Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job? (Read 1418934 times)

Down below · « **Reply #300 on:** June 20, 2007, 10:13:02 am »

I think we all are going to end up with a Bismarck that is not accurate if you follow the build steps unless that is you alter the detail yourself, this seems to make a mockery of what the kit was advertised as "an accurate scale model" which makes me annoyed as I now feel I have been mislead.

Would love to be a fly on Hachette/Amati's wall today, they have a serious fire to put out here or will they assume that regarding accuracy most will just build the model and take it as it is with no come back on them?
If so this is wrong as they should not be allowed to get away with it, you dont buy a brand new Porche to discover it has bits in the wrong place and missing spec >:(

I just hope that the facts are right as news of this is spreading like wildfire, the writer of the letter does seem to know what he is talking about and seems best placed to comment as it appears he is a Bismarck buff, I cant wait to hear what Hachette have to say about the matter and what they intend doing about it ???

Daryl · « **Reply #301 on:** June 20, 2007, 11:14:50 am »

Intersting post on the .co.uk forum about pins? and where to get them, hasn't the guy heard about stationers?

Hachette needs to make a statement quickly, they took their time over the issue 4 cancellation letter which did not reflect well on them, then their explanation did not ring of the entire truth. I think the people who have bought into this need to know where they stand as regards to accuracy and quickly. The whole partwork is degenerating into a shambles.

The guy who wrote the historical script for the mag Joesef Kaiser who is renowned expert would be the ideal person to ask about the level of his input into the design and answer the questions Dirk et al as raised.

Daryl

Peterm · « **Reply #302 on:** June 20, 2007, 11:57:37 am »

I had originally considered building this thing. All thiis controversy makes me glad I didn`t bother. PeteM

Down below · « **Reply #303 on:** June 20, 2007, 12:10:45 pm »

Well it does appear it is turning into a bit of a damp squib, I'am at issue 17 and seriously considering where I go from here, what else is to come to light or what are we to discover as further down the line that then makes ones losses significant for you to pull the plug :'(

It makes you wonder if an actual prototype does exist for this model other than it possibly being in electronic format alone ???
If the finished article had been put under the nose of Kaiser before Amati gave the go ahead for its release to production then surely he would have easily instantly pointed out any inaccuracies, or maybe he did see it and did pass commet to that effect, but maybe then both Hachette & Amati thought the inaccuracies could be got away with?

I suspect that many building this model would have not realised the inaccuracies had they not been poited out :-\

Any build problems relating to the design are Amati's problem and not it seems that the advertised info of the model being accurate is Hachette's major headache :'(

A right can of worms this is turning out to be >:(

Daryl · « **Reply #304 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:01:41 pm »

just noticed on the buildthebismarck.co.uk site there is a special offer for the book anatomy of the ship for £25. Just looked on Amazon they sell it for £21, intersting reviews, both not complementary, one even says the drawings are wrong.

As a neutral more or less in this controvisy regarding differencies between the Amati bismarck and th German forum peoples opinions I have several thoughts.

1/ where did Amati get their information from, we know they put the anchor in the wrong place.

2/ if they consulted the 'original' plans then when were they drawn and did any changes occur after they were drawn to allow for supply/engineering problems after all they did have a war to run.

3/ where did the germans who are complaining get their information from is it photo's, after all it didn't have a very long life.

4/ Everyone makes mistakes, who checked the design to make sure they got it right, if they did why did they miss the anchor position, which is very clearly shown in several photos.

5/The germans mention the ports for the turbines are wrong in dimentions and the wrong number of them. How did they work that out? they are below the waterline and as far as I can see not in any picture I have seen. Did they get the information from plans if so how accurate are the plans. The ones in the Anatomy of the Ship book are reputed to contain errors.

6/ This is a hard one to answer with the 'problems' highlighted so afar does it really make a difference. How accurate can we resonably expect the model to be. In war time things change quickly and without documentation.

