Model Boat Mayhem - Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15   Go Down

Author Topic: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....  (Read 112730 times)

Rottweiler

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,181
  • Location: Carharrack Cornwall
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #200 on: February 04, 2017, 09:59:01 PM »

Maybe even be able to adapt your stabilisers to fit my QE2 ! Mine are basically the same within a sealed box,but would be worked by gears and motors,all mechanical
This certainly does look brilliant.

Mick F
Logged

derekwarner

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,918
  • Location: Wollongong Australia
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #201 on: February 05, 2017, 12:37:27 AM »

A very ingenious & Dockyard like building for the assembly and installation of the rudders and supports Carl :-))

I have never been involved with finned stabilizers, however was once seconded to assist in resolving a [pure] hydraulic systems stabiliser fault with an RAN vessel.......so.....

With respect to the stabilisers, it appears that the stdb blade has been installed with an approx. ~~10 degrees upward lift in the FWD plane.......from this, should the port blade not be installed with the same ~~10 degree but with a downward lift again in the FWD plane?.....[or do I have the geometry all wrong and both P&S blades have the same ~~ upward lift...or angle of attach as in an aeroplane foil wing?]

The stabiliser housing water tight box's are free flooding, however is the design height to accommodate the withdrawal of blades in an semi inclined [taller profile] manner?

Derek
Logged
Derek Warner

Honorary Secretary [Retired]
Illawarra Live Steamers Co-op
Australia
www.ils.org.au

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #202 on: February 10, 2017, 11:56:07 AM »

Hi Derek - Great questions there!!
I will try to answer within the text below as it would be more relevant I think.

A very ingenious & Dockyard like building for the assembly and installation of the rudders and supports Carl :-))

I have never been involved with finned stabilizers, however was once seconded to assist in resolving a [pure] hydraulic systems stabiliser fault with an RAN vessel.......so.....

With respect to the stabilisers, it appears that the stdb blade has been installed with an approx. ~~10 degrees upward lift in the FWD plane.......from this, should the port blade not be installed with the same ~~10 degree but with a downward lift again in the FWD plane?.....[or do I have the geometry all wrong and both P&S blades have the same ~~ upward lift...or angle of attach as in an aeroplane foil wing?] On the full-sized ship, the stabiliser blades would rotate about their chord to either produce lift or visa versa dependent upon the roll of the ship.  Their movement would have been controlled by either gyros (in early systems) or computers (today).  They would be independent of each other and move to correct the roll of the ship.  In a model, I don't think that this independence is feasible so I took the view to introduce a little equal lift on both sides.  I doubt that it would have much effect to be honest - it is more cosmetic on a model than anything else.

The stabiliser housing water tight box's are free flooding, however is the design height to accommodate the withdrawal of blades in an semi inclined [taller profile] manner? Absolutely! On the full-sized ship the blade would be rotated almost flat before retraction but on the model this isn't possible so I had to make the slot large enough to allow the blade to swing in comfortably.

Derek

I will see how she performs on trials with the stabilisers extended.  If they introduce some unwanted movement I can always re-design the blade profile to be 'neutral' (the same camber above and below) and this would probably allow a narrower slot in the hull.

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #203 on: February 10, 2017, 12:03:12 PM »

Getting very close to the first 'on water' trials now - with a bit of luck (and half decent weather) that should be this weekend  :-))

All the electronics have been installed : mixers on the motors to allow slewing when stationary, bow thruster fitted, and Action Electronics 'Servomorph' installed for the stabilisers (these yet to be connected to the servo) -







Please excuse the untidy wiring - job for this evening!!!!

Last one for now........



Carl  :-))

dougal99

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,890
  • Huntingdon, Cambs, England
  • Location: Huntingdon, England
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #204 on: February 10, 2017, 12:36:59 PM »

Carl,


I liked your wiring, looks a lot like mine  :-))


Impressed by the speed of your build, makes my efforts look very slothful. Looking forward to seeing the completed model at Dortmund.


