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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 821751 times)

Martin [Admin]

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #201 on: June 12, 2007, 08:59:55 AM »

Excellent list lots of information to pour over, pity I can't read German. Many thansk martin for compiling this list.


Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #202 on: June 12, 2007, 09:02:33 AM »

Martin -The only build with motors I have seen so far is the one on the buildthebismarck.co.uk site from the german guy, though its not a on line build but more the promotion of his three motor set-up with a few photos & detail posted of what he has achieved, good idea for a compilation list ;)

Daryl -

The small prop shaft i suspect is to hang the centre non working prop on.

Germany are at issue 40 and cant see any mention of any RC installation so far in there previews.

Battery/cell pack, so far no mention what so ever of the batt pack required or and a charger for that matter (if you dont already have one), my guess is that this will be an item you have to source for yourselves as surely it should have come with there RC pack or as another additional item to buy, I have just emailed Amati the direct question on this so watch this space.

The RC gear from hachette will be on a pay for it in advance basis at some pont along the way, if you compare the 169 Euro being asked in Germany that means it will be around the 115 mark in the UK, not sure if it is good value for a very basic set-up.

Yes the German drive train does seem to differ slighlty from what has been pictured in the UK pull-out part that came with issue 1, Germany seem to have Graupner Speed motors yet the UK ones seem unbranded, not sure about the props, rudders, gears, esc & radio set as the photo only shows the prop shafts & motors, my guess is that the radio set will definately be the Thunder Tiger one shown in Germany as this is what Hachette have been supplying for all there RC product of late, they seem to have some tie-up with Thunder Tiger on RC product.

Possibly your right about the RC installation detail being supplied with the RC pack, it does say on the pull-out leaflet 'we will show you how to modify your ship for the RC version', this suggests it is an afterthought and as such will be installed very late on in the series :o

Recommend we all keep a very close eye on what is being supplied against photos shown, partworks have a habbit of supplying inferior version's of components shown at the outset, not sure what we can do about it as they do have a get-out clause allowing them to do this ???

Its turning out to be a right can of worms ::)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #203 on: June 12, 2007, 09:29:28 AM »

A can of worms is right, I too have looked at the german preview site, can't read the lingo but I thought they would have mentioned in the instructions where to depart from the mag build and go onto the r/c instalation. But as you said this could be later and much butchery could follow. The two pictures I have seen from Germany don't make sense. The bottom one has planking different from the top and no resin part, I assume something will be mentioned in the mag before issue 35 when they say to attach it to the hull. After that point it will be difficult to remove.

Anyone know at what issue the Germans were offered the r/c gear? I take it it was a leaflet included in the mag and not part of the mag?


Daryl


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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #204 on: June 12, 2007, 09:48:55 AM »

Not quite sure when the RC gear was offered in Germany, the odd thing is, so far I have seen any posting's of the offered RC gear having been installed.
So maybe it is on offer but as yet has not been despatched to those who have orderd it, in that case it must arrive after issue 40 as that is where they are at with there build right now, maybe 'Hatchet Job' is the right term ;D
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #205 on: June 12, 2007, 10:07:52 AM »

I'll send an e-mail to Amati, then look for my chainsaw!

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #206 on: June 12, 2007, 10:36:52 AM »

Have just emailed Isabelle to ask the questions of the battery pack/charger & when the RC set is to be offered.

Chainsaw ;D There as some out there who might just consider that option ;D
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #207 on: June 12, 2007, 10:42:19 AM »

just got this interesting reply back from Amati when I asked them approximetly what issue do we install the shafts and R/C gear.

Dear Daryl,

thank you for your message.

We'll deliver goods concerning wooden parts where to fit motors,  battery and servos at the endo of August.

Please stay in touch with Hachette service and they will inform you  about correct date and shafts details.

Best regards

AMATI SpA


Contact Hachette ??? ??? ??? since when did they have a clue as to what is going on. Looks like its around issue 20 give or take 5 or 6 issues?

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #208 on: June 12, 2007, 11:01:18 AM »

Are they specific about this being for the UK or could it be Germany they are talking of?

