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[Bryan Young]

Although I haven't as yet finished the re-rigging of the trawl warps...partly because of my ignorance but mainly because I'm getting really frustrated with trying to insert bits of stuff into holes that seem to have no intention of having anything inserted into them.
So I've switched my attention to the main superstructure. Although basically intact, the photo more or less shows what needs to be done. It just goes to show what damage can be done to a model when it's just chucked willy-nilly into the back of a van.
The taff-rail around the wheelhouse is perhaps the most evident. But many of the fittings on the 3 small derricks have "disappeared", and the mainmast rigging has been badly bent out of shape. Looks easily fixable on the photo, but it isn't.
I really will have to learn how to control my anger and just plod along until it gets to look like it used to do. Although I must admit to a daily dose of dejection every time I approach the poor old thing.

[kiwi]

Hi Bryan,
Keep up the good work, as this restoration provides a valuable insite into how things are done right. I've learned so much from your way of doing things, and the various input from trawlermen as to rigging etc most interesting.
Very frustrating having to fix things that even a little bit of care could have prevented, but then yobbos that steal have no respect of anything, and certainly have no appreciation for the skills, time and effort which goes into creating such a work of art. Anyone can destroy, however very few have the skills to create such beautiful things.
Much appreciate your efforts
Thank you
kiwi

[Bryan Young]

First of all, a "thank you" to "kiwi".
Then comes a little bit of a moan about the size of the photos (in kb's) allowed. Getting detail down from over 2mb to that allowed degrades photos too much. Not so long ago the maximum allowed was well over 200kb, with a corresponding increase in clarity.
    But this is really just an update on the (slow) progress so far.
With more respect than I can put into words and to prevent blushing, I sincerely thank Davie Tait and Barry M for their explanations and help. However. Once I started following Davies advice and photos I quickly realised that much of the detail work he so eloquently described was just going to so hidden amidst the general clutter that much of it was going to be well hidden. So (probably to much disgust) I've "simplified" it down to basics. Not a good solution, but so be it.
       The 2 posted photos show (or are supposed to show) the rolled up net laid along the stbd bulwark with the various floats, bottom weights and the obscure "Dan-Lenos" attached to "my" hair net. When the net is rolled up and given a couple of coats of matt lacquer it's really difficult to ascertain its size and humble origins. Lengthwise it's probably too short, but it serves its purpose. The trawl warps are also there, but the reduction in size of the photo may make them hard to pick out.
      If you are anything like me you may find it difficult to remember how you wired the thing up in the original build. So I now stick a wiring diagram somewhere handy (the white patch in the 2nd photo)...this helps mute the mocking laughter from fellow club members when they see you scratching your head prior to launch!

Belatedly, I've just realised that I've made precious little mention of the "manufacture" of some of the smaller fittings. I must address that soon.

[Bryan Young]

Oops! Missed out the first one! Sorry.

[DavieTait]

Bryan at the scale of this boat most of the gear will be "hidden" so its not that important to have it absolutely right ( I'm not a "rivet" counter lol ). Your model is far more accurate than a lot of scratch built side trawler models and the fact that you were more than happy to ask about the rigging to get it right means a lot to an ex-trawlerman.

Great model

[Bryan Young]

Well, what can I say to that. All I can do, Davie is to say "thank you" and electronically shake your hand. Bryan.

[bosun]

Hy Brian.
I dont post much on this site anymore, much of what passes as model boating today is of no interest to me., and it seems that certain people have an answer to any and every question asked, so I find there isnt much point. However I will say that I am really enjoying this rebuild, maybe the subject matter is more to my taste, but it is also the fact that with every post, I, like yourself, have learned a lot from the other guy,s comments, and of course from the build itself. Just like to say nice job.
Bosun

[pugwash]

Hi Bryan, still catching up with some of the more interesting threads after my hols,
what you have done looks really good and well up to your usual standard, you might not
be pleased with having to re-do it but you should be very pleased with what you have done

Geoff

[Bryan Young]

