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Author Topic: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....  (Read 115514 times)

HS93 (RIP)

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wartsilaone

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #76 on: January 18, 2012, 07:11:22 PM »

I've tried DS before but never got to grips with it. Seeing that there is a tutorial on here I thought I'd download it again and give it another try. The only thing is, the site is closed for maintenance so I'll have to wait.

Ali.
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cos918

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #77 on: January 18, 2012, 09:50:28 PM »

Hi Ralph
I have had a look at the post on Tor Britainnia ,very impressive. I am working my way through all the 5 pages on the thread you have done on the German forum via Google translator. I have a question is there much on model ferries on the diffrent German forums?

John
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deadwood

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #78 on: January 18, 2012, 10:17:46 PM »

Hi Ralph

That was an interesting post and link. I admit I would like to be able to produce simple plans and frames etc.
Is DS the sort of program a person with no experience of drafting could learn? I assume you had relevant
skills before you got DS.

Regards Dave
Hi Dave,

sure one can learn handling DELFTship (DS).
Maybe even easier if you haven't had much exposure to lines drawing in naval architecture.
I have to admit that I have some experience in manually drafting hull lines with the naval architect's tool set of special drawing instruments like e.g. ship curves, splines and ducks, planimeter, drawing compass and ink pens.
But this was many years ago.
I can remember that it took almost a whole day of drawing just the grid for the section planes and made your back ache.
This had to be done with utmost care and precision as the whole lines plan relied on an accurate grid.
I think that DS maybe is easier to fathom if you don't have this background because you are not mentally bound to working on the respective spline curves of body sections, waterlines and buttocks which makes it getting used to the hull model that DS employs in the beginning.
In DS you manipulate a 3-dimensional set of control points, edges and surfaces which form and define the hull by moving them and inserting new ones or collapsing them where appropriate with the mouse or other pointing device.
Though you can lay control splines at any section of the hull model that is not quite the way the traditional naval architect is used to proceed.
I thus found it an enormous help in DS if you often change the display window to the 3-dimensional perspective view of the so far generated hull, especially if you marked certain control points and edges by clicking them in one section view with the mouse and thereby highlighting them in yellow on which you currently worked.
This helps really seeing what influence certain manipulations have on the hull as all changes are promoted to all views in quasi real-time.
Especially, if your working on an area of the hull which is particularly tricky like e.g. the tumbling in bulwark of a tug's stern.
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deadwood

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #79 on: January 18, 2012, 11:20:25 PM »

Hi Ralph
I have had a look at the post on Tor Britainnia ,very impressive. I am working my way through all the 5 pages on the thread you have done on the German forum via Google translator. I have a question is there much on model ferries on the diffrent German forums?

John
Hi John,

I am really sorry that you took the pain to sift through my German outpour.
When I wrote it I didn't have a Non-German audience in mind.
Basically, I dropped a few words about my motivation why I chose the respective vessel and had a few remarks about the vessel's background and what sources I used for reconstruction of lines (i.e. mostly articles in naval architecture periodicals of (then) newbuildings' descriptions as well as data sheets which were available at shipping operators' websites).

I am afraid, I don't know of any German forum or club devoted to model ferries.
For unknown reasons one very rarely, if ever, sees model buildings of ferries at RC model boaters' meetings, which is a pity.

I only found this reference to a model of TOR BRITANNIA.
But on the website of the Hamburg model boats club
(who have a several time world champion in scale ship model making (see Mottschall's homepage) amongst their members)
I cannot find any photos or further reference to the model which purportedly was built by an SMC Hamburg member.

Unfortunately, the shipyard which built TOR BRITANNIA (i.e. Lübecker Flender-Werft) which I visited over many years during my summer holidays at the Baltic Sea in the Lübeck Bay area, especially when spectacular launches of newbuildings were due, is no longer in existence.

HTH
Ralph
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cos918

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #80 on: January 23, 2012, 11:10:50 PM »

Hi Ralph
I have now worked through the 6 pages. I mst say very impressive. Google does an ok job of translating and I can get the gist of what is being said. I like the drawing of Silja Symphony ,I have been on her twice. Yoo are very good at Delf ship program.
What I was asking if there any post / threads on RC-Modellbau- Schiffe . DE Forum on Ferry models .


