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[treeboa]

Right guys, here's a problem I cant figureout....

Basically this `boat` hull is fully sealed, so opening it is a pain, let me set out the details, the boat is a cat hulled bait boat, its driven via a pair of graupner 2345 water jets, the motors are mtronics 400`s ( i don't need speed) it has a pair of viper speed controllers, the battery is a self made 5ah 7.2,v pack, three cells in each hull, the radio is a planet 5, I'm using the becs system off one of the esc`s, there's no mixer on it as she's driven like a tank, 1 stick per motor, the esc`s are isolated via a two way on/on switch so i can charge the battery while the boats turned off

so now the problem, happened three times and cost one receiver, fully charged battery, all dry testing done, couple recharges, wet test in the bath, no issues, sealed the hull, gave it a good test and went to bed, following morn turned on, the sight hole i have for the receiver showing no light, checked the batt capacity via the charging jack and its near full, opens hull, checks connections are still on, no probs but receiver dead, i had bonded the receiver in with silicone so damaged it removing the thing, new receiver on order, fits it, does more dry and wet tests, no probs, seals the hull and does a lot more, no probs, a week of tests and no probs, goes the local pond, runs it, absolutely no issues, gives it some high revs, no problems, not fully discharged and comes home, so im happy, puts it on the charger, alarm says full, throws switch to check its running and NOTHING   , checks battery, fully charged, throws the on off switch a few times, nothing, resorts to reopening the hull, no connections off, power feeding the esc`s, all connections on the receiver, the left hand motor and esc is on receiver channel one, it picks up the power for the becs off that esc, pre this it was the opposite esc but assuming the worst, i changed sides, its not being fed off both esc`s, pushes the connections to check, nothing no flash light to say it has power, pulls the lead off channel one and refits and the 'blinking!' receiver now shows it has power !!!!!, if a normal boat this would not be an issue, in a sealed hull it is, anyone any ideas why this is happening and how to stop it causing problems, the receiver's not wet/damaged/faulty, there's no water ingress into any where, its setup the same as my other boat except that ones got a Futaba 40mhz radio in it

[Roadrunner]

err you said its not being powered from BOTH esc BEC right? Did you DISCONNECT the RED wire from ONE of the esc plugs, it don't matter if each esc is plugged into a separate channel or if there connected via a set of y leads or mixer unit for both esc to respond from a single throttle, you still only need one of the red wired from one plug to run the BEC system from 5-6v.

Not saying you did.... but if you did'nt do that then you just fried your receiver by piling 12v through the poor thing!

It might be worth checking if the receiver lights up when connected to only a servo and a 4 cell battery pack (out of the boat) see if its become unbound from its binding, in which case rebind it and see if that solves the issue.

[triumphjon]

not seeing the boat or its actual set up , we can only sumise to your problems , i too use planet radios in all of my models , however on those that use twin motors i disconnect the red wire from each esc servo wire and run my radio from a seperate 4.8 - 6 volt supply . it sounds as if your spiking the receiver while charging the drive battery ?

[treeboa]

the poss and neg sides of the esc`s are isolated via a two pole on/ on switch while shes charging, throw it one way and it feeds the esc`s the other way and it can only chage the batts, yes one red lead has been dissconnected from the esc`s, ive even changed which esc after last time, reciever is not fried as its working after removing the servo/esc lead and refitting it, the issue is the failing to get power untill i remove the lead from the feed esc and then refit it, does not always happen, seems to be after an extended running session

its not unbinding as if it was the reciver would flash, its not, it does not light, like its getting no power at all, opened the hull, dissconected the lead on channel one, reconnected and she works, still binded

i dont have the charger connected when i test the boat, its off and the jack plugs out before i switch over to battery feed

the hull being sealed means a seperate battery pack for the reciever would need a further charge jack, end the day the planet reciever should work on the becs system, jd perkins confiirmed this pre me purchasing the radio gear

if i thought fittiing a second switch to the boat which would switch the red bec lead off and on would cure it i would go down that road

[Roadrunner]

Without a photo of the way its setup i don't think we can help to much more then throw idle speculation at what's going on.
Also as a suggestion since the boat is such a pig to take apart.... why not made a hatch that you can open regularly this way you wont have to keep splitting the boat every time something goes wrong.

oh i will say this though it could be the distance between the esc and receiver that causing an issues, i had a problem with my father club 500 with the 2.4 set would work fine on the bench and once on the water, try again and zip at the lake and then it became very fussy about turning on, turned out the ESC (mtronics) don;t always like 2.4 recivers and will keep there fail safe on as its not receiving a signal from the tx.. problem resolved by moving the receiver 200mm from the esc!

[treeboa]

now that coud answer it, though i cant locate it that far away though
its a cat hull, just on 2foot long

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/treeboa/boat%20and%20rc/2011-05-10222631.jpg  basic layout, reciever sits in the center bar at the rear of the hull, esc`s are on the inner walls at the front on each side of the hulls, only diff with it is the lead acid test batts are out, wirings tidy and it carries the switch and charging jack

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/treeboa/boat%20and%20rc/2011-05-10222309.jpg, as ready for the water, when those side hoppers are full of bait she sits low in the water, hence the need for total watersealing, and no hatches

[triumphjon]

as a test can you not try and remove the thin red leads from both servo input plugs on the escs & run a seperate rx feed ?  this could also isolate the fail safe in the esc

[Roadrunner]

It would work as a test but if that solved the issue then hes got no choice but to keep a permant power sorce there.

As a solution if the reciver being to close is the question.... purchase two servo lead extension cables from marksmodelbits.co.uk and plug each esc into an extension and move the receiver as far away as possible and get the Ariel lead pointing upwards 2.4 hates being submerged below the water line as the signal has a real hard time in penetrating the water surface. 

before spending any money....

