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Author Topic: Japan Earthquake & Tsunami  (Read 16359 times)

RRS01

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2011, 04:17:20 pm »

If your mormon 'friends' ever come back, ask them to explain about the "Mountain Meadows Massacre" ...  >>:-(  <*<

Basically, it's where a bunch of mormons dressed up as Indians attacked a group of pioneers in a wagon train going through southern Utah ... and, after they couldn't wipe them out after a few days, another bunch of mormons came in, saying that it was all a BIG misunderstanding, and if they gave up their weapons the "indians" would let them (the "saviors") escort them (the pioneers) out ...

when the pioneers agreed, they were disarmed,  escorted out, and  promptly massacred by their "good mormon saviors" ... after they were done murdering all the adult males, they murdered all the adult females, then they murdered all the children over the age of eight (if I remember right, according to the mormon  cult, at age eight you basically "acquire" a consciousness and can be 'baptized')  then they stole everything of value, from the livestock and wagons down to the clothes their victims were wearing ...

Like my Father often told me, "The only "good mormon" is a dead mormon!!"  O0  :-))

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regiment

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2011, 05:56:32 pm »

watching the news about the earthquake where and how do you start to clean up not to mention rebuilding
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HawkEye

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2011, 11:01:21 pm »

Some screen grabs of today's RSOE earthquake list, their still having some bad shaking over there.







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PMK

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2011, 04:37:16 am »

Like my Father often told me, "The only "good mormon" is a dead mormon!!"  O0  :-))

It's not for me to sit in judgement of anyone, but I can't help myself being totally in agreement with your father's words.
Some say that the Mormons were driven to such drastic actions because of their paranoia. Nonsense! They were driven by their own greed, fear of their own shadows, their love of weapons, and ultimately proved themselves to be a bunch of spineless, women-hating control freaks hiding behind their so-called church.
As if all these recent disasters which are currently happening in the world isn't bad enough, try to imagine how those early pioneers must have felt when they witnessed their wives, their husbands, their children and their friends being blatantly murdered by some weird cult.
It's also uncanny to note that the day of the massacre itself tallies with another infamous day in American history -- September 11th.
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tigertiger

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2011, 05:20:09 am »

In fairness, that was a long time ago. That would be like blaming me for the atrocities of the Boer War, slavery, or anything else that was done in the past.

I stayed and worked with a Mormon family in the USA. Most of the workers were also from the Church of LDS. Other than the fact that they did not drink or smoke or do drugs, they behaved pretty much like anyone else who went to Church in the City They don't tolerate paedophiles either. The teenagers got up to hanky panky, and from all outward appearances no different from anyone else.

Most of the Mormons we will see in UK are on their 'Mission', the others live in the UK and you would never know. They have to do their compulsory 2 year mission, or get excommunicated. They are sent to all corners of the world, do two years, then go home to a normal life. And so what we see knocking on our door is not a Mormon on a normal day, leading their normal life.

The family I stayed with treated me incredibly well, and did not object to my drinking. Perfect hosts. They accepted me for who I was, respected my beliefs and lifestyle, and nobody tried to convert me.

There is a lot of religious dogma in the world, too much, and like most dogma it does not reflect reality.

My 2 cents.
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PMK

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2011, 07:25:38 am »

Also, in all fairness, I or anyone else could punch a zillion holes in your argument. For instance, I too, as I'm sure countless other Brits, have lived and worked with foreign friends, and I too was treated with curtesy and respect. The only difference being that the folk I stayed with were not at all religious in any way -- just normal average folk with a fair sense of politeness and manners. In other words, living proof that one does not need to be a church-going type in order to respect one's fellow human being. Without wishing to sound at all negative or wishing to fall out over this, the example you gave of being treated well by one particular sect is somewhat biased. Understandably so.
Also (quote): "Most of the Mormons we will see in UK are on their 'Mission'" (unquote). Now there is the crux of the matter. Pray tell me, what is 'normal' that any child should be raised to believe that it is their mission to preach to others? Why on God's earth do some folk believe they are superior in the sense that they feel it their duty to preach their beliefs on, let's say, lesser mortals?
That said, I really do admire that your Mormon buddies are raised to be anti-drugs/anti-alcohol/anti-violence and with a semi-sence of resect for others. But (here's the biggie), a documentary on TV some two or three years ago, filming the everyday lives of Mormans in Utah over a period of several months. A bunch of Mormon teens were permitted to leave the confines of their usual lives in order to go out into the big, wide world and to experience life from another perspective. Guess what? 98% of those teens had the good sense to find a job, to avoid the undesirables (drug dealers and the like), and generally live their lives the way which THEY wanted to live - and they each made a success of it. Just 2% of those teens returned to Utah. Just two diddly per-cent. And only because they received letters from their parents threatening that they would be dismissed from their families if they did not return.
Does the words "bullied" or "brainwashed" ring any bells here?
Furthermore, the womanfolk, when interviewed in the aforementiond documentary, secretly admitted that they too longed to be given the chance of experiencing a life other than the usual hum-drum drudgery of sharing their husband with several other women. Basically, they are treated as second-class citizens, brainwashed from an early age that their only role in life is to cater to their husband's every whim.
Does that sound fair to you? One ends up questioning just what sort of people these Mormon 'men' are. Their only aim in life is to make $$$. They are driven by senseless greed, yet all the while they feel that it's perfectly normal to sleep with many wives and to treat those wives as nothing short of skivvies.

