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[Norseman]

Hi Ali
So how do you fell about HSC like MV Bissat?
Dave

[cos918]

No worries Ali - sorry mate, didnt mean to offend
My real beef is with the new Spirits of Britain and France: I know they have been designed to do a job and, vibration apart, they do it very well. I just wish the naval architect who designed them had put a little more thought into the aesthetics (that's the architect in me coming out!!). I mean, the Prides of Dover and Calais were large ships, and they had a certain style to the upper works - even the DFDS 'D' class boats (which are only a fraction smaller than the new Spirits) have had some thought given to their shape and window style.

But the biggest ball-ache for me of all though is the bow design - they build a sleek bow with good rake and sheer..........then go and stick a dirty great 'goalpost' or 'cow catcher' on the front and spoil the lines completely!!!!!

mutter mutter mumble mumbe grumble grumble.............

Hi Carl
Take a look at MS Star bow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Star . She was built at the Aker yard now STX . IF PO had not insisted on cam shell door the new sprit class bows would have look ok. Thats what you get when you put a square peg in to a round hole with a big hammer = mess.
There are morden very sleak ferrys that are not box boats. Super Fast IX, X, XI http://members.multimania.nl/hanshu/SuperfastX.htm  Colour  Line Super Speed 1 and 2 http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SuperSpeed_1_%286%29.jpg. For box boat well Finnjet started that back in 1977 but she made up for it in speed 33+ Knots

John

[carlmt]

Cheers for that John - does the MS Star have an upward opening bow visor then?

I think the main reason for all the 'hardware' on the bows of modern cross channel ferries is that they now have bulbous bows, and these need to be defended against damage from contact with the linkspans. Hence, the 'landing platforms' for the linkspan fingers have to extend forward of the bulb - and subsequently, the upper deck landing platform has to be extended also, and supported by 'goalposts'.

The earlier boats (Prides of Dover & Calais and before) do not have bulbous bows, so did not have these 'problems'.
Carl

[HansP]

Slab-sided newbuilds really aren't my cup of tea either, the 2001 NSF twins are already beyond what I consider a good looking ferry to be. Driving up a ramp into a tiny door half-way up the side of a ship never gives you the feeling that you're on a really big boat, and as for aesthetics - the streamlined funnel just looks "squashed" to my eyes and at odds with the towering square of the bridge screen. At the back the open cargo deck looks unfinished, even though I know you have to have modern ferries "open aft" to comply with dangerous cargo carrying restrictions; but the real bugbear is the lack of deckspace. Norland / Norstar had masses of it, their replacements Norsea / Norsun are not at all bad by modern standards - on a summer crossing it really makes a difference and lets you feel you are actually at sea. On POH / POR you feel you cannot escape the inside of the ship - there's nowhere to go outside - and such deckspace as there is, is set a long way back from the stern, and often occupied with smokers - ironically dropping ash and cinders right on top of the hazardous cargo space....   

Maybe economics dictate that modern ferries have to be freighters first, cruise ferries second; and that impacts the way they have to be built and the way they look.

To my mind, Norsun / Norsea were the last of the good looking ferries, with the earlier Olau twins a close second. Come to think of it, Norsun / Norsea will be 25 years old next May, is a beach in India looming in the not-to-distant future? Or will P&O do the decent thing and extend the operating life of these two perfectly capable ferries for another decade or so?

Greets (from a clearly biased NSF fan!!)

HansP

 

[wartsilaone]

Hi HanP. As you might have guessed I am also a massive NSF fan with Norland and Norsea being my all time favourates.
When I first saw the POH/POR I hated them for the same reasons you mentioned but the more I look at them the more I get used to them. That's not to say that I think they are good looking ferries.
 As I do research for my waterline models I am looking at ferries all over Europe and have found that unfortunately this is the shape of things to come as it seems to be the most economical configuration.

We have seen many designs come and go. At one time it appeared that the emphasis was shifting towards faster ferries so the HSS was built but has not been very successful. Now it's the inside of ferries that are changing the most as passengers expect more facilities.
The Silja Serenade being a case in point. It's not a bad looking ship on the outside even though it looks to much like a cruiser but look inside and it's a floating shopping centre.
 





I'm with you guys, I like the older generation of ferries but whether we like it or not we'll have to get used to it.

Ali.