Now where did I put that tin hat

Daryl

Daryl · « **Reply #305 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:30:49 pm »

The controversy has not yet made it on to either of the two Bismarck enthuisiasts sites
www.bismarck-class.dk or www.kbismarck.com
these sites are full of Bisamrck experts I would have thought that someone who as issues with the accuracy would have posted on their forums. It would be interesting when they do, or to put it another way fan the flames a bit more.

Daryl

Down below · « **Reply #306 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:41:44 pm »

It might be that the originator of the letter is a member of one or both sites hence the expertise.

The German findings are based on what has been built so far plus what is being passed to them direct from Amati in the previews.
If you read Sergio's response it he mentions the provision of the preview issue #51, this is way in advance of this mag hitting the streets in Germany as there build is only at issue 42.
This also answers the previous query of how many mags in front of the actual build Amati/Hachette have in hand, seems to be 9 or 10

So, I presume the Germans are simply basing there findings on what has been supplied to date plus the preview mags, even so this only gives then up to 51 but maybe enough to genearte the letter, so one might ask what other errors might we to discover, at 51 it just over a third of the way in to completion.

It seems that someone in Germany is carefully comparing the Hachete build against a Bismarck plan of some description, though this plan may not be quite the same as the plan that Amati have.

Who is right or wrong will come to light but all the same there are most definately problems such as the location of the Anchor, this is clearly wrong, as for the portholes etc etc then someone in Germany seems to be well clued up on how it should be, or it could be that they have got it very wrong due to having wrong plans?
Surely Amati and the German guy cant both be right

The highlighted Anchor error is such an obvious error on Amati's part, it makes you wonder what else have they got wrong.
It could well be that the German guy has hit the mark in what he says and at the moment it does appear he is very close to the truth, if so then both Amati & Hachette had better invest in some serious head gear as tin hats wont save them from the fallout

Daryl · « **Reply #307 on:** June 20, 2007, 01:59:32 pm »

The german guy Dirk has said he will post some pictures of the previews on the.co.uk site and some pictures of the corresponding section of the real thing. I hope he does as this will generate more questions to Amati. With the anchor Amati (Sergio) has said they were at fault, he doesn't however say how they made that error.

At the minute I would tend to go with Dirk, but what of the rest of the issues. As for the plans some of the Blomn & Voss material ended up in Russia who has just realeased them for public consumption. I hope Amati comes up with answers soon.

Daryl

Down below · « **Reply #308 on:** June 20, 2007, 02:38:20 pm »

Or maybe if they choose to stay silent maybe they think we will all go away and just get on with it >:(

For me I want to know asap exactly what the score is so I can then make my own informed choices as to what to next, one thing for sure, I dont expect to pay top notch money for a half baked concept.

What Hachette will be very mindful of now is that many may now throw there models back at them demanding a refund or compensatuion for the model not being accurate as was advertised.

In supplying goods which are not as advertised the the door is wide open to sling your ships back to them for a full refund, Trading Standards will tell you that Hachette dont have a leg to stand on

Daryl · « **Reply #309 on:** June 20, 2007, 02:51:21 pm »

All the more reason for hachette to pull their finger out and get us some answers.

Daryl

Down below · « **Reply #310 on:** June 20, 2007, 04:06:35 pm »

Was just having a sneaky laugh at the 'Anatomy of the Bismarck' book which is for sale on the .co.uk site which is being sold at a specal price....er now we know why, have a read of review of this book on the link below and see what I mean.........

http://www99.epinions.com/content_315487325828

Two out of a five star rating!....I like the bits about it having an" incomprehensible scale system, poor photographs" and "the most famous battleship of all time desreves way better than this"........So that's where Amati got there original scaling plans from

Daryl · « **Reply #311 on:** June 20, 2007, 10:23:28 pm »

Amazon sells the book for £21 and it has a couple of reviews both bad. Is this where they are getting some of their information from?

I looked on the forum Dirk on the buildthebismarck.co.uk forum mentioned but as far as I can see on none of the posts are the pictures he mentions. it doesn't help that I can't read german but as far as I can tell there are no links either, baffling.