One bit of  navigational equipment that’s unique to a fishing trawler is the “Tri-Coloured” lantern on the foremast. There should be 3 nav.lights on this mast. Two of them used only when fishing. Although in “real life” many trawler skippers just blithely ignored these rules.
I’ll precis the rules in a minute….at least, the rules that applied until the 1970s or later. Perhaps they’ve changed since I stopped ploughing furrows across the worlds oceans.
When not engaged in trawling (Note:- this only applies to trawlers and not drifters etc.) they shall show only the navigation lights for a normal powered vessel of her size. That is:- a sternlight, 2 sidelights and a normal light on the foremast…if the trawler is 150ft long or more she should also have a normal nav light on the mainmast. However, when trawling the only “normal” nav light to be shown is the sternlight. As a reminder, the sternlight is (theoretically!) only visible from right aft to two points (22.5*) aft of the beam. The standard mast lights are visible from right ahead to 2 points aft of the beam. Similarly for the sidelights except (of course) they are only visible on one side of the vessel.
      This all changes on a trawler. Where, on a “normal” ship the foremast light is situated the “Tri-Coloured” light is placed. The “normal” light is placed elsewhere lower down the mast. This tricoloured thingy is laid out differently to the normal lights. The white light part of it is only visible from right ahead to 2 points on either side of the bow. (22.5* each side of right ahead). The red and green segments are visible from 2 points off the bow to 2 points aft of the beam. So you can (hopefully) visualise that the coloured segments are visible over a much narrower arc than a normal sidelight, as is the white segment.
    Not less than 6ft or more than 12 feet below the tri-coloured light is another light, this one showing an “all-round” white light. These 2 lights are (or were) physically quite large things. Probably about 2, perhaps 3 ft tall and at least a foot in diameter.
The “normal” mast light is fitted anywhere below the all-round light. OK, not “anywhere”, but high enough to be visible.
I’ve mentioned this arrangement as many in the modelling world seem to get it wrong. Even many of the kit builds I’ve seen don’t show the differences, and (mainly due to an understandable lack of knowledge) as so many modellers like lighting up their models like a Xmas tree, it isn’t uncommon to see a model trawler showing both normal lights and the fishing lights at the same time.
    As far as making the tri-coloured lantern is concerned. Well, being a bit of a clever clogs I tried (reasonably successfully) to make my own. But I wouldn’t do it again. It’s much easier and quicker to buy a couple of  oversized (scalewise) units from a model shop and paint in the coloured segments. The “all-round” white light is easily catered for  by using a unit meant as an anchor light. The “normal” (lower) light should be at the correct scale for the model.
I hope that little effort helps with clearing up a rather common (if understandable) error. BY.

[Bryan Young]

Another odd bit of stuff is the aerial for the RDF system. Normally simply referred to as the “DF”. This system of taking bearings by radio from a known and fixed location has been around since Noah was a lad. But extensively used during WW2.
   The earliest systems had a rotatable “square” aerial as shown in the first photo. It was rotated by a handwheel in the compartment below the aerial. In the early days this didn’t give an actual bearing from a ship, although it would have done from a fixed shore station. Instead it would give a number of degrees from the ships heading at the time. Time consuming as ships then used the magnetic compass which was riddled with constantly changing errors due to the ships own magnetism and the magnetic poles “variation” depending where on the planet you happened to be at the time.
Of course, none of this matters two hoots to a model maker…but I just thought that it might be nice to at least have an inkling how this thing worked.
When the aerial (tuned to the transmitting station) was rotated the signal would go from a maximum strength to a minimum. Either strength could be used, but the human ear hears differences in levels of silences rather than volume. So the “bearing” would be at the point of most silence. Find another transmitting station and do it all again and you have a rough (very rough) cross “fix”. As this system (using “Long Wave”) can transmit over huge distances the earths curvature has to be taken into account….called “half-convergency”….no need to go into that here. But that’s the principle of it.
The next stage of its development was the introduction of the Double Loop aerial that was still fitted to ships in the days of the Decca Navigator (a short range system) and the American “Loran” and “Omega” systems (long range). But even now in the days of GPS it’s still fitted…not because of the systems accuracy, more because of its reliability. Also the modern receiver is linked to a gyro compass so the result is more of a bearing than an angle from the ships head.
    The double loop aerial is fixed, but by wiggling the compass knob on the receiver the max and min signal strength is basically the same as in the days of yore.
Now  to  the modelling aspect of all this gubbins.
I guess we’re looking at 2 “rings” of around 3ft in diameter, with each ring material about 2 inches in diameter. For most of my life I’d always sort of  assumed that what appeared to be the larger diameter ring was the fore and aft one. But since I began taking a modelling interest in these mundane things I now think that they are the same size, so it really doesn’t matter a  toss which one is upper or lower. The lower ends go into a “box”…all fitted to a pedestal. All the ones I’ve seen also had a central (vertical) rod fitted. I used to think that this was part of the aerial, now I think it was just a “stiffener”. But I think it should be fitted.
And now it’s confession time. It was only when I thought about writing this bit of useless information that I realised that I’d forgotten to even fit the thing on to “Norseman”…and nobody noticed! That must be rectified forthwith. Rats! BY.

