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Author Topic: Big Naval Mistake....  (Read 3548 times)

Colin Bishop

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Big Naval Mistake....
« on: February 19, 2011, 04:30:47 pm »

Isn't it rather ironic that having elected to scrap a good proportion of the Royal Navy and reduce the amphibious capacity orf the RFA on the basis that there are no threats on the horizon for the next ten years or so, the Middle East  promptly erupts to the extent that it is entirely possible that we may need to protect our vital interests in the area? I also imagine that Bahrain is one of the states that the RAF were relying upon to base/stage their aircraft in the event they might be required in the theatre.

Maybe they should be putting the engines back in the Ark....

Colin
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John W E

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 05:13:57 pm »

 :-))

total agreement there Colin - the powers that be never ever learn from history  :-))

aye
john
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kinmel

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 07:07:44 pm »


It's a long standing British political tradition.

It even has a name,  "Planning for yesterday"
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Dekan

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 08:07:53 pm »

Cutting the Navy and Air force is a major mistake for an island nation and will come home to roost very quickly...DC and co are in for a severe kicking if any crisis happens that our enfeebled Navy and Air force can't cope with..

The rich will be the first to moan if their oversea assists and tax havens  are under attack...
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CGAux26

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2011, 09:24:26 pm »

No matter how hard we pull, we cannot pop the pols heads out of their a..'s.  This applies on both sides of the Atlantic.   :-)) <*<  Better learn to speak arab.
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NormanB

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2011, 11:19:13 pm »

We need to reduce all areas of public health spending so that we can prop up the NHS so that it can continue to extend everyones life so they spend the last ten years of their life drooling into their porridge!
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nick_75au

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 05:27:32 am »

Over here its is becoming similar, recently there was a news article about our amphibious landing ships, Tobrok (to-broken) Kanimbla and Manoora, one of them was to be deployed to the Cyclone ravaged North Queensland, however all three are unserviceable, Kanimbla and Manoora apparently never to sail again.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/national/national/general/aust-humiliated-over-sos-to-nz-for-vessel/2079088.aspx

Looks like we have to rely on our Kiwi friends :embarrassed: <:(  for our troop transport for a while

Nick
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derekwarner

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 05:56:49 am »

mmmm....a number of years ago...our OZ military leader.....Major General Peter Cosgrove fell out of favour with both sides of Government for speaking his mind  :-)) on matter of national defence rather than the political spin required by the >>:-( <*<  politicians......

I was not aware of the state of HMAS Kanimbla and Manoora ....just imagine how the Australian naval men & women serving in all of our vessels feel.....  <:( .....Derek
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roycv

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 11:45:46 am »

Hi all, looks like the invitation list of 'kings' for the royal wedding might trigger some action while they are away, That's how Idi Amin came to power! (head of state at conference)

Trouble is that in the hind sight of history cuts will always come out wrong for those that made them.
regards Roy
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richtea

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 12:39:48 pm »

How many times are we going to be caught with our pants down ?
All politicians seem to have a crystal ball that only shows cloudless skies and sunny days ahead.
From 1918 all we have done is cut the navy, and in all that time only one lord of the admiralty has resigned, Jackie Fisher.
( someone please correct me if i am wrong on this ).
My signature at the bottom is to be found somewhere above a door in the old admiralty building.
Roughly translated it means If you want peace, prepare for war.
Regards
Richard

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Bryan Young

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2011, 04:57:55 pm »

How much of this "tragedy" can be apportioned between the "politicians" and the "civil" servants who, ostensibly, are there to guide and advise? Let's take a closer look at these so-called "impartial" servants of the State. Keeping it apolitical, look back a little while at some of the disastrous decisions reached and promulgated. The Foreign Office for one seemed to become so anally retentive that the word "foreign" should have been deleted. The Home Office similarly appeared to be politically lead by people with no conception of the duties of High Office...and were "guided" by the CS. The MoD has for years been only interested in its own overblown survival to the detriment of those who it (the MoD) is only supposed to provide support. I guess you can all pick out your favourite....but honestly, although I hold no politician in high regard...are they the only ones a finger should be pointed at? BY.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2011, 05:14:08 pm »

How much of this "tragedy" can be apportioned between the "politicians" and the "civil" servants who, ostensibly, are there to guide and advise? Let's take a closer look at these so-called "impartial" servants of the State. Keeping it apolitical, look back a little while at some of the disastrous decisions reached and promulgated.

BY is quite correct that most government policy (not only MOD) is now made by a cosy cabal of civil servants and industrialists who lobby them (and provide them with jobs when they leave). The aim of this lobbying is to pass money to the businessmen, setting up grandiose projects which provide little practical outcome, but which provide a continuous steady stream of profit for the companies involved.

You will find this occurs most often in the military, computing and health areas - these are the places where big money can easily be spent. And the beauty of it all is that the civil servants are anonymous, and if anything catastrophic happens (that is, is publicised,) the politicians carry the can. A classic example was the Identity Card proposal - it was in no manifesto, no politician wanted it, it was a money waster with no votes in, yet the Home Office fought for it tooth and nail...

