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Author Topic: Caldercraft Cumbrae  (Read 2715 times)

SimonCornes

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Caldercraft Cumbrae
« on: January 10, 2022, 11:14:20 am »

I've just acquired one of these as a 'bare' boat - completed model but no radio gear or motor fitted. Can anyone suggest a good motor/prop combination please?
Thanks
Simon
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2022, 12:17:12 pm »

Hi Simon,

Mine runs well using a low drain 540 type motor with a 2:1 belt drive reduction to a 40mm brass 3 bladed prop. Battery is a 6v SLA. It is an old installation however.

You could use the same motor with direct drive to a 35mm prop and a 7.2v or 8.4v NiMh pack though.

https://www.componentshop.co.uk/540-standard-dc-motor.html

https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/7-2v-5000mah-nimh-battery/

For radio several people have recommended the Planet TS2 which has steering and throttle plus two auxiliary channels.

https://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28578

Colin



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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2022, 03:13:40 pm »

Thank you Colin - not seen a 27MHz 'M' series Rx for ages!!


I have a Spektrum T5 and receiver available and - what I think is - an Mtronics electronic speed controller (acquired second hand with no label!) I have a 5 pole and a 3 pole 540 sized motor but I was thinking it needed something a bit bigger? Looking at photos of the real thing it looks like it had a fairly useful top speed - I'm thinking maybe 15 knots or so for estuarial work putting pilots onto cargo ships. I also have a 12v 3ah SLA but I'm not sure what this boat should weigh when its down to its marks? 35mm prop, is that the scale size? I'm assuming 40mm is more like it if thats what you're using with a geared drive?
Thanks again


Simon
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2022, 04:12:59 pm »

Simon,

The original motor was a Monoperm Super and a smaller prop! It was adequate but no more. The original vessel was completed in 1937 and had a speed of just 11.5knots. Remember, back then a lot of cargo ships could make only 8 knots or so.

Many of my models have belt drive as it is quiet, easy to fit and the gearing down reduces power consumption considerably. My battery is a 6v 7AH SLA. It is a relatively heavy boat but quite fine lined so slips through the water easily. The kit is actually wider than than true scale by half an inch or so, presumably to help stability.

I'd think your 5 pole 540 would do fine but would run more efficiently with a 40mm prop if it were geared down like mine.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2022, 05:36:43 pm »

Thanks Colin - not as fast as I thought but the photos Iím looking at still show a fair bow wave but, as you say, quite a fine entry. Do you make your belt system or is it available commercially?
Simon
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2022, 06:42:45 pm »

Simon

I use commercial pulleys and 'O' rings. Usually a single belt is enough but you can double up by sticking two pulleys together back to back. If you have a 4mm shaft then Technobots have a good range of brass hub pulleys.

https://www.technobotsonline.com/pulleys-and-belts.html

The motor is more of a problem as the shaft is 3.175mm in diameter and pulleys are not easy to find, even 3mm ones that can be reamed out to fit. However Steve at ModelBoatBits would almost certainly be happy to make you something suitable.

https://www.modelboatbits.com/

Of course direct drive coupling inserts are much easier to come by in the necessary sizes. If you go down this route my gut feeling is that a 35mm prop would be best but perhaps others can offer better advice.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2022, 07:29:46 pm »

Thank you Colin, thatís a tremendous amount of useful information!
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2022, 12:28:43 am »

Even though I have the instructions and a copy of Colin B's original magazine article I wonder if anyone might have a scan of the plan? I know that its not to scale but I have an idea that the chap who originally built my boat managed to not build it fully in accordance with the plan. I'm hoping that it won't take much to put it right but Caldercraft knew what they were doing when they designed the kit so I'd like it to be 'right'! Even the boarding gratings are in the wrong position if they are supposed to hinge down to rest on top of the bulwark rail?
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roycv

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2022, 01:55:31 am »

HMMMM! Kits are not always definitive models.Witness the Talacre kit with the bridge facing the wrong way. 

It is not easy to make it right I am finding as well.
Roy
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Tafelspitz

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2022, 05:51:26 am »

Caldercraft knew what they were doing when they designed the kit


Having built the Imara by that same company, I wouldn't necessarily bet any money on that  :}
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2022, 09:45:52 am »

Okay, so it seems that the plan cannot be relied upon for accuracy! I also have photographs of the real thing to refer to but I donít know if the chap who built the boat did it properly. For example the gooseneck for the book attached to the main mast is rotated 90 degrees to the starboard side. Is that right? I would think not but maybe the plan would confirm that it was right? Also the skylight over the engine room seems to be rotated 90 degrees so that the glazing is pointing fore and aft, not from side to side!! Basic stuff really but it would be nice to know what is correct so that I can sort it out if necessary!!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2022, 11:05:24 am »

Simon,

This plan by P N Thomas may have been the drawing that the Caldercraft kit was based on. I have it myself and it is likely to be pretty accurate. I mentioned it in my review.

https://www.sarikhobbies.com/product/cumbrae-mm1235/

Caldercraft increased the beam of their kit by an inch or so, presumably for stability reasons. It isn't really noticeable visually but must have had an effect on the relative placing of fittings etc., notably the boarding gratings.

