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[wartsilaone]

OH DEAR!

[nhp651]

ouch!!!

[carlmt]

Mark - what you say about the cost of the fly-boys hobby IS eye watering.......I think I will stick to boats (my wife would kill me if I spent that kind of money on 'toys' .)

As for your comment about sour grapes.....please dont get me wrong. I am as annoyed about poor quality and cost as the next modeller - it was the comment about cost of materials and a few hours labour that got me riled.....

I have calmed down a bit now - I can see that it was an isolated comment and is (hopefully) not the general view of the model boat fraternity....

Lets face it, there is never going to be mega-bucks invested in the model boats hobby business, and so (with very few exceptions) all kits will essentially be hand crafted before the modeller even gets their hands on them. In most cases, the closest a  kit comes to robot manufacture is the new CNC cutting of some of the parts, and even here a human has to draw the drawing that the machine will follow...... All else will remain hand made (hull, fittings, drawings in most cases...)

But as RR says - when it comes to quality control, there really is no excuse...
Carl

[CF-FZG]

This model cost well over 40k, and this was it's second flight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPGFaXqzitc

A couple of corrections,

Firstly it cost £20k not 40, and the vast majority of that was 'sponsored' including £12k worth of engines.  
Secondly, it wasn't on it's second flight, it had flown several times since it's flight test program of around 12 flights, so say around 15-20 total flights.

The reason for the crash - pilot error, he hadn't set his timer before take off, and as he looked down to set it on his Tx it rolled too far one way, he couldn't tell which way - wrong correction and you can see the outcome

@Carl  - no problem mate

@Neil - sorry, the small type worked a bit too well


Mark


Mark

[andyn]

Either way....

[RaaArtyGunner]

CF-FZG,

If he came to Oz and enlisted in the 20 SATA Regiment Royal Australian Artillery, they would supply the plane and bombs and also pay him to fly it.

Similar to what The yanks use as pilotless drones.

Back to Kits, at the end of the day a kit must be reasonably priced, for what is offered (quality and content) else it won't sell and bankruptcies occur.
It is an unrealistic and economic fallacy to try and recoup all your research, design, production etc costs when pricing the kit, could it have been done smarter and cheaper such as producing more kits or buying bulk or cheaper materials etc.
Therefore the price arrived at is a balance and hope to return some profit.
Unfortunately these days there exists a get rich quick mentality where 100% profit is sought on each item and makers wonder why consumers don't buy even though its the best available. 

[wartsilaone]

We could go round in circles saying the same thing. I think everyone agrees that some kits are better than others but generally the price dose reflect that. Its that, You get what you pay for sort of thing. No kit in the world will build itself however, we all know that. Well not all of us it seems. It is possible the person who made the comments has based his assumptions on one bad experience. who knows, who cares?

Ali.

[Roadrunner]

We could go round in circles saying the same thing. I think everyone agrees that some kits are better than others but generally the price dose reflect that. Its that, You get what you pay for sort of thing. No kit in the world will build itself however, we all know that. Well not all of us it seems. It is possible the person who made the comments has based his assumptions on one bad experience. who knows, who cares?

Ali.

I agree with some of that but not all, for one reason... ''You get what you pay for sort of thing'' take my current build the kit is priced at £550 mark which is a fair chunk out of any wallet but yet the kit is so bad it takes all my will power to progress! I've had very cheap kits (£99) that have been of superb quality this one not worth a penny more then £199!

It come down to the effort put in by the people who make the kit's, MS are probably the best for simplicity for putting together that shows the level of quality they build into there models. just a shame many don't or won't follow in there footsteps.

[wartsilaone]

Of course there are exceptions both good and bad. I suppose it comes down to experience making lots of them. I seen a good kit and a bad kit from the same maker. A bit of research before jumping in spending lot of money would always be good.

Ali.
 

[wartsilaone]

There is also the factor of two or more manufacturers competing to make the same model which is bound to drive up standards. But if you want a unique kit, you've got to be prepared in case it's not a particularly good one. If it's the only one available you have to look at and think, Can I make a better one from scratch? I nearly bought a 1:1250 scale ship on Ebay. It was ok, made from metal good detail and priced well but I thought I could do better myself, produce and sell them cheaper.

Ali. 

[ACTion]

It is possible the person who made the comments has based his assumptions on one bad experience. who knows, who cares?

I was once married to an American and came to regret it, but it would be totally unreasonable on that basis for me to say that all Americans (or even all women) are self-centred, pig-ignorant and mentally unbalanced. By the same token you can't make statements such as "all kits are rip-offs" and expect to have any credibility, at least among sensible people.
I would love to find out where the Tootsie guy sails his scratch-built masterpieces, just so that I could stand there and find fault with his  handiwork!
DM

[Roadrunner]

just so that I could stand there and find fault with his  handiwork!

