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Author Topic: Speed controler  (Read 3941 times)

Peewee

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Speed controler
« on: June 06, 2011, 10:29:59 AM »

Hi,

From modeling warships there has always been an issue with turning circles.  My S-Class is similar in dimensions as its long, thin and twin screw.  My question is has anybody used the following product to increase the maneuverability?

Page 5 set up.
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/P94.pdf

Regards
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Ian
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Subculture

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2011, 10:38:01 AM »

A modeller in the U.S who built this S-class up fitted a detachable front rudder made from Lexan (so invisible in water). Worked well apparently.

Peewee

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2011, 10:57:01 AM »

intresting, i have seen this on paddleboats
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Ian
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Roadrunner

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2011, 11:00:00 AM »

The P94 is a cracking bit of kit and will indeed help with turning as the mixer function between the motors can be adjusted to slow one motor depending on the turn, it also has other modes for tank steering which would give you the ability to turn on the spot.

There is nothing wrong with the 'lexan' rudder extension which would also aid your turn but if you don't want to mod your rudders then this is a good alternative, be sure you are able to fit the esc in your WTC as the heat sinks are tall.

Depending on what esc's you have it may also be worth looking for simple mixers (ACTion do a mixer for duel esc's separably) and Mtronics also do a V Tail mixer which will do a similar job, but i believe its set to give 50% 100% on the motors rather then have any adjustment, the mixers just plug in between the esc and rudder, the mtronics V Tail is a very small unit where as the Action is a bit more bulky, depending on your space will really dictate which one you can fit.
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Subculture

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2011, 11:56:51 AM »

Independent control of the motors might not be as effective as hoped, some modellers have tried this on similar boats with less than impressive results. Perhaps this is due to the closer spacing of the props?

An additional thing you could try is a rudder extension piece.

DickyD

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2011, 11:58:37 AM »

I have a couple of P94s, one in a tug and another in a warship. Both boats can spin on their axis.

It is an excellent bit of kit with 4 different modes.

It also has the speed controllers included in it.

Use in conjunction with P92 power distribution board and the P95/2 twin indicator fuse board does away with the need for separate batteries for the receiver as the P92 includes a BEC.
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Davy1

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2011, 04:01:22 PM »

I have recently completed my first sub with twin screws ( The "Dzik" U upvc class!) and I have been trying to do "turning in on own length" with the sort of setup you describe. (Most recently at Alfold this weekend.)

Results are very poor, I would say. I think there is an inherent difficulty with submarines because they are very long  and thin and the props are so close together.

The turning circle under way is excellent with this sub but I will persevere with some more trials before I  perhaps go back to just a single Mtronik speed controller.

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trevor v

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2011, 06:08:30 PM »

Hi,My engeel U177 is fitted with  2 ESC and a  twin stick F14 and with full astern on one motor and full ahead on the other it will turn in its own length but very very slowly.But it greatly helps in its turning circle.Instead of 25 feet down to 8 to 12 feet.
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Davy1

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2011, 06:36:20 PM »

That's interesting to know.
I will continue with my experiments!
Thanks.
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Peewee

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2011, 07:12:01 PM »

if it works in a 6ft frigate of mine then it should work for a sub, albeit less affectively as the props are closer as you have said.  its more in the forwards motion i am looking at rather than in its own length.  but anything that helps has got to be good.
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Ian
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Davy1

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2011, 09:41:27 AM »

Yes, I think that is right. A good point. I will also try the mixing whilst the boat is underway and see the effect.
Turning circle is not a problem on this model but it is a  common difficulty with subs particulary when you need to operate them in small pools or exhibition pools.
Having 2 rather than 1 speed controller (I'm using the transmitter mixer) is not a high price!
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Albion

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2011, 04:40:20 AM »

Yes, I think that is right. A good point. I will also try the mixing whilst the boat is underway and see the effect.
Turning circle is not a problem on this model but it is a  common difficulty with subs particulary when you need to operate them in small pools or exhibition pools.
Having 2 rather than 1 speed controller (I'm using the transmitter mixer) is not a high price!
I understand that if the shafts are not parallel it wont work, but i dont have practical experience of this
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REDDEVIL

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2011, 07:43:32 AM »

As you say, the problem is that shafts are too close in this class of subs. Of course in forward reducing speed in one shaft will greatly reduce turning radius, but starting from dead in water, making an "on position" turning may be quite difficult and slow. For Reducing turning radius I've tried "lexan" extension of rudders and have worked nicely (on 1/144 SEAWOLF and 1/96 AKULA II). I also have a 1/50 supply ship made from scratch, with twin rudders and shafts and bow thruster: Of course this boy not only turns "on a dime", also can be moved sidewards, cause propellers and rudders are considerably more separated than in a sub and "torque" is much bigger. Also consider that props and rudders are deeper in a ship than in a surfaced sub, and that also affects their effectivity in manoeuver.  My proffesional experience (10 years in merchant marine, two of them as Captain) has taught me that turning over the axis starting from dead in water is almost impossible if you don't have, at least, double and well separated shafts and rudders (and calm weather, cause wind also affects evolutions).
Regards.
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typhoon924

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2011, 01:35:02 PM »

Hi I use thier mixer on My typhoon which is very long and wide, it has gievn me an improved turning circle, and seems so far to work well.
With the rudder hard over and the throttle at a certain point one prop runs forward the other in reverse, pushing her round smartly.

I am pleased with it

R
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Davy1

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2011, 01:37:41 PM »

Thanks Reddevil and Typhoon for the interesting comments and (full size) observations.

I will try the mix whilst underway next time at the Barrow pond.

David
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Davy1

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2011, 12:32:05 PM »

As promised, some video of the turning trials using the transmitter mixing for the speed controllers. My ORP Dzik running in nice weather yesterday on the Furness MBC pond at Barrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy7Wxdo13bs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQfYg0AbKAU

It works quite adequately , in my opinion, despite my initial reservations. It is useful both when stopped and underway (Thanks to TrevorV and Typhoon for the suggestion.)

Thanks for the discussion chaps - I will be keeping my 2 speed controllers! Putting the rudder over helps in stationery turns, it seems.

(Some background, sub is 42 inches long and prop blades are only 0.5 inches apart. Driven by 2 x 385s from 2 Mtronic speed controllers.)

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Peewee

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Re: Speed controler
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2011, 01:20:04 PM »

Excellent Videos and commentry Davy1, I think that there is nothing to loose in doing this in the S boat.  it may not be as affective as yours being 82 inches but i will take any assistance in turning her.
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Ian
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