[Netleyned]

Some had a vertical Sense aerial which may be the vertical element
The  magic system was a Bellini Tosi loop arrangement which meant you could
'Wiggle the Knobs' instead of rotating the aerial.

Ned

[Bryan Young]

Thanks Ned, I was hoping that someone would put me straight...even though I didn't understand a word of it. Bryan.

[Bryan Young]

Quiet reflection and a bit of cogitation often throws up answers to puzzling questions....but that mental process can equally well work the opposite way.
     I've just replaced the "standard" compass on "Bayflower" and got to think about it. When I first built the model (and her replacement) I just went blindly ahead, made and fitted the thing. Not a moment spent thinking about the "why" of it. This time around, the "why" question has wormed its way into bit of my brain that never lets a good question answer itself.
     As this is about the elevated compass I'd rather you ignored the replacement and unfinished wooden rail around the wheelhouse.
     For the life of me I just can't imagine any sane trawlerman climbing up the outside ladder to look at the thing in the teeth of an arctic gale. Not that I ever for one moment ever considered these trawlermen "sane" in the first place. But perhaps that's a clue in the first place? Weather and Latitudes. But then I realised (remembered, actually) that the nearer you get to the poles (the geographical sort) the "magnetic flux" becomes almost vertical, so rendering a magnetic compass useless for navigational purposes.
     And therein lies my question of "Why".
There are many "brain-boxes" on this forum so I hope at least one of you can answer (in an understandable sequence of words). BY.

[Bryan Young]

While waiting for some epoxy to set my eye was drawn to those odd looking sheaves fastened to the superstructure casing. I guess the must have some important purpose that I've forgotten. Possibly to drag the trawl net "cod end" back towards the after gallows? Maybe not.
Anyway, I just wondered if you'd like to indulge in a bit of Origami?
If these sheaves had been set vertically then the job would have been quite simple, but they are at a very obvious angle..so some thought was required. Didn't make it any easier as they also (partially, at least) fit on the rounded part of the casing. Hence the slightly elongated upper mounting plate. It also seemed logical to at least attempt to make the entire mounting in one piece. A bit of careful drawing and equally careful bending of the thin aluminium (litho plate) produced what you see here. I should think that I made this model before Caldercraft made theirs, but mine look a bit different to the ones supplied with the varios kits...but I suppose they came in different patterns anyway.