Doug
Logged
Don't Assume Check

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #205 on: February 11, 2017, 10:33:16 PM »

Carl,


I liked your wiring, looks a lot like mine  :-))


Impressed by the speed of your build, makes my efforts look very slothful. Looking forward to seeing the completed model at Dortmund.


Doug

Thanks Doug! Just hope I can get her presentable by then........  Not for the want of trying!!!

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #206 on: February 11, 2017, 10:38:39 PM »

Was hoping to get her on the water this weekend but I think the weather may have put the kybosh on that idea - at least for today.  So spent the day in the workshop (surprise surprise....) fitting all the main (C) deck supports.  It is planned that this deck - and all above it - will be removable giving acres of access to the hull:
 
Bow deck (fixed):

 
Main deck supports with hull bracing below - this hull bracing is strong enough to be used as handles for lifting the boat in and out of the water:
 

 
Main - C - deck temporarily laid in place.  The large openings are mainly to save weight and materials:
 

 

 
CT  :-))

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,549
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #207 on: February 12, 2017, 05:42:03 PM »

The great big space in the plastic sheet must accomodate most of the smaller pieces for the kit!

I like your idea of making the hull supports as lifting handles. Tip noted for future reference:O)

Does your hull fit in your laser cutter? The reason I ask is because it occurred to me that larger apetures in the hull sides could be laser cut neatly if the hull was held in a simple cradle. I had a quick look on the web and found that laser cutting GRP is possible and less damaging to the material than conventional machining or water cutting.

This is the link: http://www.industrial-lasers.com/articles/print/volume-26/issue-5/features/laser-machining-fiber-reinforced-composites.html

Even if it just saved you some time then it might be worth looking at. Mind you, if the hull does not fit in your machine, then ignore my gibberings:O)
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #208 on: February 12, 2017, 09:21:53 PM »

The great big space in the plastic sheet must accomodate most of the smaller pieces for the kit! That it does Ian  :-))  - mostly other parts of the deck but also the hull window frames.
I like your idea of making the hull supports as lifting handles. Tip noted for future reference:O)  The handles are bonded to the same sized pieces of timber bonded to the hull sides fore and aft to give rigidity to the hull.  I wouldn't risk carrying the boat any great distance, but in and out of the water would be ok.

Does your hull fit in your laser cutter? No, not even close.... The reason I ask is because it occurred to me that larger apetures in the hull sides could be laser cut neatly if the hull was held in a simple cradle. I had a quick look on the web and found that laser cutting GRP is possible and less damaging to the material than conventional machining or water cutting. I like the idea, and the theory is sound, but the cutting bed would need to be quite large......and I am unsure what toxins would be given off by lasering resin.

This is the link: http://www.industrial-lasers.com/articles/print/volume-26/issue-5/features/laser-machining-fiber-reinforced-composites.html

Even if it just saved you some time then it might be worth looking at. Mind you, if the hull does not fit in your machine, then ignore my gibberings:O)  Not gibberings Ian........thought provoking ideas I call it.  Without these sorts of discussions technology and ideas wouldn't advance.

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #209 on: February 12, 2017, 09:32:41 PM »

Bit more done today - again too cold and now too windy to have a first test sail.....
 
I find the most difficult part of designing a ship kit on a computer, with the software that I have / know, is the front wrap-around part of the superstructure.  I realise that I need a 3D package that can compute a skin and then lay it out flat.  I can create the internal framework - that part is just basic geometry - but to then get the skinning to work correctly the only method I can use at the moment is to wrap a piece of card around the frame and mark it off.
 
Firstly, the internal framework is built up:
 

 

 
And then placed in position to check fit:
 

 
All being good, the frame was then glued up with liquid poly applied by brush.
 
This next shot shows the half skinning with the window locations indicated:
 

 
This half skin will now be scanned into the computer, tidied up, mirrored to make a full skin and then sent to the laser cutter for cutting in 1mm styrene.  1mm is better for this situation as, while it doesn't bend as easily as 0.5mm, when fitted it doesn't give a hungry horse effect.
 
