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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 812565 times)

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #375 on: July 05, 2007, 12:03:14 PM »

Its going to be a very interesting build ;)
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #376 on: July 06, 2007, 06:14:15 PM »

hi folks!

i'm the german guy everyone was talking about earlier in this thread concerning those drive sets.
i think is's time to clear the air:

1. i'm not a professional seller, just a bismarck builder trying to help other people
2. yes, i make a little money selling those sets, but it's not much if you take a closer look at the prices - shipping the packet to UK (17 euro) is paid by me
3. my hull is already sealed, her maiden voyage was successful
4. the price corrections were necessary after i sold some items cheaper than i paid for them
(example:  sold props for 40 euro, cost me 39 euro + 10 euro postage...)
5. the titanic converted to r/c was the one from mantua models in 1:200, not from amati
7. i'm not working for lassek, i just order props/rudders there and send them to UK

i know that building in a 3-motor-setup is not for the faint hearted, but who manages to plank the hull should also be able to get the motors in. absolute beginners should begin with an easier ship, not with a wooden partwork.
i already ran my bismarck, additional 2kilos were necessary to give her a good draft. she lies very stable in the water, even when turning - although i must admit there is still some superstructure to come.
of course i support all guys having bought drive sets via email or in the .co.uk forum if they encounter any problems
the reason for not-posting anymore in german forums is simply the amount of faultfinders there
i don't think that my way of motorizing the bismarck is the only right one, but i do think that it's by far better than the offered one from hachette

hope i pointed out everything

cheers

markus

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #377 on: July 06, 2007, 06:25:36 PM »



Hi Markus and welcome to the Mayhem!

How will you be selling the motor sets, only on ebay, or how can we order direct?
Also, do the motor sets come with props, shafts, couplings and motors?
What about spare props?
Left and right handed props?


I will be ordering a 2 motor set ( I'm very faint hearted!  :-[ )

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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #378 on: July 06, 2007, 07:54:51 PM »

hello!

first of all:

i didn't start posting here to sell more drive sets than usual
i just wanted to post my opinion to previous messages which i partly found a bit unfair - i never intended to push unexperienced modelers to buy my 3-motor-setup and leave them alone afterwards.
as far as i'm informed all buyers of that 3-moter setup (uk and germany) managed to install it, although some of them had quite radical methods to cut the keel plate for the 3rd shaft

________________________________________________________________________________________________________

of course you can buy them direct, this is also my favourite due to expensiveness of ebay.de
these sets come complete with all your mentioned parts, motors are already mounted in bracket
the sets contain 2 left and 1 right handed prop (nylon)
if desired i can deliver you 3 spare props without further costs
so this set can be yours for 60 euro when transferring to my bank account. paying via check is more expensive due to bank charges
you'll find more details in the .co.uk forum, just drop me an email

cheers

markus


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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #379 on: July 06, 2007, 09:33:15 PM »


Justad a quick go at the bow planking... does this look right? ???
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PSSHIPS

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #380 on: July 06, 2007, 09:49:41 PM »

Martin, if I was building that I would plank from keel up , top down won't be too good in my experience of plank on frame, just my thoughts, my plank on frames are a bit bigger normally. Its the way I would do it anyway.
 I hope this helps. :)
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John W E

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #381 on: July 06, 2007, 10:03:42 PM »

Hi ya Martin

PSShips has already said, start from the keel and work up at least 5 planks from the keel, that is 5 planks either side of the keel and remember to stagger your joints - e.g. - if you put a join on a plank on say frame 6, the next row of planking you put on must be staggered either one frame forward or one frame aft, e.g. say jointed on frame 5 or jointed on frame 7.  What you must avoid are all the joints on the same frame - one after another as is shown on your photograph.