[cos918]

Hi Carl
MS Star has doors that open out wards and back then a ramp comes down same as the Super fast ships . She does have a bulbus bow.
I not to up on regs. But look at Sea France Morliere they had to do the cow catcher on her and she still looks smart. Sealink Fantasia had that novel design were the vissor lifted the the landing platform for the uper car deck roled in to position. Both of these boat still looked smart on there bows.

Ali
Both Symphony Serenade of Silja Line are  ledgenery in that they set the trend for morden cruise ships. Silja line asked Akers yard to build a pair of cruise ferries the world had never seen before and thats what they got. That morden 200 000 tones cruise ship with the atrium is based on these 2 ferries.
The Baltic has a phenomenan were there are both route ferries and cruise ferries were they are basicly a cruise ship with a car deck. There are only a had fully of places in the world were ferries are used for cruise as well as transportation from A to B. Helsinki has a great ferry port with many great ships.

John

[carlmt]

Evening all...........

Well, I have spent all weekend in the workshop applying and then sanding off filler - absolutely covering myself from head to toe in filler dust (and yes, I was wearing overalls / boots / breathing mask / goggles).............and I am still not happy with the finish I am getting on the hull below the belting  .

No matter what I try, I just cant seem to get a 'fair' surface from bow to stern. I am using flat sanding blocks (wood blocks with various grades of paper super-glued to them) of different sizes as I find that the largest (about 5" x 2") is too large for some of the compound curves!!!!

It isnt massively noticable - the surface doesnt resemble the moon!!! - but it annoys me greatly. When i run my hands over the surface I can feel the undulations..........and they are not caused by the wooden formers.  Maybe I should have clad the plug on the 'plank & frame' method?

To me, it just isnt good enough yet!!!!

I dont think I will have the same problem with the upper hull as I can use my electric power sanding mouse which gives a lovely flat surface (as I found out on the bottom hull plating), but I cannot use it on the more curvey hull just below the waterline.

Any suggestions (apart from 'give it up') before I go barmy???
Photos will be posted tomorrow as my camera packed up today 
Carl

[Shipmate60]

Carl,
You could cast it as it is and then work on the first casting to produce the final mould.
A bit labour intensive but you would then be working on gell coat and filler.

Bob

[carlmt]

Hi Bob - That thought had crossed my mind earlier, but I am a bit worried about the cost of having a mould cast twice........once to get a hull to 'work on to get perfect' then another to actually produce the kit hulls  .

Having never done any moulding myself before, I am hoping to get the plug up to Mark at MMB for him to sort for me, with me 'looking over the shoulder' so to speak - but at this time I have no idea as to the cost..........this I need to speak with him at the time - when the plug is ready!!!!

In my 'younger' days when restoring classic cars and such, I used to spray a guide coat of black over a surface I was working on, then 'flat back' the surface - this would then show any imperfections and depressions on the surface as the flatting would remove the guide coat, leaving black paint where the depressions occured. But it was easier to flat back a large panel with rigid tools than it is to do the same on a relatively small and curvey boat hull !!!!
If I use the sandpaper without the blocks there is a huge danger of creating MORE undulations from finger pressure 
Carl

[Shipmate60]

Carl,
It seems you only have 3 choices.
Work on your plug.
Cast one and work on that.
Get Mark to finish it.

Bob

[carlmt]

ha ha ha ha ha 

I asked for that didnt I 

It would be unfair of me to ask Mark to finish it for me as then I wouldnt learn anything - and I want these kits to have at least 'some' of my input  .

I think I shall just persevere with adding and sanding the filler until I am happy with the surface..........

Really needed a bit of a rant here to you guys as when I tried to discuss it with SWMBO, the only response was ' Really, I am sorry dear.......would you like a cup of coffee???'

The coffee was welcome, but the ideas were lacking (bless 'er)........
Carl

[Norseman]

Your lucky Carl - you wouldn't have got the coffee from my wife - just another job you needed to do 'before you touch that boat again'

Dave

[cos918]

Hi Carl
I would do what yo say use paint then sand it to show low spots. Use some thing like a credit card to skim filler over the low spots then repeat the whole proces again
.good luck


John

[carlmt]

Dave - I am very lucky in this respect..........Flo is very supportive of the Linkspan Models venture and really doesnt complain when I spend so long in the workshop.....even after being at the 'day job' 9 to 5 before. In fact, she regularly pops down with coffee and cake 

John - that is my task for tomorrow evening........spray the underhull black and set to with the sanding blocks again. I think my main difficulty is actually seeing the finish as all the surface is the same colour at the moment.

