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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 818386 times)

Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #450 on: July 11, 2007, 10:05:58 AM »

Kayem, when you advised against using filler is that because the differing hardnesses between the filler and wood could lead to high spots when sanding down? If so, then what about using an easy sand filler such as P38 which is probably softer than the wood and would be easier to apply than glue between the planks? If it was a normal scratch build then application of resin to the inside of the hull would certainly stiffen it up - but not until the gaps in the planking have been sealed from the outside.
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kayem

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #451 on: July 11, 2007, 10:27:57 AM »

Kayem, when you advised against using filler is that because the differing hardnesses between the filler and wood could lead to high spots when sanding down?

Partly that Colin, but I was also thinking about the adhesive that 'Bodger', sorry Martin, is going to use to fix the second layer of planking, if it's a wood adhesive of some kind, it won't stick to P-38. Don't know if the type of wood has been mentioned, but it looks as if it could be lime of some kind, which will sand fairly evenly with a polyester filler, though it really shouldn't be necessary to use any filler at this stage, unless there are big discrepancies in the plank runs. I hope Martin doesn't think we're all making fun of him, he's clearly needing skills that he hasn't had to employ before, but all the points we're discussing which seem very obvious to us, should have been covered in the instructions, can we take it that they weren't ? Surely they must have mentioned gluing all the plank edges and staggering the joints? I'd say it would be virtually impossible to achieve an even result doing it the way Martin has. I think I'll stick to scratch building, I can see that I'm not clever enough to assemble kits.
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #452 on: July 11, 2007, 11:12:40 AM »

No info in the mag about staggering the planking and all the build photos of the 1st layer of planking show Butt joints glued at each rib so all  joints run down each rib and are not staggered.

The mag says the model will in due course be covered with a second layer of strips. Any steps or small crevices between the strips can be corrected later.
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #453 on: July 11, 2007, 11:25:20 AM »

The mag does say glue all edges that touch. Yes the planks, ( I mean the bits of wood that fix to teh model not the builder ;D ;D) are lime.

There is a very good article in this site below about plank on frame building. Its a very good step by step tuorial which is far bette than teh instructions in the mag.

http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/portal.php

Daryl

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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #454 on: July 11, 2007, 12:08:00 PM »



Thanks Daryl....... more abuse......  ;)
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #455 on: July 11, 2007, 12:10:56 PM »

Marki

Have you staggered the planking on your model, what do you think?
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kayem

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #456 on: July 11, 2007, 01:14:06 PM »



Thanks Daryl....... more abuse......  ;)

Maybe Martin, but all 'in a nice way', I hope.

Daryl was right about that step by step planking tutorial, very good indeed, but it's really aimed at modellers building proper plank on frame models, where they want all the craftsmanship to show, and the end result to look planked with lovely joints and contrasting wood grain everywhere. All that talk of tapered planks and stealers isn't very relevant to what you're trying to achieve here, where you want your model to look anything but planked, after it's been covered with a few coats of grey paint. You're trying to replicate a steel hull, not a wooden ship. I think I can see what the makers are trying to achieve by not staggering joints in the usual way, they are trying to simplify the planking process for modellers who may never have done anything like this before, but until we see the finished result, we aren't going to know whether they've got away with it or not.
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herby

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #457 on: July 11, 2007, 02:15:18 PM »

Heh that tutorail was same that i was trying to link here.  ;D I just try to link it at wrong site. My bad  :-[
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #458 on: July 11, 2007, 02:54:34 PM »


Just found the reference in the instructions,

12th issue, 9th step: "All the strips glued to each other and to all the relevant ribs."



... bit of an after thought then, thanks!  >:(


I'm going to use that deluxe materials super Aliphatic to glue the planks.
It's very thin and penertraiting -     http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #459 on: July 11, 2007, 02:57:53 PM »

I think it is mentioned in the first issue and I thought they mentioned it in the first step in issue 11?

Daryl
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kayem

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #460 on: July 11, 2007, 03:40:39 PM »



I'm going to use that deluxe materials super Aliphatic to glue the planks.
It's very thin and penertraiting -     http://www.deluxematerials.co.uk/system/index.html



Looks like we're on something of a damage limitation exercise here. I'd suggest applying aliphatic glue along all the dry planking joints with a paintbrush, maybe thinning it down slightly with water first. Depending on how close your joints are, you may have to do this several times in places, but since the stuff is sandable, it won't matter if you get a bit on the surface. If you don't glue all the planking joints, especially in the second layer really well, there's a risk that over time you'll get cracks appearing through the paint surface as the joints expand & contract, and I bet that's something that Hatchette don't warn you about in their instructions. When you sand the hull, use a block that spans at least two or three bulkheads, fairly coarse paper and not much downward pressure, otherwise you'll just remove material at the bulkhead positions, also make a smaller convex block to finish the bows. I'll look forward to seeing your next photo report.
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #461 on: July 11, 2007, 03:52:15 PM »

Hachette recomends GAUZE BANDAGE soaked in PVA glue in the inside to strengthen the hull. This earth shattering idea comes in issue 18, as you read this try not to laugh to much ;D ;D ;D ;D They also think that by applying just paint on the outside it should be enough to waterproof it. Are you still going to build by the book Martin?

