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Author Topic: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?  (Read 840969 times)

Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #350 on: June 26, 2007, 11:21:47 AM »

yes I think Kaiser probibley was as he wrote the historical blurb and the photo credits are his, well most of them.

I wonder what Germany knows.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #351 on: June 26, 2007, 11:56:28 AM »

I wonder, are the black & white photos in the mag of the Bismarck are of the same version of the ship we are to get, I suspect not ???

I wonder if it is worth trying to contact Kaiser for his version of the tale so that way we themn may know for sure?
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #352 on: June 26, 2007, 12:19:27 PM »

I was hoping he (JK) might reply to my posts on the two Bismarck forums, the chap who posted about the position of the bilge keels has not replied yet.

I agree contacting JK is agood idea.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #353 on: June 26, 2007, 12:27:48 PM »

We need to some how be directed to the plans that Amati used and no reason why Amati should not come clean on this, this is the only way we will prove this one way or the other :-\

Having said that if it turns out the supplied model replicates the plan set Amati have other than the anchor issue then who is right and who is wrong,s in effect they would have fulfilled there side of the bargain in suplying a model reproduced from original plans but god only knows which set or which version ???
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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #354 on: June 26, 2007, 03:18:56 PM »

Martin,

It would seem that you have come to a sudden stop, have you given up or are they still mucking you around, what you have built looks good so far, good luck with it....



Roy
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #355 on: June 26, 2007, 04:33:57 PM »


No not stopped.... yet!
I nailed on parts 7 & 9  and will post up the pictures before the end of the week.

Parts 10 & 11 are a different story.... planking!  :P

Martin.
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #356 on: June 26, 2007, 05:03:40 PM »

You did say planking didnt you ;)

Am very adept at planking ;D ;D

Keep it up Martin your is the best build out the UK forums that exist ;)
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #357 on: June 27, 2007, 12:56:16 PM »

Martin- glad to see the build is progressing, the best one on the internet.

the two reinforceing bits at the extreme end of the stern on our version needs to be beveled to make the planks sit on them. we didn't notice an indication of that in the instructions, can be difficult to do if left to late.

I like the batteries on the bow ours did the same thing until we weighted it down and streightened it out.

Daryl
PS Wot no centre prop shaft ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keep up the build very interesting, have you had any parts beyond 12 we are waiting for 12 to ??? plus apparently a dvd of David Mearns expedition.
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #358 on: June 27, 2007, 12:59:32 PM »

Ditto what Daryl has said, issue 18 dropped thru the lettbox this morning, it appears no delays via newsagents ;)
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DickyD

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #359 on: June 27, 2007, 03:10:39 PM »

Is that Bradders weighing down the keel ?
Judging by what he is wearing you are obviously about to stir some more paint. ;D
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #360 on: June 28, 2007, 02:13:00 PM »

Well its all coming out now on the buildthebismarck.co.uk forum :o

It appears Amati & Hachete have some serious questions to answer about the accuracy & build related issues of this kit, it beggars belief it really does :o
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #361 on: June 29, 2007, 11:36:45 AM »


I notice on www.buildthebismarck.co.uk  there is a visitors Special Offer - "Anatomy of the Ship: The Battleship Bismarck available at a discount to readers of this web site."

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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #362 on: June 29, 2007, 11:54:25 AM »

Amazon has the book cheeper and so do one or two other retail outlets and the reviews of it on epinions and Amazon only give it 2 stars. The link below is for the Amazon page 21 inc free delivery post office permitting.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Battleship-Bismarck-Anatomy-Ship-Brower/dp/0851779824

Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #363 on: June 29, 2007, 12:10:21 PM »

Epinions slate the book saying the greatest warship of all time deserves better than this.


Slightly moderated

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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #364 on: June 30, 2007, 10:11:42 AM »

Right guys here is the low down........

