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[Bryan Young]

Heaven forfend! I try to keep well clear of anything to do with the H & S brigade. A bunch of bigotted idiots who just keep dreaming up ways to keep their "jobs". BY.

[ben hall]

well if the guys in charge care about there money wich they do there law just lost them another person worth of taxes and vat

[triumphjon]

health and safety has gone completly beyond sensible ! a couple of years ago when i required a new hi vis coat i visited a local safety shop . the assistant when asking my purpose for the coat then informed me that if working at more than 6" from the ground i needed to wear a fall arrestor , when i asked him what i was to attach it to he was stumped , as both the highest and lowest point on my vehicle are the same !  lets all go back to common sense ?

[omra85]

I attended a ten day (one day per week) H & S course about 30 years ago, courtesy of the TUC as I was a 'workplace representative' (shop steward in old money). (Now you know what happened to your Union subs... )
There were 10 people on the course, including 2 from Chatham Dockyard, two from Fleet Street (where they were still carrying molton lead round in open buckets) and 2 from a large aggregate company (who managed to kill a person the previous year!  The dockyard guys were involved with submarine installation using some dubious form of adhesive to stick insulation to the walls/ceiling of the sub.  The adhesive ran down their arms producing dermatitis and a severe rash.  Oh yes - the insulation was asbestos!  (The dockyard management had thoughtfully provided an extractor fan when some of the workforce fell unconcious).
The stories these guys told was a real eye-opener as to why H & S was (and is) important.  They risked DEATH or SERIOUS injury every day in the normal course of their work.  It made me think that ther Victorian chimney sweep boys were not so badly off after all!
During the 10 weeks, we studied legislation, inspections, negotiations and representation - in fact everything to do with H & S at that time.
At the end of the course, we were told that, although there was no exam or any qualification, we were in fact, better qualified than many of the "professional" H & S consultants, who had actually only been on a four day course.  According to the Young report, this appears to still be the case!!

So you may well understand my frustration when I hear of the ridiculous interpretations of the "Euro" additions to the Act and the obvious money grabbing enticements of the legal profession which has resulted in the current "sue for anything" state of affairs.

There is a place for considered judgement of H & S in the workplace, but it must be done bearing in the mind, NOT the wishes of the self interested legal jackdaws, but the safety and well-being of the employee.

Arrrgh - time for a spell in the workshop (with suitably displayed Factories Act 1961)

Danny

[dodgy geezer]

The big problem is not that some of the H&S requirements are stupid (though some of them definitely are!) It lies deeper than that.

The problem is that we have moved from taking responsibility for our actions to a state where we expect some authoritative body to take that responsibility for us. So now there is a huge growth industry in setting standards and providing statutory advice for all kinds of activity, and another comparable industry of consultants who interpret this compulsory advice on behalf of the few people remaining who are trying to earn money. By now all of the sensible advice has been given , but to stay in employment the advisors need to think up more and ever more detailed additions...

Someone should point out that the only wealth this country has comes from the money earners, and if too many people try to make a living of providing compulsory advice to them then our economy will simply collapse...

[RaaArtyGunner]

There was a time long long ago in land far far away called OZ that when an industrial accident occurred it was investigated by a safety officer who figured out how it happened and how to prevent the same accident happening again using commonsense and all was well in OZ.

But as time moved on the safety officer was overthrown by the forces of darkness and taken over by the 'Health and Safety officer' who was now empowered to prevent all accidents no matter where and before they happened using any and all means available.

Alas commonsense died that day and a pall now hangs over the once happy land of OZ, which had spread throught the world.
 

[Mr Andy]

Here on Anglesey the water training School Indefetigable former HMS, is busy with boats from Liverpool and the Cheshire Brigades, keeping their skill's fresh, if this part of the country do it, I have no doubt that other Brigades do the same training. H&S killed this country years ago, introduced for all the best reason's, then handed to people who now see it as job's for the boy's, and how many more lives will be lost due to a lack of common sense?