John
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #81 on: January 23, 2012, 11:24:34 PM »

Hi Ralph - Please forgive me for not answering sooner....I have been so snowed under at work and then spending hours in the workshop, I havent seemed to have had much time to contribute much on here lately....

I had a quick look at your posts on the German site and, I have to say, I am extremely impressed with your work.  I have had a look at Delftship in the recent past but I find that I just cant get my head around it at the moment.

I am, primarily, a 2D draughtsman on CAD - where I can draw 2D images and then convert them to 3D in my mind to visualise the finished result, the consequences of 'old school' teaching in architecture.  Today, the 'young guns' all use 3D packages to produce building designs, however I seem to be stuck in the past producing drawings as if I was still on my 'double elepant' sized drawing board!!!!!

Thank you for the complimentary comments re the kits - I am trying to produce something that either no-one (or very few) have tried commercially before, so it is taking some time (especially for the first one), and I am having to learn as I go.........I want to get it right, and there are a few friends on here who are waiting very patiently for me to progress (thank you all  :-))).........but it is just me at the moment - with some help in the background with technical matters - so it is taking a little longer than I would like....

As for a kit of the Tor Britannia (or Hollandia?) - that is certainly a subject worth considering...........I will drop you a PM tomorrow if you dont mind as I have a few questions that I dont want to clutter up this thread with.

Regards
Carl

deadwood

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #82 on: January 28, 2012, 06:15:36 PM »

Hi Carl,

I noticed that you still lack a lines plan of NORLAND.
And as it isn't too much ado for me I felt free to take the side elevation (presumably from a general arrangements plan (GAP)) which you posted initially in this thread, and reconstruct a set of hull lines of NORLAND in DELFTship.
Then on hhvferry.com I discovered some decks views (purportedly from the GAP).
And finally, from this Wikipedia article on MV NORLAND I took her main dimensions.
I preferred to create my set of lines with her original dimensions as built, because according to this article and some photos that I viewed of her on shipspotting.com, she was lengthened in 1987 by a 20.5m midship section.
I think if a model boater has the additional required transportation capacity and thus wishes to build her in the lengthened version
that it won't be a too challenging task to supply a fitting midship section from the lines.
With regard to the reported beam I am not sure if that is her moulded breadth or her over all breadth, including the for ferry vessels typical fenders.
Anyway, any deviations resulting from this I consider not to be conspicuous on a model.
The proportions seem to look balanced.

Thus I took these dimensions:

Lpp........138.00 m
B..............25.20 m
T................6.02 m

About the lower knuckle line in depth of the car deck I am not sure how far to the bow it extends.
I only had very few pictures from shipspotting.com as a reference which were quite shady in this area of the fore ship.
On those it looked to me that the knuckle line didn't have a visible crease edge forming influence any more.

However, if you are interested I could supply you with my resulting DELFTship (DS) fbm data file.
With it you could download the free version of DS and further improve or correct my set of lines if your reference material shows better evidence.
Beyond, you can create sections (i.e. frames, waterlines, buttocks, diagonals) at virtually any point of the hull in any required spacing.
You could also discard all the sections that I had set without affecting the shape of the hull.
I think this is an invaluable feature of digitized hull lines for any model boater as you can arrange e.g. frames where your model construction would require them.

Here I will only post the body plan and compound lines plan that DS created of my work.
If you want to see more (e.g. 3D model preview shots) see my posting in my thread on our German forum.

Regards
Ralph







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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #83 on: February 01, 2012, 04:18:26 PM »

Hi Ralph,

That is incredible work - I am in awe!!!!!!

I have many questions - so I sent you a PM (didnt want to clutter up the forum.....).

The particulars you have would have been breadth moulded - the rubbing strakes would be extra - though as you say, at a model size of 1:96 I dont think it is critical so long as the main features are all in proportion to each other.  And I agree with you about the length - it is my intention to offer her at her original length and offer a hull section for those who want to re-create the lengthened version.

I have many more photos of her - including some detailed underhull and close-up shots - but this I have mentioned in the PM......................

