going to re-build as a square sail boat then this would be a good starting point.

Also if you wanted a fore and aft sail plan then one of L.R. Armstrong's plans might do.  From memory perhaps the Pearling Lugger, also in Model Boats plans.
Hope this helps and good luck,
Roy
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andrewh

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 12:55:42 PM »

Hi, Cam

Er- not sure :}

Fwiw here is my thinking;

I believe it was single masted, judging by the chains/ratlines, and that would agree with the bowsprit, etc
(there do indeed seem to be two "holes" in the deck, but the forward one is well behind the ratlines - so (imho) it cant be the mast position
That might suggest it was rigged as a gaffer, like a bawley, revenue cutter or lots of other trad boats.

The hull has more a look of a generic pond-yacht of the late 19th early 20th cent - Russell Potts of the VMYG would place it better than I
http://www.vmyg.org.uk/

TT - I don't think that the description "lugger" (of a boat) always implied a lugsail rig, and as you say there would be no need for a bowsprit for a lugsail or two

Looks like a great subject for a restoration
andrew 
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tigertiger

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 01:58:31 PM »

Not so sure about the single mast Andy.

Looking at picture 100 0543. On the port side I think I see two sets of 3 lugs where the shrouds could have been attached, one just aft of the markings I think to be where the fore mast was footed, and one set just aft of the main mast.

It may have started life as a twin master, and then been changed into a cutter at a later date. The chains/ratlines, that look less elegant than the aforementioned shroud points and so may have been an afterthought. And they ratlines look too far forward.

Also the two part bowsprit would suggest a larger vessel than a Bawley. I was thinking of something maybe 70-100 feet length.

But I stand to be corrected.

I agree it looks like a pond sailor. I am not sure if there is tackle for a brain gear on the stern. Pictures of the stern showing any metal bits would help.
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andrewh

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2011, 03:11:55 PM »

Peccavi :((

I was seduced by the ratlines.  I take it that these are the most recent incarnation (since they exist still)

But now that I am invited to observe there are indeed screweyes that correspond well to the two mast holes

So, Cam, you are justified in doing whatever seems good to you (so long as it is reasonably in keeping with the style)
I have a friend with a book called something like "Inshore craft" which details everything from  Solway Shrimper to a Falmouth fruit schooner - is there anything in the small fishing vessels or traders which looks harmonious to you?
andrew
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Cam Watterson

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2011, 07:12:45 PM »

thanks for all the info guys, i'm not realy clued up on sailing boats (more modern trawlers) me and my  grandad would like to do a fishing boat so i thaught maybee a Manx Nicky or Manx Nobby.
thanks
Cam
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tigertiger

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 02:35:35 AM »

Hi Cam

Do you want to sail her, or put her on the sideboard?

As there appear to be no hatches, conversion to RC would not be possible without putting on a new deck. If you are not up to that.

She could easily be turned into a pond sailer. Where you find smaller boating lake, you stand on one side and your grandpa catches her on the other. It may also be possible to fix self steering gear (Brain gear). It would  be useful to see close up photos of the stern, rudder and transom, to see if this has been done before.

You could turn her into anything you want. The hull dimensions may not be correct, but the sail plan is what most people will see (above the water). Balancing the position of the mast, the forces of wind on the sail, the lateral resistance of the hull (as the wind tries to push her sideways) needs a bit of planning; but it is not rocket science.

If you want to know more about this you can ask on here. But I would highly recommend a book that covers this and more and it is only 12.95, and so not expensive.
Radio Controlled Scale Sailing Models by Phillip Vaughan Williams. Available from Traplet.com.

The Traplet site also has photos of models on the plans section. I am not suggesting you buy a plan but the pics can give your further inspiration.
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Jimmy James

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2011, 09:02:42 PM »

I agree that she was a" pond yacht"  I'm thinking she was built as a sloop or cutter and later re-rigged ,as most pond yachts didn't have rudders I think she was built as a child's toy  with a bow spirit and with a single mast and later re rigged with 2 masts and I think the eyelets midships and aft were used to run the braces to from the yards and the steering was a notched bit of brass [or steel) for  the tiller arm . there were lots of this type of vessel sold at the Sea Side back in the late 40's, 50's and 60's for 2s 6d up to 10s.  I had one or two of them myself.
And I re rigged them to a square rig to figh my "Sea battles"as all boys do.
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ben hall

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Re: Not sure what type of [scale sail] boat this is...
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2011, 09:05:49 PM »

it looks like a sort of thames barge
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