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Author Topic: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser  (Read 15666 times)

Jon

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My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« on: May 23, 2011, 03:35:42 PM »

I’ve acquired a boat off a good friend, that needs some work doing on it. It's a cabin cruiser of unknown age or design (maybe someone can help there).
I’ve already started work on it, but thought I'd go back a couple of weeks and start a blog.

When I got the boat it was in a fairly poor state, with splits along the length of the hull (plank on frame) and deck, I suspect most of these had been caused by the addition of 'Flotation' foam in the bow, the expanding foam doing what it does best and expanding! Most of the fittings were broken the whole thing needing a complete overhaul.





The running gear was a 4ch Ripmax receiver, running directly (NO BEC) off the main battery pack which was five 2V Cyclon lead acid cells (10V nominal), the receiver still working, had suffered from some overheating and melted the case.
The motor was a 6V Marx Hectoperm (IIRC these are ~3K RPM at 6V) so this was running at about 5000 rpm off 10V. The speed control was a custom made, cam/gear/switch/resistor/transistor setup, absolute work of art, but I'm NOT keeping it!
This is driving a 4BA shaft with a 2" 3 blade prop on the back.






So far Ive stripped the hul, filled it, sanded it back, 2 coats of primer, them four light top coats. Painted the waterline, stripped and rebuilt the hecoperm (although I'm looking at replacing this), and added new supports inside.













More to come shortly......
Jon
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Colin Bishop

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2011, 04:40:36 PM »

The boat is almost certainly a Tarpon design which is still in the MyHobbyStore plans range: http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/search.asp?k=tarpon&= It is apparently a scale model of an Italian design built by Vosper and judging by the plan number dates back to the late 1950s/early 1960s.

Colin
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2011, 06:37:13 PM »

Thank-you Colin,
 I hadn't even given the boats name a thought. Should have Goggled Tarpon for a start really, but thought it was just a name that had been put on.
Thanks for the link as well, I'll have to see if I can find some more photos on the web to help finish her off.

Thanks again.
Jon
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2011, 01:27:25 PM »

Right, things have been a little slow recently, but I've managed to get some more work done on the Tarpon.
I've re lacquered the original handmade copper port holes and fitted them back in, they seem to be 12mm copper pipe with a washer of copper soldered to it, then blanked off with P38, inside painted black. I quite like the concept, so I decided to re use them, rather than getting some pre made replacements.



The rudder is now in with a micro servo from Hobby King (HK 15168), seems to have ample power, and was easier to fit as it was just the right height for the rudder arm.



The motor that I'm going to use 1st off is a rewound 12V Johnson 5xx long can motor from a battery drill. It's 5 pole which is why I chose it from the pile, but it went round too fast, and drew about 4A no load at 6V
So, I’ve rewound it so it goes round at ~1000 rpm/volt, unfortunately I’ve misplaced my notes from that evening, but from memory it was about 50 turns per pole of some wire I salvaged from a TV deflection coil.
It runs at about 1A no load now and nice and slow. It's been in the bath, and doesn’t slow down too much under load, so seems to have the grunt I need. We will see when she gets in the water whether I’ve got it right or not.
The motor mount I custom made to place the motor as aligned with the prop shaft as possible, 3mm aluminium will help to cool the motor a bit.





So the radio shelf is fitted, with an old Traxxas XL-1 ESC, and the FS-R6B 2.4GHz receiver. I’ve disabled the BEC on the ESC so if I need to go to 12V it won’t complain.
Receiver batteries are in the foredeck hatch, and the receiver switch and blue LED indicator are on the radio shelf.
Hopefully I will get it on the water this weekend.

Batteries are the next contemplation. The 6V 10Ah lead acids I have are just a little too heavy as are the 12V 7Ah, so I have some 1200mAh NiCad’s (8.4V) and the Lithium 'LiFe' batteries (6.6V or 9.9V) so I think I'll work out what voltage the boat needs and let that decide. Just have to add a reasonable amount of ballast if I go NiCad or LiFe.