Germany have highlighted two very different sets problems with this model:

1 - Its Accuracy

2 - Build problems


Accuracy -

Germany are currently at issue 43, but have previews sent via Amati for what is to come for up to issue 51.
The current accuracy points seem to be as follows:
The position of the Anchor pocket is wrong
The Cooling Ports have the incorrect in number
The number of Bulley's are wrong.

Not forgetting in actual build terms Germany are only at issue 43 out of 140 issues, so there are likely to be more problems yet to surface, the UK is at issue 18.

Amati so far have only admitted one error the Anchor pocket, they appear to be dismissive re comment on Ports or Bulley's, they have not noted how the Anchor problem is to be corrected if at all.

So far we are unable to prove one way or the other as to the accuracy probelms as to who is right or wrong on these points other than the obvious mistake of the Anchor.

Build problems -

Germany say part 43a is too narrow to allow smooth transit of the planking and also the resin parts being supplied for both the Bow & Stern are wrongly dimensioned, this is because when the 2nd Hull planking is applied it in effect is then too high for the resin parts - Amati advise to cover over the resin parts with planks to level the height which seems ludicrous!

I may have the answer regarding this, bear in mind first that in this model we have two versions, static display and RC.
I did read somewhere that with one layer of the Hull planking it makes the scale of the Hull correct in width etc which indicate's the correct design for the static version.
But once the 2nd Hull planking is applied (assuming this is for strength of the RC version) it throws out the scale of the Hull because it obviously makes the Hull slightly wider and also cause's the resin parts to be undersized!

My thoughts on this are that this model was only designed a static display model, in which case there will not be a problem with resin parts if you apply only one layer of Hull planking which I suspect is the original intention before the RC version came along.
But then come's along Hachette who say can you also RC this model, this seems the fatal error, the resin parts for Bow & Stern have not been scaled up to meet the 2nd application of planking hence why the complaints from Germany that the resin parts are wrongly dimensioned. - Amati advise to lay planking across the resin parts to make them the right height!!

So form your own opinions, but in my view unless Amati either supply two versions of resin parts (Static & RC) both builds will have the exact same problem, unless that is Amati tell static builders not to apply the 2nd planking which will cure there problem, but obviously not the RC version unless the resin parts are re-dimensioned.
Alll we can hope for is that the problem has been sorted one way or another before the parts land in the UK, though the planking is already underway and the build for the majority marches on, I'am holding fire at issue 10 until the outcome of what Hachette/Amati have to say re UK parts.

Already it is too late for Amati to change/increase the size of the Stern resin part for the UK as this item has already been supplied.

I'am expecting further advice from Hachette UK shortly which will hopefully address the list of points raised and if all have been addressed in particular for the UK which is obviously our concern, I will of course post what they say on here for all to see.
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Captain Povey

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #365 on: July 01, 2007, 08:36:39 PM »

Hi Martin, I have only built wooden boats and from my limited experience you are doing a damn good job. Did I see some cling film on the bench during some of the gluing? I assume this is to stop the whole thing accidently attaching itself to the bench. I can think of a couple of times when I wish I had thought of that.  I am glad I did not start this model as my bench would not be long enough and the thought of the reaction to a Bismark glued to the top of the kitchen table does not bear thinking about. Good luck with the planking - hours of fun there. Are you going to use a plank bender or steam and hope? Cheers Graham.  :)
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #366 on: July 01, 2007, 10:05:52 PM »

Hi Graham,

Just spent what seemed like hours sanding the corners of the ribs, that was fun for about ten minutes.  :P
I must admit I'm not at all concerned about the accuracy of the model ... as anyone who has seen any of my models will testify.
I've built a couple of dozen model kits in my time, (never scratch built) and so far every kit has needed "adjusting" in one way or another, I don't suppose this Bismarck kit will be at all different!  "An accurate scale model" is still correct statement ... it just doesn't say how accurate it is!