You can try to justify it until you are blue in the face, but decent, honest folk will never forget - let alone forgive - the actions of those Mormon murderers on Sept. 11th, 1857, for the very same mentality of greed and nastiness still secretly lurks in the modern-day Mormon.

My 2 cents.
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tigertiger

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2011, 09:01:11 am »

I'm not justifying it. Just saying don't blame the current generation.

There have been many atrocities in history, all inexcusable. Us brits are not blameless. But I am not responsible for the 'Black Hole of Calcutta".

But we are a long way off topic here.
It started as the Japan Earthquake.
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PMK

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2011, 09:49:37 am »

Agreed.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2011, 10:03:12 am »


...It started as the Japan Earthquake...



...which is not doing well. As HawkEye says, damaging aftershocks are still occurring, and there has been another hydrogen release/explosion - this time from "xxxxx" Daiichi 3. I understand that both of these reactors are very old - FD1 was going to be closed down in a month, so damage to them is not critically important, but it still indicates that they do not have them under complete control yet. And people are getting hurt....

I am surprised at the second explosion - heat and pressure levels should have fallen to less than 10% of operating levels by now, so there should be little need to vent. BraveNewClimate has a very good technical summary on the situation prepared by Dr Josef Oehmen here: http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/"xxxxx"-simple-explanation/ , which is well worth reading to understand what is going on.

And this video: http://ow.ly/4dvh0 shows what it's like to be at ground level when the water comes in....


PS - you will all be glad to hear that Martin's nanny package is preventing us from typing F u k u s h i m a ....
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regiment

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2011, 11:24:10 am »

still waiting for an answer to my question how and where do you start to clear up the mess
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tigertiger

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2011, 11:46:29 am »

At the edge I suppose.

This is going to take years. It may be that many villages are re-located, and nearly all structures will have to be built from scratch.

I would not be surprised if it cost several hundred billion dollars.
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2011, 12:28:13 pm »


This is going to take years....


The death-toll is going to be tragic, of course, but the property damage (though major) probably looks worse than it is. Most of the buildings seem to be of light wood construction and not strongly attached to the ground (the Japanese must use this technique to earthquake-proof their homes), so they will wash away in a huge mess of debris.

But the debris will be easily collected and disposed of - it is much lighter than the equivalent stone or brick of other countries. And I suspect that this form of housing is quite rapid to replace. Let us hope that the press are employing their usual ill-informed exaggeration, and that the deaths are less high than the appalling figures we are being told ... 
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tigertiger

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2011, 12:55:35 pm »

Hi DG

I think a longer period will be required for the infrastructure, which had evolved over time. I think they will need to build new towns from scratch.

It is not hard to put in new roads, drains, sewers, etc. But it takes time.
One of the saddest features is that they will not be rehousing a lot of people, as the population may no longer be there.

The traditional and modern industries that supported these towns and cities grew from a legacy of old fishing villages. Perhaps many of the older ways of life and traditional industries have been literally washed away. And starting new industries may mean it is better (in terms of business efficiency) to relocate. And I am sure many would not want to return to their old home towns, for many and various reasons.
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pugwash

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2011, 01:35:39 pm »

They are still in the search and rescue phase at present - but this will include some clearance - mainly roads to allow any search teams access.
I beleive they are using helicopters operating from a carrier offshore.  It will be far quicker to get teams in when the main roads have been
cleared of debris. The japanese with good reason have a well trained disaster relief organisation and when they can do no more for the living
then it will be collecting the bodies then they will start putting the main infrastucture back together.
Can you imagine what it would be like in this country if the same thing had happened on the east coast.  As it is such an unlikely event here
we would be far less organised than they are.