[DavieTait]

They're used to haul the bobbins alongside Bryan and have to angled out to towards the rail. There is a rope tied to the each end of the wings which runs through a rope eye on the top of the net and down onto the bobbins which lets the gear be hauled up to the boat. The aft end is attached to the gallows using a slip and for bobbins are hauled aboard using the gilson ( same one that take the cod end aboard ) and are laid alongside the rail. We had a double sheave one on the casin next to the winch and a single one aft towards the aft gallows but a trawler the size of the Bayflower would have had another single further aft as well ( the sheaves were used for hauling the messenger wire up , the messenger was a large hook attached to a long piece of trawl wire it was passed over the aft wire and taken forrard to be hooked onto the forrard trawl wire - making sure it was facing away from the rail - and it was slid down the warp and hauled up aft so the warps could be put into the trawl block )

[DavieTait]

found another clearer photo taken on the David Wood A142 showing the sheaves Bryan

[Bryan Young]

Dear Heavens! It gets worse! It may all have been "low-tech" stuff, but there's an awful lot of thought and "know-how" in these scruffy (and important) vessels. Not much room for the crew to move around in either.
All this "learning" about old "sidewinders" is more difficult than I thought it would be.
Davie, when youngsters "went to sea" on a trawler of this vintage, knowing nothing except which side of the boat to be sick over, did they ever get any "book learning" or was it all from grand-dads knee (so to speak)?
It pains me to say it, but I'm beginning to develop a lot of respect for these guys. I still don't appreciate them giving heart attacks to the drivers of other non-fishing vessels though.
Perhaps, in modelling terms, I should have stuck to what I know (knew) best. But where's the "fun" in that?
Thanks for your reply.....now all I have to do is to don me ganzie and puzzle out what you said! Cheers. Bryan.

[Netleyned]

I can only surmise that was the ships 'Standard' compass put as far away from all the iron in the hull and trawl rigs to get the least deviation and used occasionally as a
reference for the other compasses usually in the wheelhouse and the Skippers cabin. As you say Bryan they would not have been much good with the amount of
declination in those latitudes North of the Arctic Circle. The compass card would have been standing on end!

Ned

[DavieTait]

The company boats all put young lads to the local "trawler school" where they were taught about the gear , how to splice rope , mend the nets , etc. The skipper owned boats were different all the young lads grew up around the boats and normally would have been taught about mending nets , etc by their Grandfather and on summer holiday trips from school.

I had a needle in my hand being taught how to mend nets by the age of 4 , been taught how to splice ropes and wires by the time I was 7 and had been going to sea on my families boat by 7 as well for my summer holidays. By the time I was 12 the only thing I hadn't done was work the winch during fishing ( worked it a lot in harbour changing wires , etc though , it would have been too dangerous to let someone as young as 12 work the winch ) but I had been up in the wheelhouse with my Uncle and Father being taught how to handle the boat and take a watch.

There is a fishermans training course run in various colleges around the country now Bryan , my local college ( Banff and Buchan Technical College ) runs a training course , there's one up in the Shetlands at Scalloway College and at least one or two in England as far as I know.

There is an awful lot more to learn now compared to when I was a kid. The nets are huge compared to 40 years ago , the boats all work over the stern using powerful winches and net drums , the fish goes into a reception hopper and there sometimes is a hydraulic driven belt that takes the fish out of the hopper so the crew can sort the catch. There is a lot to learn about hydraulics now compared to 40 years ago.

The wheelhouse electronics are like the starship enterprise compared to even 25 years ago as well. When I started we had 1 Radar , a paper sounder , a lupe sounder ( looked like an oscilloscope where you could see the fish beneath the boat ) , 1 mk21 Decca Plotter with the electrically driver paper chart plotter , 2 Sailor RT144 VHF's and a single Sailor SSB set , 1 magnetic compass and an air fog horn. Nowadays there are 2 Radars ( 1 of which has to be an ARPA type ) , 4 or 5 VHF's , an SSB set , 2 colour flat screen GPS Navigation plotters , 2 colour flat screen fish finder sounders , some boats have a type of plotter/sounder that works in 3D ( OLEX ) so you can see pretty accurately where your net is on the sea floor , mobile phone , sat phone , internet ( off the sat phone ) , SKY tv , CCTV cameras , the controls for the winches , bow thruster , the displays for the net sensors. It really is hugely different now compared to 25 years ago let alone what they had 60 years ago

[Bryan Young]

I can only surmise that was the ships 'Standard' compass put as far away from all the iron in the hull and trawl rigs to get the least deviation and used occasionally as a
reference for the other compasses usually in the wheelhouse and the Skippers cabin. As you say Bryan they would not have been much good with the amount of
declination in those latitudes North of the Arctic Circle. The compass card would have been standing on end!

