Model Boat Mayhem

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length.
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING  (Read 2936 times)

nhp651

  • Guest
SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« on: May 24, 2011, 10:12:57 pm »

a point has just been raised on the wicksteed thread, and rather than hijack that thread with an ensuing discussion,
can all you fresh water sailers tell me what you don't like about sailing salt water.......and please be honest........only comment if you HAVE sailed salt water.

from what i hear, you consider it corrosive to your gear.
i have been sailing salt water for 50 years now, and the only corrosion i have ever found is to external wiring to lighting etc, but never to running gear.
i could also point out that most of you sail in much more corrosive waters due to acid rain and pollutants from other scources  in so called "FRESH" water than ever you would find in good freshly churned salt water.

the lads who sail their ICE boats at fleetwood, using the lake as cooling water never seem to have problems with their boats.

or is it just an urban myth that freshies havebeen long afraid of. O0 O0 O0 O0

neil.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,946
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2011, 10:24:44 pm »

I sailed three of my models at Portsmouth canoe lake last year forgetting it was saltwater. When I belatedly realised three months later, I checked the boats and found that on one the brass portholes had suffered significant corrosion and another boat had developed corrosion on the propshafts. The other two were OK, probably because the shafts and tubes were well greased.

So yes, salt water can damage your model but if you wash it down immediately afterwards with freshwater and ensure that there is plenty of oil/grease in the prop tubes then you are unlikely to suffer from problems. Still probably best to withdraw the shafts though.

The other potential problem is that if water gets on deck then it can leave unsightly salt deposits, so again, best to rinse it off after sailing.

If your boat sinks in freshwater then there is a good chance that the electrics/electronics will be OK when dried out. If it sinks in saltwater then they will almost certainly be kaput!

Colin
Logged

andyn

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2011, 10:34:49 pm »

Scoop told me a while back the best thing to flush watercooling systems with is Coke... The drinking kind...
Logged

exvtop

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 10:43:17 pm »

Quote
Scoop told me a while back the best thing to flush watercooling systems with is Coke... The drinking kind...

Because it contains phosphoric acid? - which is sometimes used as a solder flux!

Mike
Logged

triumphjon

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 11:13:15 pm »

i now only sail in salt water , taking suitable precautions by using stainless steel or brass nuts & bolts throughout my models , my propshafts are also stainless 7 kept oiled or greased , as for the electronic bits , servos are sealed with silicon around the cases & my rx in a balloon , a couple of models have been swamped but ive not lost any of my gear !
Logged

omra85

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 11:31:25 pm »

I've raced in both and prefer fresh water as salt water takes a bit more washing off but it does not effect the racing, certainly in a saltwater lake.
With IC, the main problem is the cooling system. The salt, if left will (within a matter of days) start to corrode aluminium and discolour brass.
We used to carry a gallon of fresh water, then after the race, squirt at least a pint through the engine and another pint through the exhaust cooling system.
The remainder was sloshed liberally all over the boat, paying special attention to the transom area. I then used to squirt a goodly amount of WD40 over all metal and through the engine head (to stop the head bolts seizing.
This stopped most of the damage, but I still had to remove the head when I got home where I would invariably find a lovely white gel like substance forming in the water jacket (I think this is why "Coke" is used by some, as a neutralising agent)!
As long as you are prepared for it, there's no difficulty running in saltwater.

The only advantage (?) with salt water is that the boat is more buoyant - therefore goes faster  O0 ;)

Cheers
Danny
 
Logged

nhp651

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 11:40:04 pm »

good explanation there danny...many thanks.
neil.

and to think.......i now drink coke instead of beer thinking it was doing me more good.................back to a pint of RUDDLES OR BRAKSPEARES for me, lol %% %% %% %% %% %% %%
Logged

omra85

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 11:45:02 pm »

You have Ruddles!!!!!   No contest!!  I'm on my way  {-) {-) {-)

Cheers
Danny
Logged

Trooper63

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2011, 01:53:33 am »


The only advantage (?) with salt water is that the boat is more buoyant - therefore goes faster  O0 ;)


Ah but the increased buoyancy is caused by ?????? which would increase the frictional forces.  So nature has a way of making things equal.  Less boat in the water but higher resistance to movement.
Logged

Peter Fitness

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,012
  • Location: Wyrallah, near Lismore NSW Australia
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2011, 05:49:23 am »

Our club's lake is salt water, so I sail in it all the time. However, as Neil and Colin both said, it is vital to wash down thoroughly after each outing.

Colin, our one and only lady member had her Billing Banckert tug rammed and sunk in 2 metres of salt water, but she immediately dived in and retrieved it (she scored 9.5s across the board from the judges for her dive  {-) ). All the electronic components were quickly removed, flushed with salt water and laid out in the (hot) sun to dry. The only casualties were the dry cell batteries for the receiver, everything else was back in use by the next sailing day, 2 weeks later. I think that the main reason for success was the quick action. One of our members is in the electronics industry, and it was he who took the decisive action. He actually soaked the receiver in fresh water for about 30 minutes before allowing it to dry in the sun.