Whilst we couldn't sail today, we did have a 'tub test'.  Even though she is too long to fit into our bath, we managed to submerge the bow thruster tube and the propshafts and rudders (in turn) to see if there were any leaks.  Thankfully, there were none!!!
 
That's it for tonight.....up early in the morning so calling it a night.
Pip pip
Carl  :-))
 

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,549
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #210 on: February 13, 2017, 10:27:55 PM »

I knew of a lad on our old wargames forum who was into designing computer game characters and was often on about 'skinning' models. I don't know if he used a 3d drawing program, but you might find that a younger member of your family has the knowhow to do some of what you are looking to learn.

Re toxins, I read that kevlar supposedly gives off cyanide, but as you are using Polyester resin? I assume that there will be a few nasties in the air as you cut.

Will the carcass underneath the curved front ba made a simpler structure given that you will have the dimentions and shape sorted?
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #211 on: February 18, 2017, 01:39:05 PM »

Hi Ian - Yes, when laser cutting we have to be very careful of the chemical composition of the materials being cut as, not only will they not do your lungs any good (even with air extraction, fumes still get about) but some gasses can seriously corrode the machine.
 
As for the front 'wrap-around' - I am going to see how far I can reduce the support structure before it gets too weak.  As it stands, it only took me about half an hour to clean up the parts and glue them together - almost self supporting really!
 

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #212 on: February 18, 2017, 02:12:26 PM »

Finally, today was 'Launch Day' for the Norland prototype  %% %% %%
 
A bit breezy on our local canal, and the air was biting somewhat, be she handled the conditions very well:
 

 
After placing her on the water, lead sheet (3" square per piece) was laid inside fore and aft until she sat on her designed water-line.  We weighed her when we got home and she tipped the scales at 13.4kg all up.  Naturally, the amount of lead will be reduced as the weight of the superstructure needs to be factored in yet.
 
Here are a few more shots of her on the water - 2 x 555 brushed motors driving 40mm dia brass props through Action Electronics P94 and P102 boards.  She has mixing on the rear props and a 400 sized bow thruster:
 

 

 

 
And here is a little video we made of the occasion  :-))
 
https://youtu.be/giIsyQs23FQ
 
Very pleased with how things went this morning - now to crack on and get the superstructures built!

Tug-Kenny

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,717
  • Location: Newport. S Wales
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #213 on: February 18, 2017, 02:21:44 PM »


Nice show of power and a good turning ability, even in the wind.

Smashing model.   :-))

ken
Logged
Despite the high cost of living   .......... It remains popular

Mark T

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 879
  • Location: Dudley in the Black Country
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #214 on: February 18, 2017, 03:43:26 PM »

Nice show of power and a good turning ability, even in the wind.

Smashing model.   :-))

ken


I couldn't agree more.  It seems to have plenty of of power to cut through the water.  I'm looking forward to seeing the detail going on.
Logged
Its not the finishing that matters - Its the journey along the way that counts

Fairmount Alpine Build http://modelboatmayhemimages.co.uk/album/bXv
Anteo Tug Build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,59708.0.html

hama

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
  • Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #215 on: February 18, 2017, 06:03:45 PM »

She looks very impressive! Well done and congratulations on a successful trial!
Hama
Logged

Rottweiler

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2,181
  • Location: Carharrack Cornwall
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #216 on: February 18, 2017, 09:19:37 PM »

Congratulations Carl, she looks very good on the water,and seems to answer very well. We can see there is a chop on the water,with a breeze blowing,but it didnt seem to affect her at all
Look forward to the next stage my friend.
Mick F
Logged

Howard

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 739
  • Location: Scotter Lincolnshire
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #217 on: February 18, 2017, 09:52:50 PM »

Looking Great Carl,
 another winner I think following you with interest a master in the making.