Ned

Ned, thanks for the reply. Not that it answers the question. (At least you tried!). "Declination" is nowt to do with the earths magnetic field. That's "variation". But I agree with you that theoreticaly the compass card would be approaching the vertical. All other ships have the "standard" compass easily accessible. I also note that these elevated compasses are not in a binnacle containing corrector magnets. So perhaps it was all just a cost saving exercise? But I'd love to know the real reason. Bryan.

[Bryan Young]

Davie:- You really ought to write a book on this! Or, if you are anything like me, you need some sort of stimulus to set you off. You have a breadth and depth of knowledge about your section of the maritime life that (in a way) complements mine. I don't for one moment think that you are a shy and retiring sort of guy.......so why not consider doing a "fishing" version of my "Life At Sea" saga that I ended last year.
    Having said that, I'd be equally interested to read about the life experiences of those who served (sailed) in Passenger Liners, Container ships, Dredgers or any other type of ship that comes to mind. Regards. Bryan.

[kiwi]

Hi Davie & Bryan,
I'll second everything Bryan has said in his post.
Short anicdotal, posts, similar to Bryan's "Life at Sea" would be more than welcome, by most on here.
I have a great admiration for all who sailed on any boat or ship at sea.
I was brought up messing about in boats when a boy, but only small pleasure craft and the like. Have met quite a few "old Salts" while researching the old craft of NZ, and am astounded at the conditions they had to work and live under, whether on the rivers and lakes, fishing inshore and off, the coastal or deep sea, they all have my deepest respect.
Looking forward to many more seamen sharing their lives experiences on Mayhem
cheers
kiwi

[Bryan Young]

The rebuild of this ruddy trawler is taking longer than I thought it would. I took it down to the pond last Sunday just to compare it with her newer sister and to check on what else I need to do. All the back-end rigging (that I knew about) needs renewing/replacing (including the 3 derricks). Apart from that, that's about it.
Actually, I could have put it on the water as all the electrics etc have been refitted. But to my eternal shame (must be an age thing) I couldn't remember which wires went where. So some pitying advice was forthcoming. But I'm getting used to feeling somewhat retarded and have no shame left in me.
In the photo, the one I've spent so long rebuilding is in the foreground. I really want to see the pair of them together on the water..once will do. Then the "Bayflower" will be put up for sale (I have no need for two trawlers).

[BarryM]

All gone very quiet in here. Perhaps if those who have learned - and are learning - from this thread were to ask for more, we might persuade Bryan to continue it. I fear he has disappeared up his Ipad.

Barry M

[Bryan Young]

Having received a couple of e-mails regarding my "silence" on this rebuild, I thought I should at least come up with some sort of response. "Bayflower" has not been languishing, unloved and forgotten. That would all be a bit difficult as I have to squeeze past it every day to get Mrs.Y's gardening tools for her (and replace them). No, it's all been a culmination of circumstances.
Partly because of doing something I don't really want to do.....but am loathe to make a "bodge-up job of it. So a frame of mind comes into it.
I have, however, replaced and re-positioned all the running gear and electrics, so the model is basically ready to run. The "back-end" is my stumbling block. Nothing all that awkward...if only I could really see what I'm doing! An old 10 minute job now takes closer to an hour. By then the "good eye" is knackered, and I get rattled, annoyed and prone to errors. Not a good trait for a scratch modeller.
    For a while now I've been uncomfortable with the condition of my 2nd garage...where a lot of "stuff" is stowed. But stripping it all out would leave me with nowhere to put "the "stuff" while "re-furbishing" no.2 garage. Recently, one of my neighbours had her garage become vacant and has loaned it to me (free of charge) for as long as it all takes. Now things are looking a bit more "tickety-boo" I can get back to a bit of basics. Apart from extricating my nether regions from my iPad as suggested by some person of Caledonian extraction. Please bear with me. Regards to all. BY.