Peter.
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,946
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 08:16:49 am »

Peter,

Yes, I agree it was almost certainly the quick action and rinsing to get the salt off that saved the day. Mind you, people over here are not quite so keen to jump in and risk getting Weill's disease coupled with hypothermia!

Colin
Logged

nhp651

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 08:33:10 am »

Peter,

Yes, I agree it was almost certainly the quick action and rinsing to get the salt off that saved the day. Mind you, people over here are not quite so keen to jump in and risk getting Weill's disease coupled with hypothermia!

Colin

YOU don't get weill's desease in salt water colin..a) rats don't like swimming in salt....takes all the oil from their fur, and b) the salt kills the desease,  {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Logged

Colin Bishop

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10,946
  • Location: SW Surrey, UK
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 08:53:04 am »

I was talking generally Neil... But of course in salt water there's a risk of sharks, jellyfish - and in Oz, saltwater crokkledials.... ok2

Colin
Logged

nhp651

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 10:06:15 am »

every thing in OZ is dangeroos colin.......even the women, lol {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
Logged

Peter Fitness

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7,012
  • Location: Wyrallah, near Lismore NSW Australia
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 11:30:41 pm »

There are no crocodiles down our way..........the sharks ate them all {-)

Peter.
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,787
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2011, 10:47:49 am »

Normal cleaning and servicing just keep things running.  Care is needed with choice of materials.  Where you have two different metals + salt water, electrolytic corrosion will happen.  I found out about that with my first attempts at prop shaft making using stuff from the KS metals bar in the hobby shop (ali tubing, brass rod, corrosion welded after a few months).  The main wear and tear happens from the suspended silt in the water, this is more a function of the pool construction that the type of water.
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

nhp651

  • Guest
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 12:41:34 pm »

Normal cleaning and servicing just keep things running.  Care is needed with choice of materials.  Where you have two different metals + salt water, electrolytic corrosion will happen.  I found out about that with my first attempts at prop shaft making using stuff from the KS metals bar in the hobby shop (ali tubing, brass rod, corrosion welded after a few months).  The main wear and tear happens from the suspended silt in the water, this is more a function of the pool construction that the type of water.

it's called natural weathering malcom......lol {-) {-) {-)
Logged

malcolmfrary

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5,787
  • Location: Blackpool, Lancs, UK
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2011, 04:44:39 pm »

Yes, my Snowberry deck is a paler shade of whatever I painted it with due to the layer of honourably got salt, and the anchor chains are genuinely rusty, despite several shots of Kurust and similar.  After about 5 years, and about 500 real miles, the propshaft did need changing.  The bearings were OK, the shaft was worn. I put this down to the silt rather than the salt.  The subsequent 5 years have not seen quite as much use (other "favourites), so it might be some time before the next change.
Whether the water is salt, fresh or something in between, its always best to keep it on the outside.  That's experience talking.
A few years ago, a guy who was a member while he spent a year in the grim north reckoned that it wasn't a proper sailing session if there was no water in the ships boat.  This was a Bristol Channel cutter, and the lifeboat was in the centre of the deck.
A thought about real ships in salt water - don't they get fitted with sacrificial anodes to prevent or reduce corrosion?
Logged
"With the right tool, you can break anything" - Garfield

polaris

  • Shipmate
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2011, 04:30:48 pm »


Dear All,

There is not much I can really add that hasn't been said already, apart, that is, from passing on sound advice I was given a couple of years ago.

Greasing of shafts: obvious, and I was advised to strip down shaftsclean, and re-grease after salt water.

As to superstructure and fittings. All my vessels have been thoroughly silk finish lacquered. I must sail mine on peat waters and some are acidic (so much so that there are no fish in a couple of them) - varies lake by lake. So, bear in mind, just because it is fresh water and not salt, the water might be just as damaging... but in a different way (peat/highland ground anyway).

Regards, Bernard
Logged

JB

  • Full Mayhemer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 525
  • Resting in Drydock.
  • Location: Near Preston
Re: SALT OR FRESH WATER SAILING
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2011, 06:19:50 am »

When I sailed my diesel powered boat at Fleetwood lake in the late sixties it was never thought to be a problem and never even mentioned by my sailing friends or the other club members, as far as I can remember.

Some did use plastic boxes to keep the water out in their smaller boats but so did the chaps from other clubs with fresh water lakes.

I didn't have radio gear installed in my boat which was ‘free running’ but I had saved up and bought a 2 channel set ready to fit in the model, no one advised me to protect the RX etc against the salt water and I know not many others bothered, I didn't have the chance to find out unfortunately as my ‘driver’ discovered girls…!

After flying planes for a number of years I have seen the wire corrosion from leaving gear in damp sheds and garages, other peoples that is…I have always stored mine indoors.

It’s a question which I now have to consider, I’m about to restart boating and its possible I’ll use the salt water lake at Fleetwood…
Bottom line is…I don’t believe it… {-)

J.     
Logged
XJ6 - Powered by Jaguar   JB - Powered by Model Boat Mayhem - Currently On sabattical (forced-unpaid!)
Pages: [1]   Go Up