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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 812138 times)

Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #250 on: June 14, 2007, 03:53:29 PM »

I have just remebered, I  read I think it was on here but I can't find it a post announcing the launch of the partwork. it was written by the guy who proof read the mag or at least the historical part of it. I wish I could find out where I read it as a swift e-mail to him might answer a few questions.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #251 on: June 14, 2007, 03:58:54 PM »

Maybe ask for Martins help on that one?

Was'nt joking about Poland ;D

http://www.bismarck.com.pl/BISMARCK4.pdf
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #252 on: June 14, 2007, 04:15:00 PM »

Just spotted an interesting post, The German guy suggests holding the deck on with Magnets. A good idea but it may have its drawbacks. If any of the magnets are by the rx antenna or any other electronic equipment it may induce interferance. I wonder who's make of Tx he is selling, come to think of it I wonder where Thunder Tiger is getting their stuff from.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #253 on: June 14, 2007, 04:29:28 PM »

Thunder Tiger make there own brand of RC equipment called ACE RC, its basic stuff and it works but dont expect any frills, they may also manufacture all the otherparts of the RC set, if not then it is still likely to come form the far east...cheap n cheerful ;)

One thing to look out for is that the RC set in the Hachette RC pack is actuallu 40Mhz am as stated on the German offer leaflet, though this may change for the UK, tell you for why.... I notice the exact same set (Ace Jaguar) that Thunder Tiger supply elsewhere are supplied as 27Mhz am systems :o

You know what the 27Mhz band is like for interference....taxi for Daryl ;D ;D ;D
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #254 on: June 14, 2007, 04:51:36 PM »

couple of years ago my son was racing in a SWAMBC FE series at warminster. the lake is in a deep vally is concrete sided witha  metal bnd all around. Off he went doing quite well, until... his boat with no help from Sam went around the first bouy the wrong way, ( talka bout scatter the convoy ;D ;D ;D). then headed down the lake towards teh kids paddeling poola t about 30-40mph. Sharp turn right, hit the bank bounced off did a 360 turn hit the bank again and stopped with smoke pouring out of the hatch. The only reason it stopped was the battery, esc and rx all ended up on top of each other and shorted causing a small fire which was put out when the water entered through the melted bottom of the ABS hull.

After the laughter sub sided with Sam and I stareing in total amazement I ran and got the bits back with the aid of the rescue boat and waders. I re-built the boat, patched the hole, re-used the rx and on the next run a similar thing happened. Then we changed from ACOMS to a Futaba 40mhz FM. We blamed the fault on cheep Acoms r/c gear, now we use either Hitec or Futaba.

We probibly will use our own r/c gear but who knows time will tell.

Daryl

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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #255 on: June 14, 2007, 05:06:51 PM »

When the radio is the only thing between you and and expensive model you gotta have the best you can afford or what er indoors will allow ;D
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #256 on: June 14, 2007, 08:35:00 PM »

Daryl - Well what do you know, I got the exact box standard reply you got from Jacklins, and they also chose to ignore the query re the battery/charger as they did with your query, there reply is as vague as it could possibly be.

The opening paragraph reads......

"From issue 23, the step by step instructions will give the opportunuity to make the model either static or radio-controlled"

So do we assume they mean that from 23 onwards there will be additional info in the mags for the RC builders of the model which the static builders should ignore?

The 2nd paragraph reads.....

" For the people who choose the RC option, there will be a special offer to get the engine and the RC unit, the offer will be confirmed later on."

The way I read this is there is to be an offer of an RC pack which will be confirmed later on in the series, so basically the offer is not in 23 but later in the series?

Still no response directly from Isabelle at Hachette which may suggest they dont want to reveal any more than what Jacklins have already been told to say.

I notice our mutual friend has chosen not to ignore that guys request for details of what to do re chopping his build (which is already at issue 11) to accomodate the three motor set-up, I did say the guy would get peed off being repeatedly pestered for the info on his set-up, wonder if a vanishing act is part of his build too ;D

Picked up issue 16 today, not far to 23 and all will then become clearer hopefully but not doubt it will only raise further puzzles ::)

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #257 on: June 14, 2007, 10:59:05 PM »

Hi Down Below,
 I too noticed the chap asked twice for pictures, all the advice he got look at previous post. Umm not exactly overflowing with helpful info for his 'customers'. I wonder why he didn't show up on mateyboys buildthetitanic site as he as mentioned he used some of the Titanic gear in his Bismarck. Never heard of a Amati Titanic R/C conversion, I have only seen the hull from the outside so I don't know about internal divisions.