The rebuild continues.
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rockets

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 06:36:37 PM »

Nice job you've made of it.
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 05:14:48 PM »

Thanks for the kind comment Rockets, It's getting there.
She had her first outing this weekend in the pouring rain! seemed to go well at a good scale speed when at full throttle, very very quiet which is nice.
I ended up running her on 7.4V LiPo 10aH, but I think I'll try 11.1V next time to get a bit in reserve. Nothing got hot so looks like Ive got the motor well proportioned to the prop.
I'll try to get some photos of it on the water next week when it's not pouring down!

My Flysky 2.4GHz 6Ch V2 set worked flawlessly (tested up to about 150m), I'm very impressed for $27 shipped to the UK including 1 Rx.
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Roadrunner

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 05:26:58 PM »

I'm looking forward to how this turns out, I have a vintage cruiser that needs attention which looks similar style as yours (although hull is a deep v) be interesting to see what you have done maybe give me some ideas on things i can do to mine, when it comes to all things vintage without seeing others like them or at least seeing roughly how she looked its very hard to tell what will look good on the model.

Keep it up  :-))
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2011, 12:39:37 PM »

OK, so I went to 3 cell LIPO (11.1) as the 2 cell was just a nice speed with nothing in reserve, the LX-1 speed control had it's BEC disabled and was rated to 10V, thought it was going to be OK, but no, they really meant 10V! after a couple of minuites, the speed control locked full astern with smoke drifting from the currently roken windows on the boat. DOH! I could slow the oat down by putting in in forward, but as far as I can see I was just shorting out the reverse, could have been prety bad, especially with a LIPO pack in!

Anyway Ive now upgraded to a Mtroniks Marine 25, which will get it's full test this weekend, should be alot etter as it's got a much higher PWM frequency and generally much more modern.
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 12:11:23 PM »

Well Ive just had the boat on the water, with the 3 cell LiPo it draws about 9A full ahead, so thats about 110W on a fully charged pack.
Runs very well, with about 3/4 throttle.
The new Mtroniks ESC is working well with no noticeable heat, only issue I have here, and I suspect it is with my flysky 2.4GHz setup, rather than the ESC, is that the neutral position changes slightly each power-cycle; so the motor buzzes slightly when in neutral unless you reset-up the ESC. I'll try opening up the neutral window on the tx and see if that solves the issue.

I'm running a 10Ah pack, so have a good run time but the downside of this is when running at full throttle for long periods (yes I did today  :D) the motor gets quite warm, after about 25mins the windings of the motor were at about 130'C case 50'C, so I think I'll add some sort of cooling to this.
I'll probably go passive first, add a fan if necessary, then water cooled if it's still getting warm, but I'd rather not drill another hole in the hull.

I have a photo from the Holtcraft web pages which was taken at the Droitwich Model Boat Club meet when the speed control went up in smoke  <:(



The build progresses.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 01:42:40 PM »

Those older wooden designs are far more attractive than the plastic bathtubs turned out today. Lots of character.

A very nice looking model.

Colin
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 02:49:09 PM »

Thanks again for the kind words Colin, it does look good on the water, that's for definite.
Deck and cabin in the next month or so hopefully, then she'll be near enough finished.
Jon
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roycv

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2011, 05:01:54 PM »

Hi, well done always nice to see a model boat back on the water, very nice job.
regards Roy
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biggus ditchus

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 10:05:37 PM »

Fantastic job fella, looks amazing.
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boaterbill

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2011, 02:51:30 AM »

A great find you have there; she's got very nice lines, and I like the things that you have done to her, especially eliminating the blue stripe on her bow
Bill
USA
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Circlip

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2011, 09:49:35 AM »

Those older wooden designs are far more attractive than the plastic bathtubs turned out today.


  And the plans for most of them are still available.

  Regards  Ian.
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Edward Pinniger

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2011, 05:52:37 PM »

Not sure why I didn't spot this thread before - your model looks beautiful on the water, you've certainly made a very good job of restoring it from its previous very tatty state! Any chance of seeing some more photos of the finished model?
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turbinecol

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2011, 09:04:30 AM »

Superb work, looks terrific on the water. Thanks for posting.
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 11:17:01 AM »

Right, I'm still working on this, yes STILL!!!