Am at 16 so will look out for it in the coming mags

No reply to my email to them yet :(
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #209 on: June 12, 2007, 11:24:42 AM »

Good question, I have no idea, assuming the worst if it is Germany then they would be around issue 50-55, they seem to pass the buck to Hachette.

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #210 on: June 12, 2007, 12:17:24 PM »

Hachette will always call the shots as to when items are despatched or made available for purchase and sometimes there methods does not always tie up with when you would normally need them re a build.

Generally where possible they will leave expensive components until as late as poss in the series, this is so that by then they will have a better idea as to how many are likely to see the series thru to its end, and so not tie up money in over ordering components, am told non of what they order from source is on a sale or return basis so they have to use the parts on somewhere or they usually being destroyed, this is why they move parts around the world to a country taking the relevant mag, so it is likely that some of the mag parts we are getting may well be left overs from Germany as it is only the magazine language text that changes.

I know we slate Jacklins but my view is that Hachette are directly responsible as Jacklins are only the fulfilment house and do what Hachette say, if Jacklins are not allocated enough mags to send out then the knock on effect is delays to the customer, they are mainly responsible for the set up of subscriptions and any associated problems or damages, though even this seems to be hard work for them >:(
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #211 on: June 12, 2007, 01:47:52 PM »

no reply so far to my e-mail from Amati asking for clarification on August if they are talking about Germany or the UK.

I have just read on the buildthebismarck.com forum that one of their members received a e-mail from Hachette on the 29th May saying that from issue 23 there will be instructions in the step by step and an offer on the r/c option. This will be confirmed at a later date. Looking on the German preview sites I'll be intersted to see where their issue 23 etc mentions anything about an R/C option?

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #212 on: June 12, 2007, 02:25:39 PM »

No response here either from Amati or Hachette re the battery pack/charger & RC query.

So issue 23 for the RC set offer, not long to go then and will be interesting to see what exactly you get for your hard earned dosh and if it is value for money, though I reckon if you order it you wont be seeing it for quite a while as so far they dont know how many are to go fo it and no doubt there will be a lead time from the supplier.

Hmm just seen that posting re the RC set, seems a bit jumbled to me, in once sense it says from issue 23 you can choose for your model to be RC or static then it goes on to say for those who choose to go RC there will be an offer which will be confirmed later on......So whats that mean then can we you order it at 23 or not ???
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tigertiger

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #213 on: June 12, 2007, 02:31:05 PM »

No response here either from Amati or Hachette re the battery pack/charger & RC query.

So issue 23 for the RC set offer, ... no doubt there will be a lead time from the supplier.

Issue 23 out of 100

Maybe lead time won't be such a problem  ::) ::)
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #214 on: June 12, 2007, 02:35:26 PM »

But if you read my last paragraph its not clear if you can order the RC pack at 23 or it is a future offer to come, not only that surely the later you receive the RC pack the harder it gets to install, yeah you have 140 issues to install RC gear if you put it that way ;D
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #215 on: June 12, 2007, 02:41:33 PM »

I too thought Hachettes reply was as clear as mud! I would prefer to mount the shafts as early as possible. Since I can't read German I don't know what they received with their issue 23, the answers could lie in one of the postings on a German forum but until someone who understands the language trolls through them its guess work.

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #216 on: June 12, 2007, 03:07:10 PM »

Well looking at the German preview for issue 23 the parts supplied are screws to hold the deck plates down. more planking and a stern resin nose cap.
No mention or photos of anything that relates to RC gear, so maybe it is simply a separate leaflet that comes in 23 that allows you to order the RC gear, though reading Hachette's reply re this on the .com site is like you say as clear as mud :-\
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #217 on: June 12, 2007, 03:35:16 PM »

Just looked again at the posting on the .com site, it mentions that from issue 23 the step-by-step instructions will give the oppertunity to make it static or r/c?

I have had a look on a few of the German sites and the pictures don't give any clue as to contol options, I don't know if the text does.