I did see a Titanic at Weymouth but it was unstable, if its there this year I'll ask the builder if I get a chance to see if it is the Amati version.

Interesting posts on the German r/c conversion section. looks like one guy after building up to issue 11 has abandoned the idea of hacking the keel around to install the third motor after asking for more info and getting nothing but look at earlier posts. Wise move I think as the third motor is tricky for a novice and we don't know exactly what is ahead.

Is this the start of people getting wise to the fact that he thinks he knows everything about this build, ( this hobby is a constant learning curve and who know what is ahead but Amati) but has his own intersts at heart. Also he does have a comercial interest in flogging r/c gear, I have noticed he doesn't say what make the Tx is or if its 27 or 40mhz AM or FM. From his pictures the esc's are Mtronics, a fairly decent make. We also know he has fallen out with several german forums.

I am all for accuracy and constant improvement but everyone has to start somewhere and this kit is not the easiest way to be introduced to the hobby. some of the advice given so far on that site is not ideal for this build nor for the inexperienced who needs help and advice not curt replies or too advanced methods with sketchy instructions. Where is the webmaster apart from swaning around south korea. Partworks like should be an advertisment into the hobby, I wonder how many will be put off, pity there is good advice out there on sites like this one where help is readily given. I have wondered over the last few days per haps Hachette should run a helpline for modelelrs who are stuck, a bit like PC World etc. I am sure it would be a money spinner if they employ the right people.

Daryl
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #258 on: June 14, 2007, 11:38:33 PM »

I have just read on the other site a very good post about a guy who has installed the middle shaft after he has started planking. well done to him it sounds like he has succseeded. But I wonder how many will fail. He does admit it is a very difficult, and we shall see how many of these conversions stand up to its maiden voyage, if the reinforcement and waterproofing is not done well.

I wonder how many will check the Lassek props their getting to see if they are balenced and how many will know what to do about it?

Bismarck meets Renault megane ;D ;D ;D ;D

Daryl

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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #259 on: June 15, 2007, 08:08:17 AM »

I notice the webmaster of the site has now removed all the links to copyrighted material, no doubt the owners of it were non too chuft about it being used without there permission, though not a peep from him on anything else thats going on nor an udate in his build which is only at 11 when the latest mag is heading for 17, his forum is being discreetly hijacked and is rapidly turning into the 'Build a three motor version and I can supply the goods' forum.

Also I read that aguy has realised the three motor version is best installed from the start of the build rather than 10 mags in.

I agree Hachette should set up a dedicated helpline re there models, DeAgostini already have this as I know a couple of guys who were directed to it, apparently any call the call centre cant handle is directed some kind of model consultancy business who know all there is to know about the DeAgostini model in question, at least that way you get sound advice and also maybe some good tips on what to do for best if you make a mess of your project, a good move forward in partworks and one that Hachette might learn from, though we do have our suspicions dont we Daryl ;D

I have no sympathy for those struggling with the build where it is obvious they are not following the build step by steps in the mag, then popping obvious questions left right and centre that are answered in the mag, in actual fact you get more info and photos in the mag than what you with most kits.

Think the german guy is being a little irresponsible describing the build of this model and his 3 motor RC installation a"easy with a little help", also the cardan joints may make his drive noiseless but not vibration free as he expressed previously.

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #260 on: June 15, 2007, 09:00:39 AM »

Umm I didn't notice the copyright stuff has been removed, I am not surprised a bit naughty.
So far Sam has found the instructions very good, far better than most kits as you say. The build problems so far seem to stem from lack of reading and skipping stages. Why the rush we have a long way to go.

The guy with the long post mentioned one intersting fact which Sam and I spotted, he has made the slots in the stern frames bigger to accomodate his prop tube. I'm at work now or I should rephrase that I am attending work, but this morning when I was feed our woofs I had another look at the diameter. They do seem a tad small, I hope issue 23 has the answers but I doupt it. It looks like small prop tube and long shaft. when I get home I'll dig out the early issues to see what they dipicted as the shaft tube assembly for the UK.