I'm having motor/prop problems. I've just managed to pop my mtroniks Marine 20 (thought they were supposed to be indestructible!) and need to re look at the motor and prop size.

Would any one have any experience with non planing motor launches of this size?
Currently gone back to the 500 can size motor, but think I need a smaller prop than the 2 1/8" that I have at the moment.

Looking for suggestions on prop size, blades, pitch and RPM, so I may get this running efficiently for once.

My 700 can motor was running at about 6k RPM, with the 2 1/8" prop, and ran well, but current draw on that batteries was higher than I think it should have been (~15-18A)
When I had the 500 can in originally the prop was loading it too much and dropping the revs so the motor was getting warm, sorry HOT! (180'C on the armature!) hence me trying the 700 can.

Any comments? preferably helpful!

Thanks
Jon
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gregk9

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2012, 11:22:32 AM »

Westbourne models do a nice 555 motor, plenty of torque. I run two of these in my graupner Salina, with 35mm 3 blade props and it move s a treat. it might be just the "slight upgrade" you need.......
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2012, 11:54:52 AM »

I was thinking of trying a 35mm (low pitch) prop with the 500 can I have, looking at the 555 it's about 1333rpm/volt, mine is about 1000rpm/volt, so it's about similar.
So may try the prop first then go for the motor change later if it still doesn't work.
I've got a standard Traxas stock motor (27 turn) I could try too, but I think the revs will be too high on that.

I'm currently running 6.6V LiPo.
What voltage are you running the 555's on?
Regards
Jon
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thelegos

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 02:48:45 PM »

If the Traxxas is an RC car motor it's likely to be too high revving, I'd pass on that one. I run a number of similar sized vintage boats on Graupner speed 600 7.2 with 35mm two blade props on 7.2 and 8.4 NiMh and it's a formula that works well for me. Don't buy one of the cheap 500s that come up on ebay for £3.95 etc. The Graupners and the 555 as mentioned earlier are good motors to start from  :-))

Roger
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 03:24:23 PM »

Thanks for that thelegos, I'll order a 35m prop and go from there.
Yes Graupner motors are worth the money, the nobrand 500's do tend to be a little shoddy.
Thanks
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Nordlys

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2014, 08:30:39 AM »

Hi,
I know this is a very old post but was wondering if you have finished the Tarpon
and are able to post any more photo's of this interesting model.
Assuming you still post here?
N
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Jon

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2014, 12:14:19 PM »

By chance I just happened to login today after going to the boat club.
I must admit Ive not managed to do much with my models for the last 18moths or so, but hopefully am back on the case now.

I do need to sort out a new power train for the tarpon, currently the motor/prop combo is just wrong; I get an acceptable speed, but I'm loading the motor too much and so heat is becoming an issue.

I think I need a larger can motor, prob a 600, but need to work out some numbers (if possible) before I buy anything.
Can anyone make any suggestions for prop/motor/voltage for a craft of this type.
I'll get some measurements/weights to help soon.

Rgds
Jon
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Nordlys

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Re: My First Rebuild – Vintage Cabin Cruiser
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2014, 12:38:08 PM »

That's fortunate to see my post after so long  - good!
I have a Tarpon tucked away in my loft - been there for a couple years now waiting to be
worked on that's how I became interested in your post and pictures.
At a length of around 36" I believe.
I would expect to use a 600 - 700 motor on this model, as I do on most boats of that size.
8.4 or 9.6volt Nimh. With rpm at between 12000 & 15000 as a guide.
The propeller size is the fussy bit.
Big doesn't always mean faster, but can mean the motor gets pretty hot shifting too much
water.
I find that around a 40mm size, 2 blade prop moves the boat well.

You could even consider, or better still try a 3 blade.

Mtronkis Vision motors are one suggested make as Graupner motors not easy to obtain
now.
I shall look out for more photo's if you recommence working on her.
Regards
Nordlys.
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