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Author Topic: Help Save HMS Plymouth  (Read 3679 times)

RickF

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Help Save HMS Plymouth
« on: March 09, 2007, 11:40:17 AM »

Hi Guys,

I'm not sure that these sort of things do any good, but we'll never know unless we try.

HMS Plymouth was saved by the Warship Preservation Trust, which went bust last year. She is the last Type12 Frigate afloat and a veteran of the Falklands War. She deserves preservation.

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/plymouth/#detail

Rick
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chromedome

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2007, 11:50:26 AM »

I would sign it Rick...but they want my home address.. :-\

   chromedome....ex Jupiter
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RickF

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2007, 12:25:52 PM »

Why worry - they already know where you live! In fact, as an ex-Serviceman (like me), they probably know more about you than you know yourself.

Rick
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Marks Model Bits

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2007, 01:09:08 PM »

signed it
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2007, 01:43:48 PM »

Signed it as well. But given the Government's apparent intention to get rid of most of the RN ships currently in service, it seems rather unlikely they'll be very interested in preserving a decommissioned one.  :(
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MCAT

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2007, 04:27:46 PM »

SIGNED IT  hear is hopping she gets saved
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PSSHIPS

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2007, 09:20:37 PM »

We tried everything last year when this happened, the villain at the end of the day is Peel holdings, the PM was petitioned last time, but, nothing happened. we havn't given up here on Merseyside, we just hope one of us wins the Lotto BIG TIME!

 Meanwhile Bronnington is going to rack and ruin and Plym isn't far behind from what we can see from outside the fences, its a shame and it really hurts when we put so much of our spare time into restoring the two of em, we were winning when they closed us down, with the restoration, now if the ships survive this, Bronny will more than likely have to be scrapped and Plym will need some SERIOUS TLC.
 Paul...
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2007, 10:37:44 PM »

That's the problem with preserving ships. Once you stop working on them they go downhill at an alarming rate. This country simply does not appreciate it's maritime heritage anymore.
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007, 06:18:19 PM »

did they find out where the water was comming in from on the P??
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PSSHIPS

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 07:07:17 PM »

Split in weld on waterline where the new bow was welded on way back, some of the decking has gone pourus too, so it comes out of the fwd trim tanks and passes between the cable locker the hull outfit and up into the naval store fwd. It was like that when we left her and yes me and Colin the ex manager found it. Colin now works with us LOL ;)
 As far as I know she is going down slowly by the bow, one weekend we pumped 35 tons of water out of the fwd compartments to the midships fuel bunkers, this is the last big job we did on her, so after just over a year she will be flooded again and getting rather heavy at the bows.
 Paul...
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GLASGOW WARSHIP

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2007, 01:24:00 AM »

its a great shame, that she is going to waste, as when she was based in Glasgow i worked on her and helped when she was moved down south, good days, pity it doesn't look goof for her. :'(
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Shipmate60

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2007, 09:02:04 AM »

Its a shame that Portsmouth Historic Dockyard isnt taking in these ships.
For a Heritage Museum they do seem very selective!!

Bob
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2007, 02:38:21 PM »

sadly, for some reason, if its grey in colour, nobody wants them :(
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2007, 04:13:44 PM »

Probably can't afford rather than want. You can't do very much with a smaller warship except use it as a visitor attraction and in the longer term that isn't enough to cover costs. Portsmouth Historic Dockyard's finances are shaky anyway so they won't want to take on another liability unless it is subsidised in some way. Getting public funding for this sort of thing is just about impossible. The costs of vessels such as the Warrior and Belfast are partly met by using them for functions but ships like Plymouth are too cramped for that sort of thing. Local authorities are too strapped for cash and central government isn't interested. Getting funding out of the Lottery has never been easy for preservation projects and the raid by the government to prop up the Olympics will make it even more difficult. A gloomy prognosis I'm afraid.
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PSSHIPS

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2007, 04:19:41 PM »

For 120 grand, Peel Holding will sell you the Plymouth and the Bronnington, but, then you need a berth, this is the big problem.
 Paul...
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2007, 04:26:02 PM »

historic docks at portsmouth, is that RN owned?

The Plym should be preserved and put on display in London by Belfast, after all she had the honour of holding the surrender of argentina, june 16 1982, she is not just ANY warship but a memorial to those service personel who gave their lives in the conflict.
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2007, 04:31:07 PM »

Parking is always the problem. Not just any old berth will do either - it needs to be accessible for maintenance purposes and public (revenue earning) access so space ashore is needed too. This is what eventually did for the old MV Southsea (along with squabbling about who owned her). Pounds scrapyard gave her a free berth in the Portchester Channel in Portsmouth Harbour but it was a 20 minute boat ride from the nearest shore access which made maintenance very difficult. Of course, as a vessel continues to deteriorate and go rusty nobody wants an eyesore parked on their doorstep so she becomes increasingly difficult to find a home for. Big firms like Peel have a moral responsibility to do something in these circumstances but just shrug it off and the local planners either won't or can't make them do something about it by applying a Section 106 planning gain requirement.