Daryl
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #261 on: June 15, 2007, 09:13:59 AM »

Just had a look at the picture the Germans had showning the R/C gear( p4 on here). It does seem a bit big for the diameter of the slots in the rear frames.

Just spotted post from the webmaster who has woken up!! sounds like someone gave him earache about the copyrighted stuff. He should have been on to that straight away. I wonder whan we shall get a binder as the pages are coming loose at home.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #262 on: June 15, 2007, 09:19:21 AM »

Yes your right about the small prop shaft indentations and it does look as you say, am looking forward to seeing issue 23 for hopefully further clarity of there RC plan, though Germany had this ages ago so I suppose the geman guys three motor build has taken this ito consideration, it might also be a reason as to why he has now got vibes.

Did you manage to find a pic of his complete RC Titanic anywhere?

Not sure what issue the binders are supposed to arrive or if they are foc, they normally try to include them on your invoice at something like 5.99 which is poor valuue for money, I put my mags into a 99p ring binder or 'aquire' one from work ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #263 on: June 15, 2007, 09:26:46 AM »



I'll have a read of his buildthetitanic forum later and see what that was like( boss wonders what I am doing?).

I think I saw a post on .com or .cu.uk which said the binders are free for subscribers and cost 4 for everyone else. I don't beleive that as normally they charge about 5 which as you say is a bit dear. We should ahve one arriveing soon I would have thought. The DVD should arrive in the next batch I wonder if the Germans had theirs with batch 4?

I had a look last night to try to find pictures of the German Titanic but couldn't find any. I wonder if he got it to work, I ahve only seen a couple of R/C Titanics one at 1/144 and the Weymouth model at about 3-4 ft long, both were a bit unstable when turning and both owners didn't sail them when it was choppy. Titanic does not seem to convert to r/c well with a narrow beam.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #264 on: June 15, 2007, 10:24:28 AM »

re the Titanic...probably why Amati & Hachette did not go down that route with there kit, but it seems an odd one or two did, cant say I have seen any RC converted ones around of the Hachette kit, from what you say about the one you saw it sounded a bit of a handful, some things simply do not transfer too well into RC versions.
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #265 on: June 15, 2007, 10:33:01 AM »

Now I am going off at a tangent a bit, not very many posts on buildthetitanic.co.uk forum, all of them were from this year and most about the bismarck ???

I did look on his week by week build, true to form he seems to deviate from the step-by-step instructions as he mentions several times his own way of doing things. I did however find build week 11 interesting, he glues together all of the keel parts which seem to go up to the main deck level, then he puts in all of the frames which are like the keel solid and go all the way up to the main deck level. This leaves a series of small boxes, creating enough room for radio gear involves an emormious amount of cutting. It is easier to scratch build the hull than remove about 70% of the frame work. The r/c conversion is not impossible but is extremely difficult and I can't see its worth the trouble. I looked on the web and can't see anyone who has done this, but I have seen lots of people asking if it can be done but seem to abandon the idea and build it static.

Back to the Bismarck, I agree there is more than one way to do things but the buildthebismarck site only gives the 3 motor view. I think comercial interests are at work somewhere.

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #266 on: June 15, 2007, 11:16:58 AM »

Notice a guy planning to stick with the available RC pack build, but nobody there seems to want to comment or encourage him.
Seems some are bit like sheep being lead, thinking that the 3 motor version has to be the way to go which also seems to have hijacked the site somewhat.
You would think he must be coming to the end of those who intend to buy into the 3 motor set-up as the series is just about at 17 in the UK and the Hull  is well down the route of being planked, mind you there are those out there who sit with unopened mags for quite a while with the project in mind to start later on, not a bad thing  as it allows you to consider all options and what the outcome might be for some routes.
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #267 on: June 15, 2007, 11:27:05 AM »

I think a disapearing act is on the cards, he doesn't seem to helpfull now. I assumehe is watching therest of Europe to see where Hachette launches it next, Holland is my guess judging from a  post ealier from a dutch guy saying Hachette is normally 3 or 4 months behind the UK.

I think the penny has dropped on some over there that his 3 motor set up is very tricky and not as easy as he makes out. Did you see the post from the guy who propped his Part D on a pillar drill and still had problems with getting a hole through at the correct angle.

looking on the .com site the webmaster put a post on the r/c thread saying he is going for the 2 motor set up most likly from Hachette. Our German friend has not surface there and is not on the members list as far as I can see. Food for thought.

