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Author Topic: Townsend Thoresen Free Enterprise V / P&O Pride of Hythe - development of a kit.  (Read 203145 times)

carlmt

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Hi Carl,


Fantastic  :-))  You must be delighted with the result of all your hard work. They look superb. I love the unique lines of FEV, can't wait to see further progress.


Thanks Antony

Not long now Anthony.........sorry it has taken so long to get to this stage  <:(

cos918

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The hull look great Carl . Just out of interest how will it work with the windows were they are rasied on the hull


john
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carlmt

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Thanks John  :-))
 
Re the windows - yes, there was a 'rain drip' along the top of all the hull windows and this extended down both sides as well.  However, due to the 'tumblehome' of the hull the 'rain drip' petered out toward the bottom edge of the window.  I will (hopefully) demonstrate how this can be done on the model tomorrow.
 
This is how it looked on the original ship:

cos918

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never noticed that on the real ferry
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Ferry cross the Mersey

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Not long now Antony.........sorry it has taken so long to get to this stage  <:(


Carl, you've got nothing at all to be sorry about. Without your ingenuity & determination I wouldn't be looking forward to building this wonderful model. Can't wait for the next instalment. Cutting those windows out looks a little tricky though, especially with the graduated rain guard  :o


Thanks Antony
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Nothing right now. Waiting for the right project. Come on Carl. FEV on the horizon!!

carlmt

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never noticed that on the real ferry
john

Ha ha  {-) ...... I have spent so long poring over dozens and dozens of photographs of this ship and her sisters that there are not many details I havn't noticed.  It is just a balance has to how far to go with the detailing with the model.  To me, these window surrounds were quite distinctive so I am hoping that they can be reproduced on the model convincingly.

carlmt

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Thanks Anthony  :-))
 
We took one of the hulls over to my father's workshop where the test superstructure currently resides to see how well the already assembled parts fit into the hull.  It was just a quick 'offer up' as there are no supporting deck stringers fitted into the hull yet, but initial impressions look good  :-)) .  There may be a need for the modeller to have to fettle the edge of the decks to fit snugly within the hull, but then this is normal where we have a 'hand made' fibreglass hull and a precision machine cut component like a deck.  The fibreglass thickness is bound to vary to a small degree so it is better that the decks are a fraction bigger than needed and can be cut back to fit well.
 
I love it when a plan comes together........................ O0

carlmt

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Made a start on cutting out the openings in the first hull today..........65 openings per side!!!! %%
 

 
Unfortunately, to allow the mould to release from the plug without getting 'caught', all the opening blanks on the plug needed a small fillet of filler added to the edges to smooth them out.  My fault - they were too thick (1mm).  If I had made the blanks thinner, this wouldnt have been a problem.  The upshot of this is that each window opening (only the windows as they have the rain drip surround) will need fettling back with a flat needle file to square them off:
 

 

 

 

 
Once this is done, it is then just a question of carefully opening up the centres of all the openings - firstly with the small drill, then a small grinder on the Dremel and then careful filing with the needle files:
 

 
As can be seen, sometimes the gel coat splinters off no matter how careful you are!!! Rather annoying, but not the end of the world.  A little Milliput when I have done them all will soon fix it.  Milliput will be a bit stronger than just using filler in this instance.
 
Once the windows have been opened up - remembering to leave a thin 'frame' around them as this becomes the 'rain drip surround' - this frame needs to be chamfered back to form a drip around 3 sides of each window, top and 2 sides:
 

 

 

 
8 windows done.....122 to go......... :o {-)

carlmt

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Been hard at it in the workshop today and these past few evenings......all the windows and openings on the port side of the hull have now been opened up and fettled to shape  :-))
 

 

 

Howard

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Its hard work Carl but you can see the fruits of your labour A great model starts with a good prep work you can see yours every time you post a photo  well done this will be a head turner when finished. :-))
                   Regards Howard
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carlmt

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Thanks Howard  :-))
 
It is slow going mind......I do about 6 or so at a time as it starts to do my eyes in (really must get to Specsavers...).  I am a fussy "xxxxx" and am trying to get them as accurate and as even as possible.
 
One issue I am mulling over at the moment is the thickness of the fibreglass around the window openings.  The general hull thickness isnt too much, but where the windows are, the reveals are quite deep.  I am toying with the idea of grinding down the thickness on the inside of the hull around each opening - that way, when the glazing is fitted from behind, the perceived hull thickness would be more to scale.
 
Still in two minds about this though.............
 
Three shiny 385 motors arrived today  :-))  And three 10" M2 propshafts are on order  O0
 

cos918

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Hi Carl
looking real good . M2 is that a bit small . Would M3 be better ?


john
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warspite

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I have only just read this page and viewed others on a 'ad hoc' basis, just a thought, and don't take it the wrong way, a piece of constructive critism here  {-), it seems a lot of work for the windows with drilling out and filing and having to repair the rain drip when the gel coat splits off.

Would it not be easier to have the window cut out, to be recessed and extend to the outside of the rain guard, then it will allow the mould to be released easier - no infill to file away, when the client drills out the windows, he files up to the recess which becomes the guide - it also does not split for the excellent hull (it also allows for a key to the next part), as a gesture, the kit is supplied with a jig, that allows abs (plastic card) pieces to be cut and slotted into the jig (moulded versions of the types of window - a hole the depth of the full window and an internal box that supports the pieces), it is suitably chamfered to suit the rain guard shape and it allows the client to file the abs down to the correct angle so that when it goes into the hole in the hull it is flush on the rear and protrudes the outside as intended.

