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Author Topic: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER  (Read 10774 times)

Dekan

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2011, 05:15:06 PM »



Oh. and I've found my education -  :D :D :D





Dodgy I WANT ONE
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PMK

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2011, 06:16:23 PM »

My limited knowledge/education, from what I have learnt over the years, has taught me that North America has been notorius for stealing inventions and claiming the credit for inventions that they themselves did not discover. For instance, it is no secret that Alexander G. Bell was not the first to invent the telephone. His only claim to fame is that he actually bribed the US Patent Office with hard $$$ in order to win the Gvmn't contract. A true American fellow by the name of ELisha Grey was reportedly to have submitted his idea for the telephone to the Patent Office BEFORE that of Bell. But money had spoken louder, and Mr Grey had utimately ended up being pushed out of the frame.
And then there was the rocket propulsion theory. Again, knowledge which the US had gleaned/stolen from the Germans. And Chuck Yeager, able to break the sound barrier - with British technology that the then British Gvnm't gave freely to the US in exchange for their technologies... which the US later welshed on the deal... and so on. The North American history of lies, corruption and deception is unsurpassed by any other so-called World Leaders.
And, to rub salt into the wounds, it came to light recently that American schoolkids are being taught that Winston Churchill was actually himself an American. Some 20-something typical mouthy American student was seen yelling into the TV camera that all us Brits would now be speaking the German lanuguage if it weren't for the US military saving our butts in WWII.
And not forgetting, of course, how badly those early American settlers had treated the indigenous peoples. The same sick mentality prevails even to this day. Dare I mention Iraq? Recently-released photos on the Internet of US troops using illegal torture methods on innocent folk. And the poor old Yankie officials now scratching their heads, left wondering why they are so despised by so many other nations.
Probably the best thing that this country can do is to give those damn Nimrods to the Yanks to go play with.
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plattypus-oz

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2011, 08:53:16 PM »

Culling politicians then go to jail and get better care than in a nursing home free dental and all the other perks. The brothers Wright were not the first to powered flight it was not Australians ashamed to admit. but those from across the big pond in New Zealand. <:(  If you know where Hargreaves jumped off the mountain in his kites they would lock him up now and put him on anti depressants. %%
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class37

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2011, 09:01:46 PM »

going back to the original subject, why is it that when I buy something, and it doesn't work, I take it back and the manufacturer has to replace or repair, but with MOD contracts they buy something, it doesn't work, and then the taxpayer has to pay the manufacturer even more to put right their shoddy work ?

is it me, or is there something wrong there ?

Buy a Nimrod from BAE, wheels won't come down, bomb bay doors won't open, back to BAE ----- FIX IT!
at your expense - not fit for purpose.

as that mammal says ..Simples.
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furball

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2011, 10:48:26 AM »

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tigertiger

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2011, 11:22:34 AM »

I can only draw a comparison with the Belgian FN rifle. Known to the British Army as the SLR. Solid, dependable and cheap.

Its replacement was to be the SA 80/bull pup. Not dependable and not cheap.
The main selling point of the SA80 was the Trilux sight, which was in simple term, brilliant. The trilux sight was a quantum leap from the old iron sights.
However the Trilux could have been fitted on any other rifle.

Then there was the argument to move from 7.62mm rounds to 5.56mm.
However Hechler & Koch (HK) already had 5.56mm weapons developed at low cost, and on the market in the mid 1980s.

The drive was the Britain need to produce its own infantry rifle. Something it had not done for a long time.

From my understanding, the latest iteration of the SA 80 is in fact an HK modified weapon. With a post production modification cost of 400 GBP per item. The mod cost is almost the cost was almost the cost of a new weapon. NB at the time HK was owned by Royal Ordinance.

I think I read somewhere that even many American cars are more than 50% overseas sourced parts. As such I cannot understand the obsession with Made in UK. It does not work in any other industry.

During WW2 we had to be independent for manufacture. Since then we have lost the knack, the manufacturing skills and the money. Most of our new planes since 1970 have been JVs with Germany and Italy.

Looking at furball's posted link. Yes it is a gap in our strategic capability. But do we really need to/have to be the producer.
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pugwash

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2011, 12:23:56 PM »

We are not the only nation that makes a foul up when we introduce new kit for the military - remember when the Americans replaced the M1 Garrard
rifle with the AR15 during the Vietnam War - they had to make several mods and introduce a better regime of maintenance/cleaning by the troops before
it became the successful rifle it is today.
I beleive there have been serious problems with variants of the F35. Further in the past look at the problems the F104 caused.
It is just that we hear about our c--k ups and  believe that it is  only our industry  which is incapable of making a good equipment.
Even th Germans recently made a class of corvettes which nobody wanted and have proved not to be fit for purpose - half of them
couldnt leave harbour due to gearbox problems etc. etc.
It is just that us being British and with our defence procurement system we seem to do it far more expensively.
There is no excuse for poorly made, over budget kit. BUT DON'T THINK IT JUST HAPPENS HERE - IT IS ENDEMIC WITHIN THE DEFENCE INDUSTRY WORLDWIDE.
Geoff
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dodgy geezer

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2011, 12:26:09 PM »

going back to the original subject, why is it that when I buy something, and it doesn't work, I take it back and the manufacturer has to replace or repair, but with MOD contracts they buy something, it doesn't work, and then the taxpayer has to pay the manufacturer even more to put right their shoddy work ?