Daryl
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #462 on: July 11, 2007, 03:59:36 PM »

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #463 on: July 11, 2007, 04:24:13 PM »

I forgot to add, the revolutonary idea of using waterproof glue didn't cross Amati/ Hachetts mind. This is I think Amati's first foray into the world of R/C boats and what a mess they are making of it.

I have reason to beleive that issue 21 will contain some interesting information, so perhpas it is not wise to rely on the previews of the issues Germany have received.

Daryl
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mark_1984

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #464 on: July 11, 2007, 04:54:23 PM »

Interesting commment.... what do you think is going to happen to the paint work and outer planking if the paintwork isn't waterproof ?

In my opinion (feel free to disagree) wooden hulls need to be waterproof, both from the outside in, and the inside out.  Get water soaking into the planking and the paintwork will crack and peel as the wood swells.  I would advocate using a waterproof glue (cause you can never guarantee that the inner and outer finishes will remain perfectly waterproof), varnishing the inside (cause you will always get some splashes inside), or resin coating, etc, and making sure that the outer hull does have a waterproof coating.

They also think that by applying just paint on the outside it should be enough to waterproof it. Are you still going to build by the book Martin?

Daryl
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #465 on: July 11, 2007, 05:04:52 PM »

I can't possibly comment on what is going to happen, to protect my sources of information, just keep an eye on the UK issues. This build is NOT for the novice builders as Hachette advertised.

Daryl
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mark_1984

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #466 on: July 11, 2007, 05:09:46 PM »

I can't possibly comment on what is going to happen, to protect my sources of information, just keep an eye on the UK issues. This build is NOT for the novice builders as Hachette advertised.

Daryl

I don't quite see what you're reply has to do with what you might think is going to happen to the paintwork if the planking starts to absorb water ?????????
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #467 on: July 11, 2007, 05:17:36 PM »

Marki53, your hull looks songle planked in this picture, or is that an optical conclution!

Is it double planked here?


How did you seal your hull for water testing?


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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #468 on: July 11, 2007, 05:19:53 PM »

Both question's already been asked by me and were replied to earlier in this thread, if you read what is coming out of Germany it seems Amati want us to plank over the Hull resin parts with the 2nd planking to level up ;D ;D
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #469 on: July 11, 2007, 06:09:14 PM »

Waterproofing? Well that's where I reach for the good old gum paper strip and shellac for a planked hull but I don't think that will feature in the instructions somehow. Pity, as it is good way of simulating hull plating as well as covering any tendency of the planking underneath to crack open. Takes a super finish too.
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #470 on: July 11, 2007, 06:18:30 PM »

I don't know what the instructions will say but that's an idea I would like to try Colin.
( I would prefer to do a fibreglass tissue & finishing resin .... but I have a phobia about resin finishes... mainly because I've never done one before! )

Using the new planking clamps now... pictures later.



... gum paper strip and shellac for a planked hull .....  as it is good way of simulating hull plating as well as covering any tendency of the planking underneath to crack open. Takes a super finish too.
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #471 on: July 11, 2007, 06:33:08 PM »

As I undertand it Amati say the application of paintto the outer Hull skin is good enough to seal the Hull ;D ;D

The inner of the Hull is sealed by Gauze bandage (as in medical use) and the application of standard white PVA wood glue to bond it into place, some water seal ??? ???
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marki53

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #472 on: July 11, 2007, 06:33:26 PM »


The hull is completely double planked, even above the recess
the hull above the recess shall not be double planked as per instructions, but in this case i disregarded any building instructions ;D
so i bought planks in 1200mm length and made my own 2nd planking
i sealed the hull with an ugly smelling timber additive fron graupner, named 'glattfix'
this gave me a wonderful smooth, strong and waterproof hull

markus

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #473 on: July 11, 2007, 06:36:28 PM »

its nice to know what is going to happen ;D ;D,  read carefully what Hachette send. Issue 21 is only the tip of the iceburg.  Still not long to wait.

I am not commenting on deviating from hachette's instructions just make sure you know what you and they are doing.
Daryl
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #474 on: July 11, 2007, 06:39:39 PM »



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