Any external filling in and filing is kept to a minimum, the glue solidifies the abs to the hull. just thought - now discuss debate  O0
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Atlantic Mouldings

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Looking really good, great work and watching with interest.
Time spent on those windows is well worth the effort  :-)) :-))
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Brian60

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Really coming along now. I think I would have been tempted to file the complete frame away and maybe either cast a master in resin and epoxy to the hull or make up the frames in 'T' shape styrene into which the clear glass could be dropped into one side of the T. See the illustration. It would make things easire for you.

warspite

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Really coming along now. I think I would have been tempted to file the complete frame away and maybe either cast a master in resin and epoxy to the hull or make up the frames in 'T' shape styrene into which the clear glass could be dropped into one side of the T. See the illustration. It would make things easire for you.

Further to this, making a lip that allows the frame to butt up to the inside of the hull, radiojoes hms coventry post #225 showing the casting he made, a series of these for making the window frames might be an options available to clients, they then file out the whole frame and insert from the inside a cast version of Brian56's idea with a lip on the outside as suggested above.
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carlmt

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Thanks for the suggestions guys  :-))
 
I really am not happy with the way the windows have come out on the first hull.....so I am going to give your ideas a try.  Will post up results.  Luckily, that this the whole idea of these prototypes -  to see if there isnt a better way of doing things!!!
 
As for the fibreglass hulls, unfortunately, the mould is now done and at the cost it was  :o  it will have to stay that way.  The winow locations will have to remain as 'projecting' as opposed to 'recessed' - but I think with your idea of the resin surrounds, this wont be too much of a problem.

warspite

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hope this helps, the outside edge is the stop from the window pushing through the hole, the inside lip is for the window frame and stops the glazing pashing through the frame, you just change the size and shape to suit the holes, this even shows the rain guard. you could also include any detail like vents and window latches that appear on the photo's.
 
As for the master plug, resin some squares into the recess so that they end up .05 - 1mm protrusions, so instead of being proud on the moulded hull, they are recessed, any new mould - you rectify the change.
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carlmt

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Thanks for that Warspite :-))   I have done something along similar lines in 3D Sketchup and just uploaded them to Shapeways for printing.  My eyesight really isnt up to creating these from scratch at 1:96 - even though they are relatively simple shapes!
 
As for the mould - a good idea! Will have a chat with the fabricator next time I am down there.

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Not sure warspite....but when viewed in oz....the image has the window frame in the vertical plane and the glass leaning backwards......

The bottom horizontal window frame ledge also appears not to have a vanishing point ....or is it just distortion over the 22,000 km?  ;D...... Derek
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Derek Warner

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carlmt

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Hi Derek - Warspite's drawing is there or thereabouts.......
 
The real ship had these distinctive 'shrouds' around the windows, but only on the top and two sides.  It is this feature that I am trying to create.
 

 
What I have done is similar to Warspite's drawing, but allowing for the limitations of the 3D printing process.  The wall thickness's of the plastic are 0.5mm.  The frames will sit vertically in the hull but, because the thickness of the hull varies with the f/g cloth, there cannot be a 'backstop' on the frames - they will have to be set into pre-fettled holes in the hull to the depth needed to for the bottom of the angled side to be in line with the hull outer face:
 

 
From inside the hull, each window frame will have a recess for the glazed element to be fitted.  These glazed parts will be laser-cut to size in the kit at the same time as all the superstructures and deck components:
 

 
Thanks for taking the time to make these suggestions guys  :-))  It really is appreciated and hopefully a more friendly kit will evolve!!!

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apologies Guys........in OZ we have a saying....'you are just like the cocky on the biscuit tin'' :embarrassed:......

The literal translation is something like .................''shut up because you don't know what you are talking about"

Looks like this morning I fit the bill O0.................. Derek
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warspite

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Hi,  :D, my version is just a quick sketch up, where the external lip sits against the hull, though shown part way along the outside of the frame could be flush with the inside back edge - with the intension to prevent it from pushing through the hull - it gives a ledge for adhesive to be applied against and when a overly filed down hole has gaps the adhesive is then squeezed into the hole to the front of the hull leaving only this protruding adhesive to be clean away, when the window frame is pushed back to be positioned correctly against the outside of the hull, when dry, the backside can be sanded down or cut off etc to give a smooth finish for the fitting of the decks.

the inside frame is for glazing, positioned where it should be and its width from the frame enough to give the idea of a frame but not to much, to hold the glazing.

Derek - a picture explains better than a thousand words - the descriptions could be misleading - even I do get it wrong most of the time  {-) O0, all these window suggestions are to help make the success of this model - as found - cutting out and filing down loads of window holes and trying to get them consistently the same would more than likely put some off, all but the die hard that is.
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carlmt

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Hmmmmmmmmmmm.....  Seems I will be doing a spot of fittings casting soon  :-))
 

 
This should be fun!!!  %%

carlmt

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Vacuum chamber has arrived to assist with the resin fittings casting  :-))
 

 
Just waiting for the vacuum pump from Germany now.........
 
Also installed in the Linkspan Models workshop is a small vac forming machine:
 

 
As there is only the funnel and lifeboats in this kit that will be vac-formed, this should fit the bill nicely without breaking the bank!
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