The answer is not hard to find. Look for it in the Bristol (Abbey Wood) offices of that august body, the MOD Procurement Executive/Defence Procurement Agency/Defence Equipment & Support (to give them a selection of their most recent names.

If you buy an item and it works perfectly, you put it in a drawer and are happy. If they buy an item and everything works perfectly, they are out of a job for 10 years until the next purchase is required. This is, of course a general problem with all specialist procurement agencies, but our civil servants are the best in the world at 'civil service' skills....

simples...
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Circlip

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2011, 02:16:24 PM »

"Nobody does it better"   :-)) {-)

  Regards  Ian
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malcolmfrary

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2011, 02:21:47 PM »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/mod-bribes-scandal-cost-hundreds-of-british-jobs-1502116.html
And you are left to wonder how many more were/are in there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Foxley
Lost 2 years of his life, was allowed to keep the illicit gains from throwing a town out of work.
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DavieTait

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2011, 03:12:31 PM »

Looks like I was wrong about there being no more Nimrods flying , the spooks have 2 R1 aircraft still operational over Afghanistan

MoD decision to use older version of Nimrod ‘crazy’

Read more: http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2116019#ixzz1Cij2zmq2

two R1 planes still being used in spy role in skies over Afghanistan

By David Perry

Published: 01/02/2011

One of the ‘Secret Squirrel’ Nimrods at RAF Kinloss
More Pictures

A Ministry of Defence decision to carry on using an older version of the scrapped Nimrod surveillance aircraft, due to be based at RAF Kinloss in Moray, in a spy-in-the-sky role over Afghanistan was labelled “crazy” last night.

SNP defence spokesman Angus Robertson, MP for Moray, hit out after it was revealed two Nimrod R1 planes of 51 Squadron, based at RAF Waddington near Lincoln, are still being used in the war zone.

One of the “Secret Squirrels” broke cover last week to land at RAF Kinloss, performing “circuits and bumps” at the base and “dummy approach and overshoots” at Kirkwall in Orkney, to the amazement of onlookers who thought the Nimrods were history.

It flew out to Afghanistan at the weekend to replace its sister, which was returning home early after springing a fuel leak.

Mr Robertson said: “The UK Government are making one crazy decision after another on defence.

“The MoD need to say how it is possible that the oldest R1 aircraft are still in service when MR2s are grounded and new MR4s are being scrapped.

“We are also in the bizarre position of the R1 being replaced with an even older Joint Rivet aircraft, bought second-hand from the United States, just as our own new, state-of-the-art Nimrods are being scrapped on the factory floor.”

The MR2s, which were performing surveillance duties over Afghanistan, were grounded after one, the XV230, blew up over Kandahar in 2006, killing all 14 on board.

The assistant deputy coroner for Oxfordshire ruled the MR2 “had never been airworthy from the first time it was released into service nearly 40 years ago.”

Only three MR2s remain at RAF Kinloss. One is being broken up, one is in a hangar awaiting its fate and the third is a “gate guardian” at the far end of the airfield.

Nine MRA4s, costing £450million each and once destined for Kinloss, are being broken up at Woodford, Cheshire.

Aviation writer David Morgan, of Forres, said: “People have forgotten about the two intelligence-gathering R1s that will continue to fly until March 2012.

“MoD spin might suggest they are different from the grounded MR2, but only in function.

“Underneath the skin they are still Nimrods and the airframe at RAF Kinloss this week is just a reworked Nimrod MR2.

“This entire episode is a disgrace and the UK’s air defences have been severely weakened by the collective Nimrod decisions.”

Last night, Defence Secretary Liam Fox vigorously defended the decision to scrap the MRA4s and accused Labour critics of talking “humbug”.

He said the last Labour government opened up a gap in defences by grounding the MR2s and filled it using helicopters and other aircraft.

Mr Fox said the replacement MRA4 was “too long over time, too far over budget”.

He added: “It wasn’t able to fly and carry out the tasks that were asked of it. It should have been cancelled years ago.”



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Davie Tait,
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Circlip

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2011, 04:21:05 PM »

Quote
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/mod-bribes-scandal-cost-hundreds-of-british-jobs-1502116.html
And you are left to wonder how many more were/are in there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Foxley
Lost 2 years of his life, was allowed to keep the illicit gains from throwing a town out of work.

Shhhhh don't mention the BAe/Saudi deal.

  Regards  Ian

  
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john s 2

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2011, 04:32:39 PM »

Good job fuel was not where it was before, otherwise wed only have one Nimrod left. John
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malcolmfrary

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2011, 05:21:00 PM »

Shhhhh don't mention the BAe/Saudi deal.