Personally all I want  out of this build is:
1. A big all grey battleship.
2. I has guns on it
3. It looks mensing when it slowly turns towards you ( rotating gun turrets )
4. It floats!
And 3 out of 4 will do for me!!!   ;)

.... which is the bow end again?  ::)

Martin
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Daryl

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #367 on: July 01, 2007, 11:12:11 PM »

3 out of 4 might be optomistic, and there is a rib in the way of Anton and Dora turrets if the measurements are correct.

Also I have reason to beleive that the turrets are solid resin. Weight is another factor, the superstructure is to be covered in brass etch, the wood underneath is reputed to be 4mm thick. Amati has NOT disclosed the weight of this dispite reapeated requests from myself and Down Below, this brings a large question mark over the stability. We don't know if they have a floating working model or is it just theroy that it floats the right way up at the correct waterline. Why Amati refuses to comment on the total weight who knows. This question is out of bounds.

Weight is an unknown factor with this model as we don't know whats comeing up, are any of the fittings white metal? Hachette/ Amati won't answer that question. We have a long way to go to the end of this and it would helpful for people who know what they are doing or think they do to know the total weight as it would help for trimming, roatating turrets and all the other gizmos that appear on these models. Hachette and Amati won't say what the finnished weight is, we can guess but that is all it is a guess. As this was designed as a static model and r/c an afterthought then top weight would not have been considered when chooseing the materials to make the thing out of.

If we trust the blurb that came with issue 1 the battery is a 4.2ah SLA, this must weigh aroung 800gr to 1kg + motors etc. The total weight should be around 12kg, with the previews I have seen so far which is upto 51 out of 140 then stability might be an interesting problem when we get to the end.

Daryl
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #368 on: July 02, 2007, 08:10:07 AM »

Martin

I'am pleased to hear that you are building the model as supplied which will hopefully also show up the inaccuracies.
When push comes to shove at least those who want to press the inaccuracy issue will then have a high profile professional build they can use to bounce off Hachette/Amati when time comes.

I agree there Will those who dont care about accuracy, but for those who do then it is only right we get both Hachette & Amati to comment.

One point I will make is that it is quite apparent with the 2nd planking applied a lot of unnecessary work will have to be carried out to make the resin parts C&D sit correctly, for those building the static version there appears to be no valid reason to apply the 2nd planking and therefore removing the unnecessary work with the resin parts and them also fitting perfectly it would seem.

With the first planking applied the hull is in scale, with the 2nd planking it is out of scale and there the problems start with hull resin parts, that to me is clearly a bad design error and quite obvious that this model was only ever intended as a static model.
It does also make one wonder if the RC cersion has been water tested, as Daryl points out weight could well be issue too.
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #370 on: July 04, 2007, 05:17:39 PM »

Nice idea but how many of thier so called free builds have ever been finished,well lets think a m8 of mine started to collect th bits from the same company to build the subaru rally cart what  happened after x no of issues it was stopped I REST MY CASE
Totally untrue as the series ran its course to 55 issues ;)
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HS93 (RIP)

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #371 on: July 05, 2007, 12:26:33 AM »

Martin Just a question about the planking, Does it tell you to have all the joints on one bulkhead ? its just that the norn would be to stager the joints ,that way its a lot stronger, and essayer to keep the flow of the hull

peter
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #372 on: July 05, 2007, 12:32:34 AM »


Part 11 & 12  uploaded:

 http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4024.msg46284#msg46284

Parts 13 - 16 arrived today too!  :)


All planks are but jointed in a straight line along double ribs. I thought it strange but the hull is turning out to be very strong and it will be double planked later anyway, I just hope they have the foresight to overlap the joints! But I'm going to build as per instructions... which involves a lot of tough biting!  :P

 
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Down below

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #373 on: July 05, 2007, 08:51:21 AM »

The build is looking great!

Agree with the query on staggering the 2nd layer of planking, do you plan to stagger for the 2nd layer even though the mag may advise to butt again?
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Build the Bismarck - a "Hachett" job?
« Reply #374 on: July 05, 2007, 09:27:54 AM »


Yep! Gonna build by the book!
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