Geoff
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2011, 02:37:16 pm »


Can you imagine what it would be like in this country if the same thing had happened on the east coast.  As it is such an unlikely event here
we would be far less organised than they are.


We had something similar in 1953, and lost 300 souls - more if you count shipwrecks like Princess Victoria. Of course, we now monitor tide heights very closely.

However, there is a another danger which is far less well monitored. That is the danger of submarine mudslides falling off the continental shelf into the abyssal plain. The drop off the Norwegian coast is something like 3,500m, and when a section of the seabed slides down this it pulls down the water above it. When the sea rebounds, you get a tidal wave. This happened off Storegga about 7000 years ago - several thousand cubic kilometers of mud (!) shifted, and caused massive floods across Scotland. There are estimates suggesting that a similar happening would give us 30ft waves along the NE coast. http://www.landforms.eu/shetland/Storegga.html#S1 may be of interest...

Minor slides of this kind happen all the time. But, as far as I know (sorry, DickyD), nobody is monitoring the sea bed (outside of the drilling areas) to determine if another big one is imminent. So it is quite possible that we (and the other North Sea nations) may be faced with a similar catastrophe tomorrow....
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dreadnought72

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2011, 03:14:17 pm »

Could be worse, Dodgy Geezer: if (when?) Cumbrae Vieja on the Canaries slides majestically into the Atlantic - all 500km3 of it - we can say goodbye to the US's eastern seaboard.  :o

Andy
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2011, 03:29:33 pm »

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Dekan

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2011, 05:12:01 pm »

HM Government are going to have very hard job selling new Nuclear Power stations to the great British public now...

Especially now the would be terrorist knows exactly how to damage one so as to cause the maximium amount of panic....Just sabotage the power to the cooling system and it's back up generators...Jobs a goodun.. {:-{  

I always thought Maggie was too obsessed in destroying the mining unions,to consider whether a cleaner version of Coal Fired Power stations might be desirable in the future... <:(  

Now we don't seem to have plan B >:-o
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dreadnought72

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2011, 05:27:13 pm »

.. but we do have a Sizewell B.  %%
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John W E

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2011, 06:04:34 pm »

hi

I think this puts the whole human race in its place - we realise we are just guests on this fragile planet of ours.  We are really masters of nothing, even though it says the human race is the most intelligent - they didnt see mother nature coming there did they.   Very, very sad and I hope people learn by it.....especially our Government - I hope the UK Government take stock of it all with the complacancy they have about safety!  As Pugwash has already stated, if it happened in our Country it wouldnt be the devastation but it would be the devastation of what the Government did that would affect us more.   Look at how the few inches of snow played havoc in the UK AND LOOK at the response the Government gave - quick - I think not.   They would certainly spend a week to ensure it was safe to do anything.

aye

john
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regiment

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2011, 07:36:09 pm »

thanks tigar tigar  for answering my question  this is the time to let bygones be bygones  sorry for the children who have lost parents
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Patternmaker

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2011, 07:59:08 pm »

I was involved in the 1953 floods on Canvey Island which claimed 58 lives, the horrendous pictures coming from
Japan has bought back bad memories for me, there will be many survivors mentally scarred as I have been throughout my
Life, my heartfelt wishes go to all concerned


http://www.canveyisland.org/page_id__319_path__0p2p19p.aspx
 


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dodgy geezer

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2011, 08:55:12 pm »


HM Government are going to have very hard job selling new Nuclear Power stations to the great British public now...

Especially now the would be terrorist knows exactly how to damage one so as to cause the maximium amount of panic....Just sabotage the power to the cooling system and it's back up generators...Jobs a goodun.. {:-{  


I might have thought the opposite.

It's probably worth mentioning that all new nuclear power stations are designed to automatically fail safe if power or any other outside service goes, without user intervention, and are able to be closed down completely with no external services being required at all. But the stations we have at the moment are old, run past their design age, and in some cases considerably more dangerous than the Japanese ones.

If I was really frightened about a power station failure, I would be calling for them all to be replaced with nice new reliable ones...