The Portsmouth Historic Dockyard is a separate entity from the RN base and is expected to pay its way.
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Bartapuss

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 06:42:04 PM »

Its a shame that both the boats and U534 couldn't be brought up to Tyneside, as the Neptune ship Yard and the A & P Dock yard closed down years ago and everthing has been flattened, looks like a scene from Hiroshima or Nagasaki, but the dry docks are still there and soon the Swan Hunter yard at Wallsend will go the same way, so there's plenty of space. Surely a new museum up here would be a valued attraction and  bring folks up North and help the local economy.
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Ghost in the shell

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2007, 07:46:41 PM »

Its a shame that both the boats and U534 couldn't be brought up to Tyneside, as the Neptune ship Yard and the A & P Dock yard closed down years ago and everthing has been flattened, looks like a scene from Hiroshima or Nagasaki, but the dry docks are still there and soon the Swan Hunter yard at Wallsend will go the same way, so there's plenty of space. Surely a new museum up here would be a valued attraction and  bring folks up North and help the local economy.

and on the parking issue, a ship yard will have employed loads of workers which would mean a big parking area
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farrow

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2007, 10:17:35 PM »

There are at Chatham dockyard 4 drydocks which open onto the river and are in the heritage section. Two have the old "Gannet" and the other Cavalier, if any you guys have influence put the old bucket there. The big question is where does the maintenance money comes, these old hulls are old and thin shells, trying to keep them afloat is really a no no.
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slewis

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #20 on: March 27, 2007, 10:44:16 PM »

As an ex RN submariner (sceptre) I would love to see these saved as I served in the Falklands myself (not on Sceptre)
But I have to rationalise the cost of keeping these relics in a usable condition . Ok I will admit they have a historic (vaguely) value but if we spend to keep every ship/plane whatever that served us in wartime (and the Falklands was never a war) the country would be bankrupt .

Sorry just my take on it , let them go its history .
If you want to make a thing of this take a rail trip from Birmingham to Plymouth and just before you get there , there is a scrap yard with about 9 submarine hulls lying on top of each other like a stack of cigars . its a piece of metal its served it purpose lets move on .
I know  I know  this piece of metal has historic value as the surrender was done on its decks but be fair , what surrender ? As far as I can remember the surrender was done on the ground and between the 2 governments . I know we suffered losses (As ex RN I should bloody know) but this was NOT and NEVER will be classed as a war.
crush it like the rest of the scrap the government is spending vast amounts on preserving . Its wasted money .


Sorry if this sounds mercenary or hard but its a personal opinion , nothing more nothing less .

Shane
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Colin Bishop

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #21 on: March 27, 2007, 10:53:49 PM »

Shane, that is certainly a point of view but would you recommend scrapping HMS Victory just because she is a pile of wood, very little of which was actually at Trafalgar? I agree that you can't keep everything but ships such as Plymouth were part of our naval heritage and this country is very bad indeed at preserving its maritime history. The class to which Plymouth belongs were a very successful post war class of frigates and it seems little enough to preserve just one ship of this era. The Americans seem to do this sort of thing very much better.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2007, 11:12:53 PM »

I did hear at one point that the Plymouth was going to be accomodated at Plymouth.  A shame that idea has now been shelved and the people of Plymouth do not seem interested in thier namesake anymore.

They all obviously now need to be out of the water on a hard standing, which would then dramatically reduce maintenance costs, and why not use an old dry dock?  That is exactly what has been done with the Great Britain and what I beleive is being proposed for the Cutty Sark so it seems obvious to me to make use of another facet of our dead marine heritage.

When I compare the money being put into the Olympics and the new Wembly stadium it just doesn't add up somehow.  I know they are beneficial to a lot more people and generate income but what could we have done with the money we have thrown at the Dome?
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slewis

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2007, 11:36:44 PM »

Colin I agree there are a lot of ships that should be preserved .
BUT we dont have the same size island as the USA who could probably put our whole fleet now and from ww2 in a dry dock somewhere .
We dont have the space to accomodate everything and whos to say this one is above all the rest ?

I dont know if you served on it or even in the RN but can appreciate the feelings of those who might have (another thumbs up smiley wanted here)

Shane
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Roger in France

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Re: Help Save HMS Plymouth
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2007, 06:28:09 AM »

Hey, be careful what you say about the people of Plymouth.

As a born and bred Plymouthian I remind you that we did our bit in WW2, only being bombed slightly less than Coventry. As a kid, my "play areas" were bombed sites.

In any case, I believe it is foolish to say that one place or city should pay for a national issue. I include Londoners having to pay a large proportion of the cost of the Olympics in that. I actually wanted Paris to win the race to host the Olympics, not so I could attend more easily but because I guessed it would become a huge charge on taxpayers in the UK and Londoners in particular.

Before someone flames me: I pay local taxes in France and Income Tax in the UK!

Roger in France.
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