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Author Topic: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?  (Read 3950 times)

Roadrunner

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Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« on: June 24, 2011, 09:19:47 AM »

The question is not quite as the title says...

A while back (about a year now) i nearly tempted fait and brought a fast electric ARTR kit... needless to say it never happened in the end due to other commitments, and a few phobias with Li-pos'.
So in a change of mind recently... I decided to import the Delta Force 26" hull from offshore electrics...once its here i will do a build log on putting it together from a FE noob's point of view this is not a ARTR kit its being built from the hull up.
Now while i wait for it to arrive, i have a few questions that need answering as some of the answers i've heard are not really answers more along the line of statements of what i SHOULD do but no real explanation as to why it should be done like that.

So here's my first questions on surface drives.

Strut or stinger, which one and why?

Rudder Offset, i need to know why these are recommended over a 'in line strut rudder' (that's rudder directly behind the prop for other noobies), other then that 'in lines' cause drag, my arguing point with those is yes they may cause drag, but to what extent is is noticeable & if thats the case why do many single proped CATs run with with them and not have offsets, or is it down to personal choice, hull design?

Sizes of stingers, struts and rudders, what it a recommended length from transom of these drives? There are several available ranging from very short 40mm lengths, up to 150mm so what is recommended for the mid size boat and why?

All help is appreciated, but please explain your answers and not just make statements such as 'its like that cos it is' or 'that's 'the way I've always done it' as they really don't help me or others learn the reasons behind these item's and there uses.

Many Thanks RR
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martno1fan

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2011, 09:31:43 AM »

You will find for the most part the only boats that run inline strudder setups are rtr ones although they work well for sports use for top speed they cause funny handling issues so not ideal for racing i wouldnt think.Struts or stingers ? personal choice,both work well.
Mart
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Roadrunner

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2011, 09:43:20 AM »

My original thinking was that the rudder offset being on the right traditionally was to do with the way they are used racing as only going clockwise around the track meaning the rudder is more in the water while its banked over keeping it stable during the turn, or is that more the turn fins being used as the pivot point which really dose that?

I think i understand what you mean in regards to handling issues, but just to be clear on a mono the hull is more likely to skid about, rock side to side, that manner of instability, unlike a CAT where there is more hull (wider) which helps stability and higher speeds, however is that more to do with the force put on the rudder from the prop with mono's meaning that the thrust the prop generates is being split by the rudder unequally causing the instability where as the a Cat can counter this with its hulls width being it cannot rock about given its design?

Thanks Martno1
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scoop

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2011, 09:49:41 AM »

You will find for the most part the only boats that run inline strudder setups are rtr ones although they work well for sports use for top speed they cause funny handling issues so not ideal for racing i wouldnt think.Struts or stingers ? personal choice,both work well.
Mart
Got to agree with you there Mart, many, many moons ago (I'm getting old now  O0 ) I ran a JB Marine (now there's a name from the past) Volante and a Hypercat, both running 8.4v Graupner 700 bb turbo motors using 14 cells, they were extremely quick in those days and both handled very well, the Hypercat was ballistic and it never flipped over once in all the time I had it (wish I hadn't sold it now  :(( ) both the Volante and Hypercat ran off set rudders on the starboard side of the transom. The handling issues with inline rudders mainly happen with the high speeds associated with pure bred racing hulls, as you turn the rudder the thrust becomes onesided (mainly to the left or right depends which direction the boat is turning) to an extent, this destabilises the hull resulting in a serious twitching moment or a rollover, trim tabs and turnfins help to neutralise this effect, but again it depends on the speed, there's only one throttle position....and that's full on !  :} %) {-)

Regards
Scoop
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Roadrunner

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2011, 10:04:49 AM »

Well those answers do answer my question in regards to struts or stingers and rudder positions, so really what about sizes of these drives, what is recommended for a 26" hull, im under the impression of drives in-between the 95-100mm in length would that be accurate, or should i be looking at 40-65mm sets?

I am open to suggestions of these parts if you wish.
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scoop

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2011, 11:53:45 AM »

Well those answers do answer my question in regards to struts or stingers and rudder positions, so really what about sizes of these drives, what is recommended for a 26" hull, im under the impression of drives in-between the 95-100mm in length would that be accurate, or should i be looking at 40-65mm sets?

I am open to suggestions of these parts if you wish.
I can't remember the exact length of the strut on my Volante but it was in the region of 100mm, with a deep rudder, the set up on the Hypercat used a very short strut (approx 40 mm) running sub-surface drive and a medium length rudder.

Regards
Scoop
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w3bby

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2011, 02:04:32 PM »

I know this will sound like a cop out but my first instinct would be to ask Offshore Electrics what they recommend for the hull.

Having said that I find that a strut can allow greater flexibility when it comes to setting up the hull, greater range of movement without having to slot holes etc.

Roadrunner

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2011, 05:01:15 PM »

Well i took your advice and looked at what offshore had to offer in the way of running gear, outcome... not a lot on offer to start with with no real range to pick from dos'nt give me that flexibility of choice (its that or nothing basically) so going to stick with uk suppliers. Anyone know any others apart from prestwich & Astec?
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Roadrunner

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2011, 05:19:39 PM »

ok so here's what i've come up with so any suggestions about these parts are welcome...

http://www.prestwich.ndirect.co.uk/fastelectrics.htm

Product EM60  ''Complete Surface Drive Flexi-shaft assembly for Surface for dog drive 3/16 and 4mm bore props (supplied with 4mm to 3/16 adapter tube) with 4mm flexishaft for 540/700 size motors and similar brushless and .12/.15 nitro. Suitable for Hydro's, Deep Vís and Catamarans. Contains 4mm Flexi-shaft with 4mm stainless steel stub-shaft, drive dog, PTFE teflon tube, strut with lead/teflon bushes, brackets and all nuts, bolts needed. Flexi and stub is 310mm long but can be cut down to length.
Longer lengths can be supplied''

or the smaller... EM60A

Same setup as EM60 but with 3.2mm flexi cable and stub shaft reduced to 1/8" (3.2mm) for smaller dog drive props..

and probably the HF46 Medium rudder ''Built in waterscoop, highly polished CNC machined aluminium. Medium rudder assembly with 130mm (5") long rudder blade.''

See i can look at this all day and still not really make a decision having no experience with this stuff or what is best suited for the type of boat.  :((
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scoop

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2011, 08:45:22 AM »

Well i took your advice and looked at what offshore had to offer in the way of running gear, outcome... not a lot on offer to start with with no real range to pick from dos'nt give me that flexibility of choice (its that or nothing basically) so going to stick with uk suppliers. Anyone know any others apart from prestwich & Astec?
You really need to speak to the guys at www.astecmodels.co.uk run by Alan Shillito or it was the last time I contacted them for some stuff, what they don't know about fast electrics ain't worth knowing  :-))
Scoop
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Roadrunner

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Re: Mono 1 Delta Force Setup?
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2011, 05:59:19 PM »

Thanks scoop i will do just that  :-))
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