Pity they don't make themselves a bit more clearer, they do ask people to contact them, I hope they reply.

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #218 on: June 12, 2007, 04:04:40 PM »

The build step-by steps for mag 23 certainly do not appear to have any info re RC installation.

Have seen a  posting  saying that in Germany a battery & charger are supplied with the RC pack though the RC packs were due to arrive last Autumn and they are still waiting, now where have I heard that before ::)

Stupid us, if we had looked just below the transmitter photo on the German offer sheet which says 'Das Akku-set (6v 4.5ah) mit Ladergerat'....presumably translates to 6v 4.5ah battery & charger ;D

So for 169 euro (approx 115) you get the 2-channel 40Mhz am transmitter & receiver, 1 servo, AA battery box, 2 motors, 3  propellers, 2.5 propeller shafts, 2 sets of 2:1 gear trains, ESC,  2 rudders,  2 capacitors, 2 motor mounting plates and the 6v battery pack & charger, the offer comes at around issue 20 or so which seems to tie in with it actually being issue 23 ;)

If the delay of receipt is anything like in Germany then you might see the pack for the winter which would be at around issue 50 as Germany are already at issue 40 and have still not received it :o
 
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #219 on: June 13, 2007, 08:02:18 AM »

Have you seen that bit about the German guy with the 3 motor option broke three of the stern resin centre prop shaft forms whilst trying to drill them out for his conversion, god knows how many the inexperienced modellers will go through to get it right ::)

I think to some extent a number of the inexperienced having seen the German guys modified build are jumping straight into it not realising the easier option from Hachette, or maybe there is some assumption of this is the way to go if you want the RC vesion.
The site is now starting to be flooded wth every query in the book re the modified build, this seems to detract from what the site was set up to be, which I might add is way behind in the build against what the curent issue number is.
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #220 on: June 13, 2007, 09:39:40 AM »

I'll go along with with that, I to noticed he had to have several attempts to get it right. The people with a simple pillar dril or hand drill have a very difficult job, an engineering collegue of mine said it is tricky even with a proper engineering shop to do it in.

I too have noticed the trend to jump ahead and get the bits for the three motor set up,I think a lot of people are going to struggle and wreak the hull. This conversion is not for the faint hearted. I have noticed most of the questions are from people who have not tried to do anything like this before and are gettinginto difficult by going off at a tangent with modifications way beyond their capabilities. The German guy does tend to encourage people to buy the stuff he sells, this can lead the novice into territory they havn't the experience to get out of. We think the instructions are pretty good if you follow them.

Some of the questions are entertaining to say the least. But everyone has to start somewhere, help is usually a click of the keyboard away. Difficult bit is deciding which bit of advice is the best one to take.

Haviing run down anyone who wants to depart from Hachette R/C instructions Sam has decided to leave as long as he can his options open by marking as he planks the position of the prop tubes in relation to the slots in the frames. We assume Hachette has a cunning plan to do this at the appropriate time if not we have.

Interesting the way the build is not going on the .co.uk site, looking at what he has done before he has departed from the instructions more than once. I thought the object of the site ( buildthe bismarck.co.uk) was a step-by-step guide to building the bismarck, this guy is way behind on the issues and looks like he has not done anything for some time. I have not checked on his Titanic site to see how that went to guage what he has doen before.

There seem to be a mass exidos to jump ahead and spend 150 ish on r/c gear  way before anyone has had the chance to see what Hachette offers. For the novice theirs may be the best option but as with most things there is more than one way to do it. This point has escaped the attention of quite a lot of builders.

there now off soap box and about to take cover ;D ;D ;D ;D

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #221 on: June 13, 2007, 10:08:28 AM »

 ;D ;D ;D ;D @Daryl

All valid points and a lot to consider for the novice, yeah its great to have an all singing & dancing version, but unless you are very confident and have some experience of what you are getting into then the safest route is to follow the mag build, afterall the mag build advice is supplied by Amati who the kit originates from ::)