Hope this is of some help.    If I wasnt in the sulks over not being able to get to Weymouth show I would put a pic on to show you.

aye
john e
bluebird
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #382 on: July 06, 2007, 11:20:23 PM »

yes, this looks alright
starting planking at the keel is not a good idea because this will make it almost impossible to get a good recess on both sides of the hull
planking from deck to kell gives you also the opprtunity to screw the flat keel on a jig while planking both sides
some of us in germany planked without jig which resulted in a warped hull

here's how the recess looks when finished:

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PSSHIPS

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #383 on: July 06, 2007, 11:31:18 PM »

Planking from the keel is the way its been done for hundreds of years!



Slightly moderated !
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #384 on: July 06, 2007, 11:52:14 PM »

Planking from the keel is not a good idea? Its the way its been done for hundreds of years?
 I fear another "numpty " attack comming on ??? ??? ???

this is why i said '..not a good idea'

pic1:
how will you get thecorrect height for the recess when planking from keel to deck?
this will make it necessary to modify the first plank under the recess

pic2:
if you take a closer look at the shape of the hull you will notice the keel is flat - the deck rises slowly towards both ends
this makes it easy to screw the keel on a jig and start planking from deck to keel



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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #385 on: July 07, 2007, 09:21:15 AM »



I'm building my Bismarck "as per instructions" ... something not natural to me!  ::)
The instruction say, "First plank at the top."
I've also seen on the German builder sites that most builders are screwing the whole thing down with metal brackets!  ... not me!  :o

I'll be going around afterwards with a fine water sprayer, damping down the hull and twisting it back into shape... or lots of filler!  ;)


Markus, what's that stick of dynamite polystyrene  in the centre of you hull??!??

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #386 on: July 07, 2007, 09:36:03 AM »

Hi Marki

A nice looking build you have there, I agree with your comments on this model not being recommended as a first wooden ship project and your spot on about the need for experience to install 3 motors and all it involves.

I'am curious, what exactly do you mean when you say your model is sealed and had a successful maiden voyage?

In your last photos the resin bow is not in place and the prop shafts/props do not appear to have been secured, also the hull outer & inner skin's appear to be bare wood, what did you use to seal the hull inner/outer surface's to make this maiden possible?

John
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #387 on: July 07, 2007, 09:45:20 AM »



I'm building my Bismarck "as per instructions" ... something not natural to me!  ::)
The instruction say, "First plank at the top."
I've also seen on the German builder sites that most builders are screwing the whole thing down with metal brackets!  ... not me!  :o

I'll be going around afterwards with a fine water sprayer, damping down the hull and twisting it back into shape... or lots of filler!  ;)


Markus, what's that stick of dynamite polystyrene  in the centre of you hull??!??



hello martin

the 'stick of dynamite' are 6 cells 9000mAh soldered together
the polystyrene cover has 3 functions:
1. keeping the cells in the middle of the hull
2. cells can pushed in horizontal direction (adjustable ballast)
3. hopefully prevents the ship from sinking if water comes in

don't get me wrong, martin - but...

after reading the post '..numpty attack..' i'm playing with the thought of stopping posting in this forum

cheers

markus



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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #388 on: July 07, 2007, 09:59:17 AM »

Hi Marki

A nice looking build you have there, I agree with your comments on this model not being recommended as a first wooden ship project and your spot on about the need for experience to install 3 motors and all it involves.

I'am curious, what exactly do you mean when you say your model is sealed and had a successful maiden voyage?

In your last photos the resin bow is not in place and the prop shafts/props do not appear to have been secured, also the hull outer & inner skin's appear to be bare wood, what did you use to seal the hull inner/outer surface's to make this maiden possible?

John


the hull is already double planked and sealed
for sealing i used 'glattfix' from graupner, i applied it once on the inside and 4 times on the outside.
now the outside is totally even and waterproof
the pics are not actual, by the time bow part is mounted, outer profshafts are glued in, only the outer supports are missing
so i went to a near lake and put her with 2 cola bottles into the water.
now i can say that lassek props are well balanced, but she's a bit slower than with the nylon props

markus
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Cargo

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #389 on: July 07, 2007, 11:18:58 AM »


... after reading the post '..numpty attack..' i'm playing with the thought of stopping posting in this forum

cheers

markus

Keep up the good work Markus!