Daryl

Daryl
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leaky

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #268 on: June 15, 2007, 12:29:50 PM »

Are three motors really necessary its not the biggest of kits is it or am i setting myself up for a lecture on ship dynamics ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #269 on: June 15, 2007, 12:41:31 PM »

Hi leaky,
That's a good question, the boat is not that big so I think 2 will be more than enough, so does Hachette in an e-mail they sent me. Weight of the total model is a worry, apart from Amati who knows what trimming it would need to float to the correct waterline. Endurance is another thought 1 more motor means bigger battery= more weigh or less running time.

On the other site the german guy has hijacked the forum there and denounces anything but his equipment. Hachette says two motors is plenty. I think from looking at models of a similar size/scale the finished model should weigh around 10kg. What the boat weighs without r/c gear is anyones guess, Hachette in Germany hints they will supply a gell cell 6v just over 4ah, this must weigh in the region of 800grms to 1kg. plus ESC, motors etc. then there is the job of altering the keel not very easy to say the least.

Daryl


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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #270 on: June 15, 2007, 12:58:34 PM »

Leaky - 3 motors will certainly make it fast, the question is do you really want a speed boat Bismarck that might sit low at the stern as it powers thru the water?

Daryl - Did you see the about me note on the web site of the kit car you mentioned, as follows: "My other hobbies include building models, mainly static models of cars but there is a few odd balls amongst my collection."

So one might ask does he have any experience of RC, also the only other ship model appears to be the Titanic which is not finished.

This might explain why there is no mention on the forum of which version he is to run with be it static or RC, unless it has slipped me by, my guess having read the above is that it will be static, so maybe no RC expertise hence why the RC banter has been left to the german guy ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #271 on: June 15, 2007, 01:08:15 PM »

I agree, he seems not to have much R/C experience with boats. He has posted on the .com site his last being at the end of May when he hints at using the Hachette gear.

With the current post on there from Fishtank2007 I wonder if the german guy will respond. His sales chart must be dipping a bit by now. still no one has asked what frequency AM or FM and what make he is supplying, the photos show graupner motors and Mtroniks esc's, at least we hope Hachette will show us a picture of their gear.

With this model I think two motors will provide enough power, something like graupner 400's, I have one in a ORSV about the same size as this Bismarck but the hull is a bit brick shaped. The speed 400 powers it well and we have only 1 in it. Bismarck is a bit more hydrodynamic than our ORSV so should do better.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #272 on: June 15, 2007, 02:06:01 PM »

Very sensible concerns by fishtank, I see he has also posted it on the .com site with some sensible advice having been given.

My question would be what would the novices have done if they did not stumble across the various options?

Very likley they would have stuck with the offer pack andl been very happy at then end, sometimes its better you dont let your head run away with things you stumble across, it can complicate things further and then lead you down a track you  might come to regret.
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #273 on: June 15, 2007, 02:25:59 PM »

I agree, this boat will take a few hours, and is not as easy as the blurb from Hachette says. Westbourne's should put him on the right track. At last some sensible advice on there. Now waiting to see if anyone resonds on the .co.uk site.

Still puzzeled over the size of the slots on the frames where the shafts are suppoed to go. Looking at the picture of the german gear I am not convinced yet that they are big enough. I suppose we will have to wait until Germany gets their set sometime in august if the e-mail we have been getting is to be beleived.

I think this weekend junior and I had better think about this and decide which way to go, Hachette gear or our own. I have the upmost sympathy for novices who are starting on this and getting confused by the rush for 3 motors, the German's stuff is overly complicated for the beginner, and come to that someone who knows what they are doing..... sort of. I would like to think Amati/Hachette has this all worked out and is relativly idiot proof.

Daryl

I am sure Hachette has misssed a trick in not having a modeling helpline.
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #274 on: June 15, 2007, 03:09:14 PM »

Am sure Amati/Hachette have it all covered, the only difference being the actual quality of what you get in the RC pack against what you might prefer, just becuase you buy better quality does not necessarily mean it will go better.
Something to consider is also a case of how often you are likley to sail it, a lot are building this model for the love of building with a view to maybe sailing her as and when it suits, its not what you would describe as a fun/sports model to thrash around the lake, though with three motors and hyperdrive it might be :)
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