  Regards  Ian

  
True, but the Saudis neither had a home aerospace industry, nor any intention of getting one, so there was no question of a Saudi committing treason against his countrymen by destroying their livelihoods.  And the BAe backhanders were probably bigger and better than the Lockheed ones, so it was just a reallocation of wealth, and business as usual for the time and place.
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Circlip

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2011, 06:11:31 PM »

Ahh, right, the acceptable face of corruption.  :-))

  Regards  Ian.
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unbuiltnautilus

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2011, 06:24:55 PM »

seeing the news footage of the Nimrods at the hands of the JCBs, being broken up, reminds me of another glorious episode in the history of british aviation. The destruction of the TSR2, plus all the jigs etc,etc. There seems to be an indecent haste to reduce this aircraft to scrap. Although reading the previous posts, Nimrod does not seem to be in the same class as TSR2 could have been. I personally would prefer to see the silhouette of Nimrod in the air rather than another Boeing 737, albeit painted gray!!                       The ongoing procurement madness over the years beggars belief, Airbus A400 over Hercules C130J, which I believe we already have in service in the RAF. The same RAF that disposed of Joint Force Harrier to rationalise on the number of airframe types in service (not to scupper the Fleet Air Arm, god forbid!). Eurofighter Typhoon, which took so long coming into service ( I can remember the EAP Prototype at Farnborough Airshow in the mid eighties.) that it is the only truly modern design for which 'stealth' is a name and a possible coat of paint only. The US F22 is in service, admittedly you could probably purchase a couple of minehunters for the cost of one of those, The F35 is flying, The Russians have prototype stealth fighters in the air, and yet, between what is it, five nations, all we can manage is a super agile fighter with the probable radar cross section of a barn door!
We are cutting the Frigate and Destroyer fleet to the bone, while at the same time sending RFA tankers to chase pirates, the Type 22 frigates,recently modified to carry more RIBs are being cut from the fleet this year. I feel the defence of the land would be better served in the hands of our boat clubs committee, and that is saying something %% %%.
I could go on....Type 26 frigates already being downgraded in capability after being designed with existing technology where possible to keep costs down, and they are not even being built yet..

But..
Why can we not build Boeing P8 Poseidons under licence in this country. It worked for Westland Helicopters in the 60s,70s and 80s with Whirlwind, Wessex and Sea King helicopters all based on Sikorsky designs, with our own bits of junk added?
I would be happier with the long range patrol and search and rescue role available than not, if that means Boeing product rather than the graceful ( in my eyes anyway ) Nimrod, so be it. But to do without it, simply because the costs overran, seems foolish, reckless, even criminal.....

Anyway, back to a bit of boat modelling...
Damn! My superglue has dried up....I HATE THAT!!!!! :-))
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dodgy geezer

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2011, 07:11:57 PM »

Are there one or two airworthy Shackletons left around somewhere....?
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class37

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2011, 07:51:34 PM »

Shhhhhh !

don't mention Shacks.

good solid aircraft.

did what it said on the box - and much much more.

even changed roles when the newer Nimrod based AEW aircraft didn't work out, and soldiered on for years and years.

so: good aircraft - effective - versatile - very good value for money .............................

couldn't possibly want something like that again could we ?
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dodgy geezer

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2011, 08:27:05 PM »

Perhaps we can get the Chinese to make us some Shackletons and sell then to us for 100m each? I understand the Nimrods were costing upwards of 400m each. Or maybe the Russians have some spare Tu-95 Bear Ds they could lend us....
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Jimmy James

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2011, 08:41:42 PM »

In an Emergency We could always recommission the Lanc with her attendant Spitfires and Hurricane and for high speed work the one Air worthy Vulcan the odd Shack or 2 for maritime reconnaissance. The RAF should be able too make do,,, and while we are about it for the RN, HMS Victory , HMS Warrior and the Teak built Frigate Trincamalee and not to forget HMS Belfast
 ( Bloody good job they didn't sell HMS Victory to that French outfit )   The Army should be able to re-arm its self from the Muckleburg collection backed up by Royal armouries in Sheffield and the Royal tank Museum at Bodmin There you are the country's defences sorted out for the next 10 years and I 'm  not a bean counter or a Politician
 Freebooter
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john s 2

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2011, 09:07:39 PM »

Make that two Vulcans the one at Southend airport taxis. Bit more work and Bobs your uncle. John.
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class37

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2011, 09:15:05 PM »

makes you wonder why we need an MOD, perhaps MBM could do a better job, and at a fraction of the price, although the fact that they have actual knowledge of what they are talking about could be a DISadvantage.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2011, 09:32:16 PM »


There you are the country's defences sorted out for the next 10 years and I 'm  not a bean counter or a Politician..


Well, we did much the same at Dunkirk....

I have a plan based on Cpl. Jones' butchers van from Dad's Army. We borrow a couple of Airbus A320 short-haul airliners from Easyjet. Then we load them with 50 cadets with Lee-Enfields. You fly up to the intruder into UK airspace, turn parallel to it, then the cadets open the windows on that side (2,3), poke the rifles out (2,3), then shout "BANG!" (2.3).... 
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john s 2

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2011, 09:35:02 PM »

That should make the intruders injury themselves laughing. John.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: NIMROD THE MIGHTY HUNTER
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2011, 09:48:26 PM »

They don't like it up 'em.....!! {-) {-)
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