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Author Topic: Saga cat revamp  (Read 3237 times)

F1 madness

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Saga cat revamp
« on: April 15, 2011, 12:26:04 PM »

After major disaster of frying 1 esc,motor,completly ripping the stuffing tube and flexi out and 1 of the stingers bearings gave up had to do a revamp and rethink.
after going through the spares box decided to go single drive
Scorpion 3026 1900kv on 6s (3s x 2 in series)
200 amp esc
HOR watercooled mount
strudder assembly same as genesis
plenty of props LOL
I know 1900kv on 6s is abit much but its just for fun and see what i can get out of it.
Should be fast LOL



Just gotta fill the holes where previous drives were etc and make some battery trays and shes ready for rock
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2011, 01:29:37 PM »


Just bath tested make sure all the holes i filled are water tight and pressure test the cooling,hit throttle a little and nearly jumped out the bath and i got a soaking LOL
Iv just worked out the standard motors about 350watts each and the scorpion
is 1400watts
The weight difference is reduced by loads,so more power lighter hull spells OH S:censored:T me thinks
only got charge batts,grease the flexi add the batt trays then of down the pool to see what happens,if the weather holds off later today:popcorn:
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2011, 03:15:09 PM »

Haha me thinks this things gonna pull wheelies lol  :D.,dont forget to get some video  :-)).
Mart
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2011, 04:32:25 PM »

LOL i reckoning in the 50's
Will post some vids and see what happens :-))
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2011, 07:15:04 PM »

Naah 60s i reckon  :}
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2011, 07:36:03 PM »

Hey mart just got back,it was fast and gonna hit full throttle
Them esc's you brought,iv just blown 1 and only running 38mm prop on this motor and amp draw from mah left in batts is 115amps  stop dead and filled the boat with smoke had to wade out to retrieve it
190 amp my butt dont run them bud youlll be dissapointed,waste of money if you ask me
Just uploading vid now
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triumphjon

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2011, 07:24:40 AM »

what are the controllers bud ? then we will all know they arent up to the job!
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2011, 08:43:13 AM »

These 1's
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15134
For extra 20 you can buy swordfish 200,from iv read of them quality esc,should of brought 1 of them in the 1st place
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2011, 09:00:49 AM »

Hi Daz you were using a very high kv motor that is maybe where the problem is ?,i know guys are using these on 6s lipos on the lower kv motors 880,1100 and even1400 without any issues.I know anything over 6s they say not to use them etc.Also using that small prop would make the motor rev its nuts off i would think,i personally would have gone lower kv and larger prop,no harm done though 20 up in smoke lol.Contact em and get a replacement?.I allready have them so ill try em and see but thanks for the heads up.
Mart
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2011, 09:18:08 AM »

Ran this set up before on 28" F1 no problems with 120amp esc,just wanted more head room to prop up,using the smaller prop to keep amp draw down.
on average pulled 115 amps,motor only just warm and so are the batts,20 is alot for 2mins of run time
Pile of junk and know others who have had same problems

Theres also a genesis on tube,running same motor on 6s with 42mm and hitting 60+mph and only using T180 ESC,no problems so this esc should have coped with it
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2011, 04:36:37 PM »

You know of people who had the same problems  so why did you use it ?,as i say i know of a few using these with no issues but not on such high kv motors and certainly i wouldnt use a high kv motor on 6s with one,4s would be fine but for 6s i would have gone lower kv personally but im only going on what ive picked up from those ive spoken to on these things nd im still learning lol.Sureley on such a high kv motor on 6s the amps are bound to be high ?.I know a guy running one on 6s with the 1400 turnigy and he said temps were a little hot so he was going down to the 1100 kv one to try and run cooler.
Mart
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2011, 05:05:05 PM »

These 1's
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=15134
For extra 20 you can buy swordfish 200,from iv read of them quality esc,should of brought 1 of them in the 1st place
Where can you get the swordfish200 from for 40 ? cheapest ive seen them was 96.
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john s 2

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2011, 05:17:13 PM »

Why are fuses not used? If selected to match the esc output. Then no burnt out esc. Better a fused fuse than
an esc. If you choose to ignor the makers spec then trouble can occur. Thats why makers specify a limit.John.
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2011, 06:09:10 PM »

You know of people who had the same problems  so why did you use it ?,as i say i know of a few using these with no issues but not on such high kv motors and certainly i wouldnt use a high kv motor on 6s with one,4s would be fine but for 6s i would have gone lower kv personally but im only going on what ive picked up from those ive spoken to on these things nd im still learning lol.Sureley on such a high kv motor on 6s the amps are bound to be high ?.I know a guy running one on 6s with the 1400 turnigy and he said temps were a little hot so he was going down to the 1100 kv one to try and run cooler.
Mart

I used it because they were running bigger motors than what im using,the motor is built for upto 6s so i run it at 6s and used smaller prop,either way it shouldnt of burnt out the way it did,the motor was cold enough and batts to of been able to go up in prop size but the ESC cant take it,even running lower kv and bigger props will still load up the amps rating.
Even adding a fuse wouldnt of stopped the esc burning out,115 amps is not that much for a so 200amp esc so should of been more than enough even on 6s.
These escs are suppo,tfl,rcmax,HK all made by the same company just different labeling and wont be buying another 1.I paid 45 of ebay for my esc as i wanted it for this weekend instead of waiting for weeks,but for the extra should of brought these,soz mart theyve gone 25 extra they gone up
http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3_28&products_id=1201
Just my opinion they are a crock of s**t and a waste of time
Plugged spare 120 amp esc in tried no problems except abit warm so on the limits,will order new swordfish esc soon and go again.
Did get a vid but having trouble with memory card slot on PC,will post soon :-))
 