Daryl

Daryl · « **Reply #312 on:** June 21, 2007, 09:04:05 am »

Something odd about the previews dirk says he has got, Hachette we all know and hate are not exactly coperative at times so how did he get his hands on them?
I also had a look at the german preview site at issue 42, that issue comes with the first row of portholes for the hull, I have looked at photos and I can't see any missing or in the wrong place, but the picture of the bow from the preview is smalla nd at a bad angle so I could be barking up the wrong tree. It would do his credibility a world of good if those 'pictures ' he claims prove his complaints are published. There is a possibility that Amati may be right, the admit they got the anchor wrong.

Daryl

Down below · « **Reply #313 on:** June 21, 2007, 11:52:08 am »

The previews are coming direct from Amati to the Die Graue Flotte forum who appear to have set this up direct with Amati, Dirk is merely the messenger though he does also confirm the letter findings.

Having said that, I bet Hachete aint too chuft about the way in advance previews being passed on by Amati, it takes control from Hachette who's series this is and who ultimately have responsibilty.

The Anchor position is most definately wrong and Amati have already admitted this, such a stupid error to make as its position is quite clear from any of the archive photos of the ship, so one might well ask if they got such a simple thing wrong then what else is wrong?
No doubt the germans are digging deep and going over everything with a fine toothed comb as it does appear they now have the bit between there teeth for explanations and answers from both Hachette & AmMati, SO far a little disappointing as I dont see any speedy action from either to address the situation ::)

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #314 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:22:38 pm »

I've got some work to do on my Bismarck then!!

Down below · « **Reply #315 on:** June 21, 2007, 12:34:44 pm »

Typical Hachette and your still behind , I picked up 17 yesterday

Daryl · « **Reply #316 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:01:35 pm »

we have upto issue 11, I have read that some people this week had issues 12-15. We expect something to drop through the letter box anyday now.

Daryl

Martin (Admin) · « **Reply #317 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:19:39 pm »

What are all these bits of wood for?!?! ::)

Daryl · « **Reply #318 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:21:03 pm »

camping fire

Daryl

Down below · « **Reply #319 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:23:41 pm »

Er.... for building a ship that looks like the Bismarck, any left overs are the accuracy bits

anmo · « **Reply #320 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:28:57 pm »

Quote from: Mayhem - Forum Admin on June 21, 2007, 03:19:39 pm

What are all these bits of wood for?!?! ::)

The way things seem to be heading, Daryl could be uncomfortable close to the truth.

Down below · « **Reply #321 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:40:09 pm »

Just had a short email from Isabelle at Hachette UK, she says they are looking into all the points raised from the German letters as a matter of urgency and will be in touch again once the detail has been fully investigated.

Short n sweet but and at least they the matter taking it seriously

Got any matches Anmo?

Daryl · « **Reply #322 on:** June 21, 2007, 03:44:29 pm »

just looked on the two general bismarck information sites

General Bismarck information: http://www.bismarck-class.dk/
" " " : http://www.kbismarck.com/

and there is nothing about the current aligations of accuracy problems. I would have thought dirk et al would have posted on there to make everyone who is intersted in the Bismarck aware of what he has found. They are the two main Bismarck interest sites on the planet.

At least its good Hachette is acting quickly.

Daryl

Down below · « **Reply #323 on:** June 21, 2007, 04:18:09 pm »

I agree they seem to be the top German Bismarck sites but the Hachette kit does not even appear on the list of Bismarck kits available no does it appear in any reviews or build articles, though I have come across a build on the forum of the K Bismarck site which looks mighty similar, though a little confused as one minute it starts off as being 1:200 and then goes to 1:100 seen here http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=4062

You can use a translation site such as Google Language for a broken german text to get the jist of it.

All the same you would think that both sites have people that could advise on accuracy so yes it does seem a little odd why there is no mention

Only time will tell if Hachette/Amati are acting quickly on this, talk is afterall cheap :-\

Daryl · « **Reply #324 on:** June 21, 2007, 08:48:49 pm »

It would be intersting to see what the two specialist sites say, I will register with one and ask. I wonder why the guy Dirk has gone quiet after making such as fuss.

Daryl

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