Have to say, it was getting me down a bit by this evening...........
C

[Norseman]

Have to say, it was getting me down a bit by this evening...........

Hi Carl - maybe you just need a break from it. You seem like a guy who gets done what he wants to
and I'm sure you will get this sorted too . Maybe the flash coat will make all the difference.

By the way - my wifes great - she just has priorities that aren't always like mine (but then she's usually right too).

Dave

[Colin Bishop]

Persevere Carl, it will all come right in the end. The best way during any session is to quit while you are ahead and then when you come back to it you will be on a high. Time spent on getting it right up front will be repaid many times over when you go into production.

Colin

[carlmt]

Thankyou all for your words of encouragement 

It can get pretty lonely in the workshop at times  , and I am constantly thinking of what the reaction of you guys, the modelling community, would be when I finally release the kit if it is not up to scratch  .

Feeling a lot better this morning now - and looking forward to getting back in there this evening to turn more filler into dust 
Cheers
Carl

[Norseman]

release the kit if it is not up to scratch 

No way you'd do that Carl - it's just the Devil whispering in your ear mate.
You're pushed and you're tired but you will get  there, and with a great product too.

Dave .............. currently happily sanding my Spraymaster ......... but working tonight

[ayrshire andy]

Hi Carl,

Just a few words to say congrats on your choice of a lovely, gracious, charming, seamanlike and modelworthy prototype in the FEV, and your diligent and interesting labours to bring what is sure to be a cracking big kit to us lucky modellers, she looks great in so many different liveries and could even give rise to a new one design class for Cross Channel Ferry Racing?    Thanks for the excellent updates and photos when will we have a shiny FG hull to look upon? 

[Norseman]

when will we have a shiny FG hull to look upon? 

Hi Andy

If Carl rubs any harder and faster he'll need a Fire Boat along side his plug 
Nice to see customers lining up for the product - that should make the work
seem more worthwhile while he slaves away on it.

Have to say between this thread and Neil's kit building thread I am begining to
realise why kits cost the money they do.

Dave

[Ferry Across The Mersey]

Hi Carl,

Just been reading up on your thread. Sorry I haven't posted in a while as I've been busy with other things. I'll get back to my own rebuild later this week.

Carl, please keep up the good work as it's vitally important you get this finished to your high standards. I've just come back from a motorhome ski holidays to the alps and to say I was disappointed with the ferry crossing would be an understatement. The ferry we were on on the outward journey was the Pride Of Burgundy, efficient but extremely boring to look at and travel in. The inside was small, tatty and the food a rip off. If you have a sausage meal it's all charged separately which really boosts the cost. We were a few hours early and we were asked to pay an extra £64.00. I remember the trips with my dad and he always got to the ferry early with no extra charge or fuss. I moaned a bit and got away with an extra £10.00 surcharge. Anyway enough of my hijacking Carl's thread but my point is I really want to replicate the FEV of TT and create something nice to look at with great memories to boot. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!! It'll be well worth it in the end.

Thanks Antony

[buhyboy]

hello there - new to this mularkey so apologies if l mess up. l used to work on FE VII  late 70's - Zeebrugge run - and loved it....so
am delighted to see a model of a sister coming along - such great looking ships. Used to work on Earl Siward and
HOFE too but am willing to bid my time on their models.

[Norseman]

Hello to you too Bushyboy

You've picked a good thread to join - it's about due for an update.
Alas Carl has to sleep occasionally - a pity really.
Anyway there are quite a few ferry nuts about here.
If you build post it up 

Dave

[Talisman]

Hi Andy
Nice to see customers lining up for the product - that should make the work
seem more worthwhile while he slaves away on it.


If Carl rubs any harder and faster he'll need a Fire Boat along side his plug 
Have to say between this thread and Neil's kit building thread I am begining to
realise why kits cost the money they do.

Hello to you too Bushyboy

You've picked a good thread to join - it's about due for an update.
Alas Carl has to sleep occasionally - a pity really.
Anyway there are quite a few ferry nuts about here.
If you build post it up 

Dave

Dave

Yes, where are you Carl, twice you have rumaged my feathers and still we await...

You have a potentially good product but time waits for no man!
Regards
Kim

[Ferry Across The Mersey]

Dave


Yes, where are you Carl, twice you have rumaged my feathers and still we await...

You have a potentially good product but time waits for no man!
Regards
Kim

Hi Carl,

Take as long as you like. I'm willing to wait until you are entirely satisfied with your end product. Perfection has no time limits.

Thanks Antony