Said like a true fine scale modeller 

Has he posted any of his work to show off his ability's or is his complaint just verbal diarrhoea?

somone want to point in in the way of his post, I can't find it to save my life today. <-- scrub that found the post your all refuring to... funny it was on my blog. must have ignored it when he mentioned MS

[nhp651]

are self-centred, pig-ignorant and mentally unbalanced.

Sounds like she'd suit me to a "T"  LOL

[ACTion]

Sounds like she'd suit me to a "T"  LOL

You  may say that, Neil - I couldn't possibly  comment 
DM

[sailorboy61]

Like everything, if you buy a kit you take your chances, some are good, other bad.....
If you have made that decision to buy, then in all likelyhood you are looking for a quick, 'easy' option, maybe because you aren't able (and that's not a criticism - not everyone is!) to scratch build. Kits are a guideline, a starting point, mostly having undergone a long development and refining process.
I would suggest that if you want something in the water in 5 minutes, pop to beatties or whatever they call themself now and hand over your £30, or else dig deep and spend £3/400 on a ready built product as seen here or the likes of ebay.
There is supposed to be some pleasure gained from building and sailing.... if you're not getting that and only getting a kick from complaining, I would suggest you move on and find something else that appeals more strongly to you.
There are relatively few suppliers of kits, we can do without loosing any, for most people they supply exactly what is needed to meet the step from RTR onto scratch building.

[Roadrunner]

That's like saying '' If I brought and xbox and it only played games when it wanted to rather then when i turn it on'' you be happy with it! ( I'd take mine back for a replacement)

 I really can't understand your point on 'taking a chance' when buying a kit you should never be put in a position to take a chance, the kit should be of a quality that is acceptable to us, and needs only the minor of cleaning up before fitting together.

Don't take it the wrong way your free to your opinion i just can't agree with it.

[CF-FZG]

I would love to find out where the Tootsie guy sails his scratch-built masterpieces, just so that I could stand there and find fault with his  handiwork!

The difference being that he hasn't paid anyone for his scratch build model, whereas people do pay for kits etc.

As I said before, in my experience, it's very rare to buy a kit and not complain about something - but when kit producers get the hump after a complaint about whatever, (sloppy design, kitting, incompatible parts, or even aftersales service), I usually find that word gets around very quickly, more so than if they say "yeah we know about that, it's being corrected for later kits".


Mark.

[RaaArtyGunner]

all women are self-centred, pig-ignorant and mentally unbalanced.

Sounds perfectly normal to me it's the blokes who don't understand them that is the problem
 

[RaaArtyGunner]

Don't lose sight that there are very capable modellers out there who often also buy and build from kits.
After all if kits were easy and to get novices started in scratch building whats the point of complex kits requiring experience.
Don't think you build or sell a kit because it is 'rare' and one of a kind it has to appeal else no sales, not everyone is into tugs, warships, subs etc etc etc.
A sub heading to this topic would include part kit manufacturer such as hulls only same principles and commentary regarding quality content and prices apply

[tigertiger]

I dedicded to go down the scratch building route. As a novice I am starting to regret this.

So far I have spent the eqivalent cost of 2-3 kits, for tools (some not so essential afterall), postage, associated petrol costs etc.
I have also started one model and completed none.

I would have finished at least two kits by now.

Its not the raw material that cost, it is any manufactured parts, fitting, etc.
And if you are busy, like me at the moment, time is priceless. And if the building process goes on too long, you can lose your original passion for the subject model.

I do agree that not all models are for beginers. But the cheaper ones usually are.

Kits do play an important role and are IMHO worth the money. The models we buy are (mostly) not Airfix or Tamiya (even the good ones of these are expensive); mass produced and 100% moulded plastic. Some models are over 1000 quid, these are outside my budget, I could resent this but won't say they are a rip off. Mostly in life, you get what you pay for. Modeling is no differrent.

[Colin Bishop]

I regard myself as a scratchbuilder although 3 of my 4 currently operational boats are kits! (two are review models).

Kits, whether working or static, are an excellent introduction into the hobby and the quality of the better ones means that many people look no further. However I find building kits frustrating and not only because of the sometimes variable quality of the components. I am constantly querying the way they are put together (I wouldn't have done it that way), the materials, (I wouldn't have used that for that) and the degree of detail (that bit doesn't look right to me or why haven't such and such been included?). Of course the manufacturers are aware of many of these points but they have to design down to a price people are willing to pay. A brass prop would be nice but a couple of them in a large kit are going to push the price up compared with casting white metal ones which will do the job but not as well. And then there are personal preferences. I don't much like styrene for major constructional parts such as superstuctures (it's very heavy compared with it's ply equivalent for comparable strength) although I'm happy to use it for detailing. But most people would probably prefer styrene sheet which doesn't need finishing compared with building up a framework in balsa and covering it with ply.

Overall I think we are lucky these days to have such a choice in the way we can build our models and can pick something which is closest to our preferences in what we enjoy doing. As for costs, well how many weekly shops or visits to the petrol pump do you have to make before passing the average kit price - not many!

Colin