Lass dich nicht von den ewig Gestrigen ärgern und vor allem lass solchen Leuten nicht kampflos das Feld hier  ;)
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #390 on: July 07, 2007, 11:51:49 AM »




Hi Markus, sorry about that. The forum is a bit of a free-for-all and member can have pretty rigid ideas about certain things.
I hope you will stick with us on this forum.... I need all the help I can get with the Bismarck build!
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?

Do You have your own website?

Martin.

PS. Thanks Jan..... I have no idea what that said but I'm sure it was something positive.
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #391 on: July 07, 2007, 12:01:22 PM »




Hi Markus, sorry about that. The forum is a bit of a free-for-all and member can have pretty rigid ideas about certain things.
I hope you will stick with us on this forum.... I need all the help I can get with the Bismarck build!
When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?

Do You have your own website?

Martin.

PS. Thanks Jan..... I have no idea what that said but I'm sure it was something positive.


let's wait and see
no, don't have the time to run an own site

markus
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #392 on: July 07, 2007, 12:15:26 PM »

When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #393 on: July 07, 2007, 12:23:22 PM »

Just a small hint when you do start to sand use a block of wood, I use self adhesive paper but thats because I have problems holding but it makes it easier, or just wrap it around the block , It stops you getting "voids" and makes it flow without hollows, you will have to do some by hand but have a straight edge handy to check its flat.   

unless it says different in the instructions.

Peter

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #394 on: July 07, 2007, 12:46:25 PM »

Marki

Any chance of a photo of your build up to issue 43 just so we can see what to expect by that stage?...we are only at issue 19 in the UK

Thanks

John
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #395 on: July 07, 2007, 01:08:32 PM »

Marki

Any chance of a photo of your build up to issue 43 just so we can see what to expect by that stage?...we are only at issue 19 in the UK

Thanks

John

of course:

http://www.buildthebismarck.co.uk/othersframe.htm

markus
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #396 on: July 07, 2007, 01:12:42 PM »

When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?


sanding is done after hull is completely planked
the second planking has different measurements, so offset is given

markus
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mark_1984

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #397 on: July 07, 2007, 01:26:07 PM »

When do I start sanding the planking?
Is the 2nd layer of planking offset to the first?


Hi Martin,

Sand the first planking once it's completed.  You want a well finished surface to apply the second layer planking to.

By the way, I've finally received my latest issues and have made a start on the planking.  www.buildthebismarck.co.uk

Cheers
Mark
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #398 on: July 07, 2007, 02:36:42 PM »

Just a small hint when you do start to sand use a block of wood, I use self adhesive paper but thats because I have problems holding but it makes it easier, or just wrap it around the block , It stops you getting "voids" and makes it flow without hollows, you will have to do some by hand but have a straight edge handy to check its flat.   

unless it says different in the instructions.

Peter


Peter is right, If you're sanding something like a planked hull, you will NEVER get a good result, without high & low spots and rounded-off corners, unless you use a sanding block. I use a hard rubber block for larger areas, something with a little 'give' in it is better than wood as it follows the contours of the hull better. You should only use hand held abrasive paper (very carefully) on fairly sharp curves, and I often make contoured blocks from balsa for jobs like these. Another advantage of using a proper sanding block to support the paper, is that you'll remove a lot less material in achieving a flat surface, you're only going to sand the raised areas not the hollows, which is what you want to achieve . Using hand held paper without a block has a name in some trades, it's called 'finger-f*cking', because that's what you'll do to whatever you're working on.
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Cargo

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #399 on: July 07, 2007, 03:14:12 PM »


 

Martin.

PS. Thanks Jan..... I have no idea what that said but I'm sure it was something positive.


Hi Martin,

it is one thing to have a rigid opinion but its a totally different way to communicate this opion. We have only the written words here, so better thing twice before posting.  ;)

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