I'am surprised the webmeister on the .co.uk site has not stepped in to switch the drift back to his own build but right now he seems to be steering clear of what is going on, am sure it will confuse many with both builds on the go or in actual fact there will be three builds on the go, Static, Hachette RC & German RC.
It would benefit that site to have a separate page where the German guy can answer all his queries and slate the Hachette RC pack to his content, wonder who will pick up the fallout when things start to go wrong?
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #222 on: June 13, 2007, 10:58:39 AM »

Interesting to what constitutes an experienced modeller, I find it is one hobby where you are allways learning and can never have all the answers. The German guy has built three so far according to him, I don't know if any of these are similar the the one he is doing. He is very good and his skill shows in the pictures he has posted, but who knows if he has gone down the right route until the hull is afloat.

There doesn't seem to be much moderation going on with the postings on their forum, one guy has openly advertised scaned copies of the plans in the anatomy of the ship book. Umm bit naughty that. The webmaster has you say is keeping his head down, I wonder why. I did read a post by the German guy which says he got fed up posting on the German web sites due to the flak he was getting, ( no pun or insult intended). I wonder why as with everything there are two sides to the story. he has a good build but I wonder how long his help will streach out to once thing start going pear shap with novices trying to copy what he has done and making a mess of it.

Looking at the list of r/c gear it does not seem to bad value for money, depends on the quality and the appearence once it is installed. I still think it is a bit rash to jump headlong and order loads of r/c gear at around 150 from this guy just yet. I also noticed he quickly put a post up saying he has had a few price increases in his supply of parts and postage increases. The easiest solution but not nessessarily the best is to follow Hachette... for now that is.

We are keeping our options open by marking the position of the tubes where they enter the hull, so later we can fit Hacette, our own or whatever tubes is apropreate.

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #223 on: June 13, 2007, 11:38:28 AM »

I agree, keeping your options open seems the best way forward on this project.

The german guy also sells on ebay germany, so its likley he is out to make a nice little earner if he can attract enough to buy into his goodies hence why he keeps pushing it.
I feel it is a little tactless though for him to to keep branding the available Hachette gear as being rubbish, many will go that route regardless either because they feel comfotable with it, it suits there experience or its what funds will allow, so does that mean there model is rubbish too for have the Hachette RC pack?

Not sure if he has considered this, there is a potential here for some of those who have bought into his system to blame him if things dont work out too well re the installation or the end result floats or goes like a brick :-\
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #224 on: June 13, 2007, 11:59:47 AM »

I forgot he mentioned he sold on ebay, that brings a few points to ponder.

I wonder what Amati/Hacette thinks of him running down their products. This is a double edged sword, if customers make a mess of Part D for instance, then they make money by selling replacements, ( you can't keep saying its broken in transit). But if they make a total mess of the whole hull and give up on the series by going down the route suggested by our German friend then they loose sales.

There are lots of complaints about Jacklins lack of service which I beleive is being looked into by Hachette, but when an individual who looks like he is on a nice little earner by denouncing the Hachette r/c gear and promoting his own might ruffle a few feathers amoungst the Amati/ Hachette sales team. they are not going to maximise their profits by independant suppliers rubbishing their products.

Who is going to sort out the ptoblems which may arise as a direct or indirect consiquence of altering the build plan supplied in the magazine. How far will the German guy go to help before he decides that's it he has made his money and will quietly withdrawfrom the forum. also he is getting cheep advertising direct streight to his potential customer base via buildthebismarck.co.uk. He also does not have the fees charged by ebay nor the cost of setting up and running a web site of his own. Is it me or is this been all carefully thought out ???

Amati/Hachette has invested time and money in designing and sourcing the r/c gear, they might think this guy is only a minor irritation but if his r/c gear takes off then at what point will they have a quiet or not so quiet word to try and slow down or stop his sales drive.

The webmaster of buildthebismarck has been quiet for a while I wonder why, has anyone else noticed that he departs frequently from the magazine build instructions. i thought the whole point of the web site is to help people build it not confuse as seems the case.

Haveing said all that Martin how are you getting on?

Daryl
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