                                         Regards Howard.
Logged

boathound

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 114
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #218 on: February 18, 2017, 10:39:37 PM »

Looks fantastic, can't wait to build one!  :-)
Logged

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,549
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #219 on: February 19, 2017, 03:12:35 PM »

You can see the effort taken to get the design right. Lovely job Carl  :-))
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #220 on: February 19, 2017, 10:07:37 PM »

Thanks for the compliments folks  :-))   Was pretty nervous putting her on the water for the first time - and the Free Enterprise ferry was in the back of the car in case things went quiet in the middle of the canal.... :embarrassed:   Need not have worried though - she really did perform very well with plenty of oomph and was as stable as a rock.
 
Been back in the workshop today cracking on with the superstructures.  A fiddly and time consuming process but worth being patient over to get everything squared up.  It is far easier to build up the structures in situ on the boat as opposed to off the model (I tried both methods).  That way, checks and adjustments can be made as you go along.
 

 
Firstly, small tabs from scrap sheet were glued around the opening to assist in locating the structure walls:
 

 
This element was built off the model and then located on the deck - I don't advise doing it this was as it was a bit of a bind to make it fit in the end:
 

 

 
The middle section was built up in situ - much easier:
 

 
The permanently fixed part of the superstructure was braced with wood and small sheets of 1mm styrene added as decks - these can be seen through the windows so I will detail these with seats/tables etc. later and form a 'backdrop' around the opening in the decks from photographs:
 

 
Once this lot had dried sufficiently, I continued with the removable part of the superstructure:
 

 

 
The question was raised earlier about reducing the amount of structure within the rounded front (with the black windows showing).  Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to be possible as a fair amount of strength and rigidity is needed in the framework of this part to allow the skin to be wrapped around and held tightly while the glue sets.  If there was less support structure there would be a danger that it would collapse as the modeller tried to wrestle the skin in to position and add elastic bands/clamps/masking tape etc.
 
OK!!! That's it for tonight.........shower and bed methinks..........
 
Pip pip  :-))

ballastanksian

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,549
  • Model Boat Mayhem inspires me!
  • Location: Crewkerne
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #221 on: February 20, 2017, 09:35:54 PM »

Nighty night, nighty night, you have earned a well deserved kip after all that building.
Logged
Pond weed is your enemy

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #222 on: March 02, 2017, 11:39:17 PM »

Back in the workshop this week following our research trip to Stockholm to photograph and measure one of the archipelago ferries for a future project  :-)) ok2 .
 
Cracking on with the decks and superstructures - one more to go (bridge deck) and then we have reached the top.  Should have that on this weekend.  Then it will be down to filling all the joints and prepping for paint.
 

 

 

 
I think we should just about make it for Dortmund  O0

Robbie11

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
  • Model Boat Mayhem is Great!
  • Location: Wirral
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #223 on: March 03, 2017, 02:00:38 PM »

Will you be fitting this one out with the Falklands heli-deck? Looks fantastic so far!
Logged

carlmt

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,305
  • Figurin' it out........slowly!!!
  • Location: Redditch, Worcestershire
    • Linkspan Models
Re: Linkspan Models Norland / Norstar - Development of a kit.....
« Reply #224 on: March 03, 2017, 02:21:49 PM »

Will you be fitting this one out with the Falklands heli-deck? Looks fantastic so far!

Hi Robbie - thanks for the compliments.

The kit will be offered just as the basic civilian version as standard but there will be optional accessories available shortly after release:

A Falklands upgrade kit - containing styrene parts for the heli-decks, etched brass sheet containing the safety netting and other details, a Sea King helicopter, graphics for the 2 Para crest for the funnel and written and drawn instructions on how to modify the standard kit to represent her in Falklands guise.

A detailing upgrade kit - containing internal detail such as seats and tables for the various lounges that can be seen through the large windows plus a detailed bridge interior.  These parts will be produced in 3D plastic.

It makes sense to offer these as additions to the basic kit as not all purchasers will want to have them.  Especially so for the internal 3D parts, they are quite expensive and to include them as standard would push the cost of the kit up disproportionally.

Hope this helps?

Carl
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15   Go Up