The Civil Service should be investigated far more often by the papers. Alas, the papers are no longer capable of investigating anything - they get their news from the bolgs...
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pugwash

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2011, 05:16:30 pm »

I would agree with you Bryan but to an outsider the senior civil servants and our ministers are so linterlinked you don't know who made so of these
awful decisions and I think the public perception is that they are one and the same - Guilt by association might be apt.  You are probably right that the
C.S. make the bullets  behind the scenes and the government takes the flak. I do believe you will never get a good system of government in this country
until the civil service has been overhauled. You would almost think successive government ministers are in awe of their P.P.S. and cannot take a decision
without the nod from the "Sir Humphreys".

Geoff
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2011, 06:04:48 pm »

Also, senior civil servants are expected to be 'on message'. Politicians don't like having their cherished ideas challenged and even constructive criticism can be given short shrift with a potential knock on effect on career prospects.

At a rather more humble level my early retirement was due to a considerable extent to my not being willing to blindly toe the official line over certain policies that were being pursued. As it happened I was right and they were wrong and they suspected it at the time but rocking the boat is not a career enhancing practice. Senior people had gone on record as supporting the policies and backtracking simply wasn't an option. They felt a bit guilty about it however so I didn't do too badly out of it and the freelance work I do at the moment is far more interesting and totally under my control.

Colin
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Dekan

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2011, 07:53:56 pm »

Also, senior civil servants are expected to be 'on message'. Politicians don't like having their cherished ideas challenged and even constructive criticism can be given short shrift with a potential knock on effect on career prospects.

At a rather more humble level my early retirement was due to a considerable extent to my not being willing to blindly toe the official line over certain policies that were being pursued. As it happened I was right and they were wrong and they suspected it at the time but rocking the boat is not a career enhancing practice. Senior people had gone on record as supporting the policies and backtracking simply wasn't an option. They felt a bit guilty about it however so I didn't do too badly out of it and the freelance work I do at the moment is far more interesting and totally under my control.

Colin
One hand washes the other. The press only target the minor MP,s
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Jimmy James

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2011, 08:02:46 pm »

I've said this before and I'm afraid I must say it again  {:-{ ...It is historical fact that any Ruling Person/government since Alfred the Great that has has cut the Navy and the armed services... then this country has allways been dragged into a war the last time was the Falklands This is an Island Nation and we are surrounded by our traditional Enemy's ---- They might be allies at the moment but they are still our Enemy's, ,The hight of foolishness is to disarm our selves in their mist. It's not just shooting wars we have to guard against it any perceived weakness (Remember it was a friendly government in Spain that was elected on a mandate that they would distroy the British fishing industry...and they did a bloody good job ...Oops!!! Who put that soap box there?
De Freebooter   >:-o  >>:-(  <*<
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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2011, 10:42:03 am »

Now we are seeing an Iranian Frigate and Logistics vessel transiting the Suez Canal  <*< <*<

Ned
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roycv

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2011, 02:05:23 pm »

Hi please correct me if I am wrong but recent watching of cable channels, warfare etc., An Argentine pilot said that the first aircraft they lost to a Harrier, on the 1st. May, was a Canberra bomber / fighter. (They could be outfitted for both rolls, I used to help do it).
I proffer this gem on the basis that when we 'cut' we sell it off.  Then it comes back to bite you.
regards Roy
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Nordsee

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 02:09:13 pm »

Within a month or so these ships will be escorting anothe "Peace Convoy" to Gaza, taunting the Israelis, they never learn, they should remember how fast Israel wrapped up Egypt, Syria and Jordan during the last full blown war in that area!.
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Lord Bungle

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 07:08:39 pm »

IMHO the only cuts we should be going for are the ones that remove the heads from certain politicians  in several parties  >>:-(
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john s 2

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 07:50:00 pm »

Why only certain heads? Most or all would be better. John.
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justboatonic

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2011, 08:16:47 pm »

Well, I didnt vote for them so my conscience is clear  :-))

Maybe I should go hug a 'hoodie'?  <*<
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Bryan Young

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2011, 09:42:24 pm »

The Iranian transit of the Suez Canal has been mentioned. Putting aside all personal leanings....why shouldn't they be allowed to transit? At the height of the "cold war" both Russian and American vessels were granted transit. This would certainly not have been allowed if the Canal in question was the Panama. The Suez Canal is (basically) open to vessels of any Nation State and I honestly don't know why the Iranian Navy was singled out for disbarment. I have my own feelings on this, but I do think that the USA may just have had a finger in that pie. Over the years, there have been many other "rogue" states that were still allowed to transit. I hold no brief for the present Iranian regime, but I can certainly understand why they were feeling a bit miffed. BY.
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Lord Bungle

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 11:15:44 pm »

Why only certain heads? Most or all would be better. John.
I didn't want to sound like an extremist  {-)
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Netleyned

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Re: Big Naval Mistake....
« Reply #24 on: February 23, 2011, 06:05:48 am »

Cut off all their extremes   <*< <*<

Ned
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