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john s 2

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2011, 08:22:01 PM »

Thanks for explaining. The esc was well within limits. Guess must be Chinese? They do seem to vary in
quality and reliability. Ive had problems with brushed types. Ive learnt my lesson and now stick to uk sold
with gaurentee. Preferably uk made as well. John.
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2011, 11:34:03 PM »

right here we go,been doing some research into these esc's why they are so unreliable
This is a piece iv copied and pasted with permission from a guy who has experience with these esc.
This goes for TFL,SUPPO,HK,MYSTERY ESC

The main cause of failure on these devices is heat, followed by improper assembly. The capacitors on the board are inadequate and can quickly fail if allowed to spark charge on higher voltage setups.
 Install an additional capacitor to help maintain voltage under a load. The capacitors on the board are inadequate and will allow the voltage to drop quickly under load. This will cause more heat in the FET's and eventually lead to overheat, failure or even fire.
  Install an no-spark resistor. This will allow the capacitors to fill more slowly, helping to prevent premature failure from "spark charging" which causes excessive heat and failure.
DO NOT OVER STRESS THIS ESC


Mart this has come from a reliable scource and has even had these caught fire,he also recomends only 50-75%  of total amperage the esc is rated for on 6s,but recomends 4s for longer life of the ESC
He also recomends a 100Ohm no spark resister and a rubycon 4700uf,105* capacitor fitted directly to the the to the esc on the pcb
Reheat shrink when done and use a non acidic sealant to seal the ends to waterproof the esc.
Only giving this help to or any1 else who buys this product and dont want to read youve had a fire or nout thats all
Rgds Daz
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2011, 11:53:54 PM »

Thats all double dutch to me Daz ,havent a clue what you just said lol
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gregk9

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2011, 12:29:41 AM »

No Offence daz, but surely, buying an esc, then having to buy more bits to modify it before you even fit it, rules out the cost effectiveness of buying the cheaper esc in the first place. as afterall, its no longer the cheaper option, surely.............

id of thought myself, that if your motors are running these sorts of high amperage numbers, you need to run them through some proper kit,  as the expense you have put in to this boat alone over the past few weeks would of bought something reliable and you would not of had so much aggro.


Perhaps im being to "logical" ........... captain.
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bbdave

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2011, 08:51:06 AM »

No Offence daz, but surely, buying an esc, then having to buy more bits to modify it before you even fit it, rules out the cost effectiveness of buying the cheaper esc in the first place. as afterall, its no longer the cheaper option, surely.............

id of thought myself, that if your motors are running these sorts of high amperage numbers, you need to run them through some proper kit,  as the expense you have put in to this boat alone over the past few weeks would of bought something reliable and you would not of had so much aggro.


Perhaps im being to "logical" ........... captain.


Totaly agree with that gregk9 seems alot of fiddling to get an ok esc

Dave
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2011, 10:36:11 AM »

No Offence daz, but surely, buying an esc, then having to buy more bits to modify it before you even fit it, rules out the cost effectiveness of buying the cheaper esc in the first place. as afterall, its no longer the cheaper option, surely.............

id of thought myself, that if your motors are running these sorts of high amperage numbers, you need to run them through some proper kit,  as the expense you have put in to this boat alone over the past few weeks would of bought something reliable and you would not of had so much aggro.


Perhaps im being to "logical" ........... captain.

No offence taken steve
At the end of the day i wont be buying another
The ESC is supossed to be 200amps continous,230 bursts,as stated i run the setup on 120 amp esc but was on the limits hence why i tried the 200 amp esc to prop up and have more head room.
Agreed whats the point in buying a product then spending more to get it to work to cope with only near what it states.
I brought it to try,iv tried it and is pure simply no good,maybe should of done more research,lesson learned LOL


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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2011, 10:38:10 AM »

Thats all double dutch to me Daz ,havent a clue what you just said lol

Mart ill help where i can :-))
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2011, 02:14:39 PM »

It seems to me theres some variation in the quality of them as many seem to like them and have no problems ,some have had issues as you say.That said i think using a lower kv motor would suit 6s setups better as i think with your setup you are getting close to 40,000 rpm which to my mind is too much?.I would think aiming for 30,000 rpm would be better suited so 4s would be better maybe but thats just my opinion.Im stuck with these now as i cant afford to go buying new more expensive ones right now,maybe they will work fine with my low 880 kv motors as a few guys claim.Adding this or soldering that to them is not something i would want to do as i have no clue what id be doing or why lol.By the way can get those swordfish esc for 50 each at hobbyking might be possible later if these dont work.
Mart
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martno1fan

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2011, 11:25:11 PM »

Hi Daz i spoke to my pal Patrik from Finland today he says hes used these esc,s for years "himodel" same esc diff brand name and hes only fried one and said that was because it got wet as theyre not water proof.Anyway my motors should be fine on them because the 880 kv ones are only rated at 90 amps ,he just said run it at wot no slow runs which makes sense as it puts a lot of strain on the esc when running slow,so ill run for 1 min and check things for heat then go from there.Suppose i could add extra caps would the cap modules aztec sell work and if so how do i attach them ?.
Mart
http://www.youtube.com/rangerpate
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F1 madness

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Re: Saga cat revamp
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2011, 10:11:38 AM »

Hey mart
The motor im using is only rated at 80amps and averaged 115 amps,i ran pretty much wot and still fried,which any decent 200 amp esc would of coped with ease.
I did waterproof the esc by filling the ends of the heat shrink with silicon,but remember to use non acidic types
Adding the extra caps is easy,strip back a of insulation on the black & red wires on the esc as close to the heat shrink and solder the caps to the wires where you stripped a piece out and jobs good 1
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