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TomTheKraut

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2011, 12:44:44 pm »

As current events sadly show, there is no such thing as "fail safe" when it comes to nuclear matter.
Give a push hard enough and the control mechanisms will fail, even when the push (generally) was expected.
These reactors in Japan were considered earthquake-proof up to a very high amount of "push", and most likely, they have fulfilled that criterion in the past. Unfortunately Mankind is still arrogant enough to ignore the fact that in comparison to Nature's forces we and our best and "safest" efforts are only minuscule and can as easily be swiped away as we swat a fly...

Even if no detonation will occur in the affected power plants (which I sincerely hope and what I pray for!), the leakage alone does contaminate and will for a long time continue to contaminate a vast area of one of the most highly populated nation in the world, killing people instantly as well as slowly and painfully. Safe? Ha!

New technologies (no matter whethere one labels them as "safe" or "safer") can always only withstand those forces that are known at the time of the development of these technologies. So maybe some "genius" will state that new nuclear power plants will have to resist an earthquake of a 9.5-magnitude. Everybody happy, politicians pleased and well-paid by the power companies, plant built regardless of location (because it has reached a new, never-had-before "safety" level), next thing our planet decides is flex its muscles a bit more and - pow! - produce an Earthquake of magnitude 10. Just because it has never been reported, that does not mean it's not coming...
May I just spell "San-Andreas-Fault"? Experts (serious people, not just the ones mixing PR greed with ignorance) inside and outside the U.S. are adamant that a big earthquake down there is overdue - just imagine an earthquake of the current Japan magnitude happening with its epicentre not 100 miles out of the coast but right under the buildings of San Francisco. Safe nuclear power plants?

For me the logical conclusion is: the sooner we can replace the nuclear power plants by different but less hazardous technologies, the better for us. And for our successing generations. Plutonium has a half life of 24,000 years while a human generation is considered to last about 25 years... safe? Half life only means that 960 generations after a power plant meltdown a human being in that area needs to ingest about 100mg (0.00352 fl oz) of Pu to drop dead instead of 50mg right after the incident... yep, safe...
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dodgy geezer

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Re: Japan Earthquake!
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2011, 03:20:28 pm »


Even if no detonation will occur in the affected power plants (which I sincerely hope and what I pray for!), the leakage alone does contaminate and will for a long time continue to contaminate a vast area of one of the most highly populated nation in the world, killing people instantly as well as slowly and painfully. Safe? Ha!


Umm...what leakage is that? These reactors have multiple layers of protection. One (the cooling system) has been damaged by the earthquake/wave. The others are still in place, and there is no reason why they should not protect against any leakage.

There has been some venting of short-lived isotopes to lower pressure. Beyond trace amounts of caesium and iodine (which have long since disappeared into the Pacific), this was mainly N-16. N-16 has a half-life of 7 seconds, so it will 'continue to contaminate a vast area of one of the most highly populated nations in the world' for less than a minute. The typical dose from this venting ingested by the local population is about equivalent to 1 month's natural radiation. A quick calculation suggests to me that that is the rough equivalent of eating 200 bananas, or a couple of pounds of Brazil nuts, or a return flight from Europe to the US - anyone with a better maths want to check that out for me...?


For me the logical conclusion is: the sooner we can replace the nuclear power plants by different but less hazardous technologies, the better for us. And for our successing generations. Plutonium has a half life of 24,000 years while a human generation is considered to last about 25 years... safe? Half life only means that 960 generations after a power plant meltdown a human being in that area needs to ingest about 100mg (0.00352 fl oz) of Pu to drop dead instead of 50mg right after the incident... yep, safe...

There is no Plutonium in these reactors. There is, however, quite a lot on the ground around the world as fallout from nuclear bomb testing in the 1950s. In fact, there is more from this source than there would be if all the world's reactors were to blow up simultaneously, and it's in the dust around our feet. And, surprise, surprise, we aren't all dead....

Plutonium can be toxic, but you have to work hard to make it so. I am sure you remember Bernard Cohen's offer to eat as much plutonium as Ralph Nader would eat caffeine in the 1980s? Your guess at Plutonium's LD-50 is odd, and suggests that you don't really appreciate what a half-life is. Here is a reference giving a more complete analysis of plutonium toxicity... http://russp.org/BLC-3.html which you may find of interest.

Why don't you worry about the provably far greater danger of air pollution due to the burning refineries and gas storage plants? Or the far greater emissions of radioactive particles by the worlds coal power stations? Or, indeed, Brazil nuts?...
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