Very few kits of this type are totally accurate as the manufacturer has to compromise for practical and commercial reasons so you can only treat them as being near scale or semi scale depending on the extent of the compromise. There are others which actually bear little resemblance to the original vessel. I have one kit where the scale at one end is different to that at the other.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2022, 01:38:15 pm »

Thank you Colin. Having moved from the Imara renovation to Cumbrae I can certainly see how Caldercraft made use of existing castings. Fair enough and not to the detriment of the overall model but Iíve been a scale modeller all my life so I like to get it right - or almost right ! - if I can. Thanks again for the link Colin, Iím about to read your review and the instructions again and to see what I can pick up from those!
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2022, 02:55:28 pm »

A quick query, the foremast has 3 lights - 2 360 degree and 1 120 degree. The 120 is the nav light. My questions are :-
Where did the nav light go? Mast head or between the other 2?
Second, what is the purpose of the 2 360 lights? If it was a tug then Iíd know but itís a pilot boat! I assume all have white lenses?
Many thanks

Simon
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2022, 03:52:43 pm »

See:

https://www.ecolregs.com/index.php?Itemid=505&id=92:a-vessel-engaged-on-pilotage-duty-underway-lights&lang=en&option=com_k2&view=item

The top 120 degree white light would probably be used as a steaming light when not on pilot duty.

On pilotage duty the all rounders are white over red (the Pilot's red face under his white cap!)

The all round white on its own would serve as an anchor light.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2022, 08:10:48 pm »

Hi Colin
Yes, just got discovered the white over red (clowns hat over nose) so I guess the third light must be the white steaming light and therefore the lowest of the three! Thatís counter intuitive as youíd expect it to be the top light but there you are! It also shows that it was something else the guy who originally built it got wrong but then it doesnít say anything in the instructions either!!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2022, 08:30:21 pm »

Not sure you've got that right Simon. The two lower lights are white over red and the white one doubles as a pilotage and steaming light when the vessel is engaged in pilotage. (pilotage lights are 360 degrees). The topmost light would be a steaming light when the ship is not engaged in pilotage as the lower two would be off and there is a separate stern light which, together with the sidelights, are the standard steaming lights.

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2022, 08:58:46 pm »

Hi Colin
I googled 'mast lights for pilot boats' and this shows a pure white 360 light over a pure red 360 light and then, below that, a white steaming light. Now I assume that these are the latest regulations so I don't know if the 1930's regulations were two combined white over red 360 lights?  I must admit that the steaming light position - below the two 'pilot' lights - is counterintuitive to me! In addition, with the kit, the three lights are disposed one above the cross spar and two below so I would logically expect the mast head/steaming light to be the one above the cross spar but the official diagram suggests otherwise - but quite easily done with a modern pilot boat mast?


https://www.getlostpowerboattraining.com/vessel-lights-a-complete-guide/

To be honest Colin, I've read Rule 29 so I see what you say but the diagram in the link above does show a third, white light, below and forward of the red. I am therefore confused and this is compounded by the 3 mast light positions in both the kit and the real vessel!



Simon
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2022, 09:20:41 pm »

Ah - you're saying the top 120 white light would be the steaming light when not on pilot duty - got it! So the pair of 360 lights would both be below the 'steaming' light !!
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2022, 09:36:00 pm »

Yes, it does seem a bit confusing. I was using this link.

https://www.ecolregs.com/index.php?Itemid=505&id=92:a-vessel-engaged-on-pilotage-duty-underway-lights&lang=en&option=com_k2&view=item

You can view from various angles and the lower white light in this example is the stern light.

Might be useful to have some input from our professional mariners, it is a whiles since I passed my RYA exams!

Colin
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2022, 10:04:48 pm »

Thanks Colin
I have it now !! It all makes sense and you were spot on. As I thought the chap who built the model got it all wrong including the lights not being in the right position on the mast so now I can make sense of it all! Im surprised itís not covered off in the instructions but then Frank may not have known!
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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2022, 10:24:55 am »

The Steaming light is a Nav light so is lit
as well as the port and stbd and stern lights.
When we were surveying we had 360 Red over White over Red,
[size=78%]and one time surveying[/size]
the Approaches to Liverpool, we were often
mistaken for the Liverpool Pilot at night.
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2022, 12:18:26 pm »

Thanks Ned - all grist to the mill!

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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2022, 06:11:01 pm »

Guys,
I'm back to the pilot lights again! After a few months of inactivity I'm ready to fit the mast lights and I'm wondering why I have 3! The rules say that the pilot lights should be as close to the mast head as possible and shine through 360 degrees so thats white over red for the pair. So that leaves the third light which is 120 degrees and to be used at night when the pilot boat is not on duty but if the pilot lights are supposed to be as high up the mast as possible then, as I have 3 lights, is the steaming light below the two pilot lights? 
Help!!!!
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SimonCornes

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Re: Caldercraft Cumbrae
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2022, 02:04:53 pm »

I can answer my latest question! I spoke to Jotika today and they looked at the Caldercraft plan and that shows the steaming light between the lower 360 red and the upper 360 white.
So that means I will change my wiring slightly so that I can turn on the two 360 pilot lights or the single 120 white steaming light as the pilot lights are only on when actually on duty . The rest of the nav lights will be on a third switch. Lots of switches but it follows the KISS principal !!
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