Andy.

[RaaArtyGunner]

You might say that everyone has now been caught up in the 'big picture' phrase where a couple of casualties/deaths is acceptable so long as the majority survive its called risk assessment.
Simply put Example, far better to let one die than to risk 4 trying to save one, you don't even consider that the 4 might succeed, that is not part of the risk assessment which is worst case result, that is all dead so no go, so you don't allow the 4 to try.
Also commonsense plays no part in H&S.

On the bright side there  are still individuals out there who can still apply commonsense so there is hope.

[essex2visuvesi]

You might say that everyone has now been caught up in the 'big picture' phrase where a couple of casualties/deaths is acceptable so long as the majority survive its called risk assessment.
Simply put Example, far better to let one die than to risk 4 trying to save one, you don't even consider that the 4 might succeed, that is not part of the risk assessment which is worst case result, that is all dead so no go, so you don't allow the 4 to try.
Also commonsense plays no part in H&S.

On the bright side there  are still individuals out there who can still apply commonsense so there is hope.

I guess the RNLI will be selling up soon then?

[pugwash]

An interesting question - fire, police and Paramedic supervisory officers can be prosecuted by H and S for unneccessararily
hazarding there staff but what about the RNLI.  I assume because it is a voluntary organisation the lifeboat cox'n
could not be prosecuted on any judgement calls he makes out at sea - Probably the same with the mountain rescue team leaders
but is that being too simplistic.
Comments??

Geoff

[kiwi]

Hi All,
On a more positive note, found this today, so maybe there is hope that the next generation has some sense, and can still act when needed.
And yes we do have the PC squad here in NZ, but not yet to the extent in other countries.

The Fire Service is considering rewarding two Rotorua teenagers for bravery after they rescued a young boy from a fierce house fire which claimed a woman's life early this morning.

The teenage boys were vomiting from smoke inhalation outside the burning house on Clayton Rd, Rotorua, when fire officers arrived about midnight.

Central North Island Area Commander Graham Fuller said the boys, who were neighbours, had bravely entered the burning house, aware that there were people inside, and rescued a young boy.

Brave lads, who did the right thing, even though they are taught at school, to not enter a burning building, but how to escape the right way, along the floor, so they simply did it together
well done to these two
cheers
kiwi

[Dreadstar]

Last year whilst testing out my Type 24 frigate,I saw a young toddler fall into the pond on the far side. I didn't wait to see if the parents were going to do anything,I just sprinted the length of the pond in order to reach the child. Another member of the public saw me rushing round and he did the same. Knowing that the pond is only two & a half feet deep,we both jumped in and grabbed the child,the father was hysterically frozen to the spot,not knowing what to do.Thankfully,the child was just wet and upset,but if I hadn't acted,things could have been much worse. Now under current H&S regs,what would the response have been?

[Yarpie]

The two instances above highlight one thing:

FIRST AID.

This has been the life saver over the years.

On the battlefield, on the domestic front, on the recreational front as well, and in a host of other situations.

Lives have been saved by people's unselfish reactions.

And not by reflecting on recriminations brought about by text, plain simple TEXT.

Well done to the two two New Zealander teenagers for their quick response (and to you Dreadstar), this is what humanity is all about.

[Bee]

Police service is still attracting the finest brains in the country....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/05/salvagers-arrested-scrap-recycling

[pugwash]

They have obviously nothing better to do in Gloucestershire - it's not exactly the crime capitol of the southwest
That Supt. must be a right plonker if he thinks that was a measured response to the "crime"

Geoff

[essex2visuvesi]

It depends how you look at it, at the end of the day theft is theft. Be it 47pence pounds on million pounds

But it does seem an awful waste of resources

++Makes a note to return the pen he took from work this morning++

[dodgy geezer]

But it does seem an awful waste of resources...

It makes a lot more sense if you consider that Gloucestershire police might lose their helicopter in the cuts unless they can demonstrate a high number of 'crimes cleared up' by its use.....