Thanks for taking the time to produce these drawings - they certainly are a work of art  :-))
Carl

wartsilaone

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #84 on: February 01, 2012, 09:59:31 PM »

I have a feeling the stated breadth of 25.2 m includes rubbing stakes. The lock at Hull is 25.9 m wide and there's about foot clearance on either side.

Ali.
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #85 on: February 01, 2012, 10:37:24 PM »

I will bow to your superior knowledge on this one Ali - you know her far far better than I do... Carl

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #86 on: February 02, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »

Ali - these are the particulars I have for the Norland. Can you please confirm their accuracy please?
Cheers, Carl

Technical Details (Prior to 1987 Lengthening)
Shipyard AG 'Weser', Werk Seebeck, Bremerhaven, Germany
Launched 1973
Construction Number 972
Delivered 1974
Length Overall 152.77m
Width 25.2m
Draught 5.2m
Gross Tonnage 12988 BRZ / GT
Speed 18.5kts
Engines 2 x Stork-Werkspoor 16TM Diesels
Load Capacity 500 Cars
Passengers 1243
Flag United Kingdom
IMO Number 7333822

Technical Details (Following 1987 Lengthening)
Length Overall 173.25m
Draught 5.7m
Gross Tonnage 27000 BRZ / GT
Passengers 889

Talisman

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #87 on: February 02, 2012, 04:17:36 PM »

Hi Carl,


However, if you are interested I could supply you with my resulting DELFTship (DS) fbm data file.
With it you could download the free version of DS and further improve or correct my set of lines if your reference material shows better evidence.

Regards
Ralph



You don't get offers like that every day....
Carl, with those files you know what i could do with them...
Regards,
Kim
Let the record show I'm not pursuing them ... regardless of how tempting!!!...
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #88 on: February 02, 2012, 04:20:08 PM »

You don't get offers like that every day....
Carl, with those files you know what i could do with them...
Regards,
Kim
Let the record show I'm not pursuing them ... regardless of how tempting!!!...

Dont I know it Kim, dont I know it....................
Rest assured, the moss is not growing under my feet!!!!
C

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #89 on: February 02, 2012, 05:23:07 PM »

Are the feet up on the old desk again then Carl?  {-)

Dave
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #90 on: February 02, 2012, 05:32:16 PM »

I wish  %) - luckily, I can leave Mayhem running in the background whilst I try and concentrate on some paying work  %% %%

Just hope the boss doesnt look over my shoulder :police: :police:
C

Talisman

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2012, 05:37:57 PM »

The first rule of a Hobie must be ...
Don't let work get in the way...
and if you can make it pay ...


Perhaps the next line should be ....
Don't delay?

Just thoughts
Kim
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wartsilaone

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2012, 08:38:25 PM »

All looks good Carl..apart the engine type.

TM410's

Ali.
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2012, 08:43:43 PM »

Cheers Ali - not heard yet from Ralph, but will keep on............
C

wartsilaone

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2012, 08:44:47 PM »

Not sure how many cylinders they have but have look at this.......MUSIC....SWEET MUSIC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtYETSuWpQU&feature=related

Ali

PS As you stated Probably 16 cylinders each.
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deadwood

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2012, 01:38:53 AM »

Hello Carl,

a couple of days ago I sent you an email to your submitted address and attached the fbm file of my NORLAND lines to it.

I hope that the mail server serving the given MX domain accepted my attachment, though its size was a mere ca. 250 KB which normally should be below the deny threshold of most servers.

Regards
Ralph



P.S. I posted my estimate of the hull lines of the French ferry NAPOLEON BONAPARTE a few hours ago in my thread.
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carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #96 on: June 14, 2013, 11:26:53 PM »

1.590 metres long  :-))
 

 

 

 

 
 8)

carlmt

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #97 on: June 14, 2013, 11:29:08 PM »


 
 :-)) 8)

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2013, 09:12:08 PM »

Hi Carl,
Those (virtual) hull outlines look spot-on!  You are giving us an enticing glimpse of Norland / Norstar, and judging from you WIP photos of your first kit, this will also be one to savour. Keep at it!
Best wishes,
HansP
 
 
 
 
 
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wartsilaone

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Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #99 on: July 18, 2013, 09:52:41 PM »

Hi Carl,
consider my appetite thoroughly wetted.....I can't wait.


Ali
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