Test the setup by changing the receiver and tx with a 40mhz or 27mhz set and see if any issues occur using that system, i did that as first point of call when doing the club 500 which instantly resolved the problem so i knew it wasn't his hap hazard wiring, when it worked fine ( constantly) i knew that the receiver was the fault and it came down to trial and error of moving the receiver about until it worked right. Finally got it but it took most of a day to work that out!

[treeboa]

while the reciever was away being checked out for problems, i fitted the 40 mhz spare reciever i have and used my other radio, i could not get the boat to repeat the problem and i really hammered the system to try to replicate the fault, new reciever arrived and till today no problems, took it out, give it a hammering and once home and recharged the reciever went into dumb mode, or as you say the failsafe causes it

trouble is because this hull without the top on sits 1/2 inch above the water i cant take a lot of chances with it, deff not give it any poke power wise or it will sink, so it means sealing the hull

[Roadrunner]

There in lies some of your issues there with its depth... but thats down to the LA battery you have stuck in the thing  to heavy... try some 7.2v nihm battery's (lighter) and move that receiver higher keeping the 'tail' as high as possible. 

[treeboa]

ha no, shes not got the la`s in there now, its got a self made 5ah 7.2volt nihm, 3 cells a side, the top hull extends the sides by a good inch and the airel lead is well above the water, tails on the `lid` , this has got to be an electrical glitch as in failsafe which does make sense, allthough the options it seems are not easy as im near as far back away from the esc`s as i can go or forget the 2.4 system and heave in one of my 40mhz rx`s

[Roadrunner]

lol you keep pm me then type on here like having a 3 way convo... Try a Glitch module from mtronics, i know them little suckers work fine just make sure you get the ones that work in-line with the BEC and not the ones that require there own power!!

[treeboa]

much obliged, will give the help line a call next week , then decide if it stays out and the 40 system gets used instead

[Roadrunner]

  try that but im sure they will fob you off with some rubbish, go with a 40mhz system its fool proof until mtronics sort there issues out with 2.4 systems.

Can i sleep now? its 1:30 am ! 

[treeboa]

its now 12:19, i hope you have slept  , will post on the thread what they reply via email

[Roadrunner]

lol gave up sleeping after a fight broke out outside my house last night at 2:30 great fun to watch two drunks pundle each other, but was more fun to watch last standing drunk take on 2 coppers and beat them with there own wacky sticks but then was even more entertaining watching him try to take on the next 6 that turned up! i swear i saw some police brutality but great fun!

 

[treeboa]

better than the telly then  , i live on the crawl between the pub and the rugby club, see some wonderfull sights, specially when theres a gang of girls, fun earlier in the year when two decided it was too hot and stripped off naked-i was very tempted to offer them a cuppa 

[treeboa]

well the 2.4 systems out and been replaced with a 40mhz, not willing to take the possible problems that could come from the boat going out of range and then getting back in range only to find the rx does the same again

[Sub driver]

treeboa.  if i may offer some advice in your very first post you say you bonded the receiver in with silicone major huge mistake the silicone when curing gives off acid fumes that will turn brass green and eat and kill any electronic circuit boards . thats why it smells like vinegar . have you ever tried breathing the fumes in by mistake after applying silicone in small space after it has been curing for a while. the silicone fumes will coat and eat the contacts and electronics that may be the issue as it will take a while to do this. hope this is of use.

[treeboa]

hi, yes im aware of the `asetic ?` acid effect, the bonding was a knob of silicone the reciever pushed onto it, as you say wonderfull stuff in a confined space  , when i bonded the reciever in i left the hulls apart for a day so hopefully any fumes would have been negligable around it

[treeboa]

right been on the phone, mtroniks say no no not our speed controllers, its a problem with the reciever, in thier mind the fact three recievers show same problem confirms this, so rang jd perkins, the distrib for the planet radios, explained the same and they say no if the recievers fail they fail, the issue to thier mind is down to the speed controllers, so in essence niether are willing to to accept responsibility,  one thing that was offered from mtroniks was as i had found removing and then replacing the header that carries the bec supply if i switched that then the problem would cure, this to me smacks of a get out of jail card, im wondering if the speed controllers have a capacitor in them thats holding power and causing the problem, i mentioned the failsafe and was told catagorically no this could not be the problem

so chaps, be aware, if your using the planet radios and the mtroniks speed controllers and the same happens, remove and replace the lead that has the bec supply still attached, for me it means the 40mhz system is staying in the baitboats, i will be using the 2.4 radio i have in a couple of normal rc boats and one of my rc tanks

[Roadrunner]

Sound like bull to me bud, but i'm sure i said they would say something like that or blame each other.
ah well let us know if the 40mhz system works out.. try testing it before you put the lid back on! 

[treeboa]

oh its going to be bath tested and tested, and tested, be worn out before it gets used in anger 

[triumphjon]

having had three receivers with the same fault would seem a little odd ,however m troniks did have a batch of rouge escs !

[Rottweiler]

I'm so pleased with my planet 5, I have bought 3 extra receivers, 2 of which have been installed,so 3 all told. 2 of these have two mtroniks speed controllers (twin motors) and having cut the bec lead,they tuned in perfectly,without going through the infamous mtronics flashing lights procedure. All 3 boats have been tried and tested on the lake,and I have had no trouble whatever,either with performance or range. I use Velcro to fasten my receivers to the boat,but don't rely on the sticky patch provided, I just add a dab of superglue. Good luck with your experiences! Now putting in the return spring was a different kettle of fish,especially with no instructions, and none available from the distributor either. I gave up after 45 minutes or so, but a mate did it for me in less than 10 minutes.