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Author Topic: London Violence  (Read 16428 times)

dave301bounty

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Liverpool Smithdown .Lodge lane .
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2011, 08:36:14 pm »

This morning ,went to the Asda on Smithdown ,and the crowd that were voluteers ,brushing up ,there were two guys from good old Wallasey ,they had a message and came over pronto ,talking to some of the locals and last night was a very close thing ,with a mob of around 200 trying to get in and get the usual .Thing is ,they were challenge by a very brave fella ,and asked were did they come from ,they went to kill him or so it seems to him  but the message he got and later on  was they came to that store in big cars ,after trying another in Marsh lane ,these situations are scary to say the least ,but it was unfolding about this time last night ,the mob did there damage a bit further down ,and this afternoon there was a disturbance . I Was helping to evacuate the old Park hospital in the ,,81 riots and that was a bad time ,I saw some bad things ,but this has murder on it ,and total destruction ,very sad .
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Colin Bishop

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2011, 08:51:58 pm »

There are some interesting comments on vigilantism.

But if the Police are unable to assist or simply stand by watching, what is the alternative?

people are entitled to protect their safety and property.

Colin
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DickyD

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2011, 09:36:53 pm »

I don't know if you have heard of the e-petition to have anyone on benfits caught rioting
to have all benefits stopped?
apparently if it gets 100,000 signatures it has to be debated in parliment it has 78,000 at present
I tried but apparently due to high demand cant get access
but here is the link

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions?order=desc&sort=count&state=open

Still not working. >>:-(
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Arrow5

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2011, 10:29:28 pm »

There are some interesting comments on vigilantism.

But if the Police are unable to assist or simply stand by watching, what is the alternative?

people are entitled to protect their safety and property.

Colin
  Not if you are a farmer in Norfolk if I remember. >:-o
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Netleyned

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2011, 10:30:35 pm »

Tried just now
'Sorry something went wrong'
HM Government
Too many MPs trying to get refunds on their holidays
has swamped the site  {:-{ {:-{

Ned
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Korky

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2011, 10:49:35 pm »





Yeah...sure....   whatever !

 Jog on Dave !
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Dekan

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2011, 06:46:51 am »

Unfortunately the Police just can't seem to get the right balance between doing nothing or behaving badly  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14482695

After watching this.... would you really want the police service armed..There has been a long line of police over reaction and the usual pathetic cover ups that fool nobody.

The police's accounts of the incident that kicked off the rioting and looting is already starting to look a little suspect.. 
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treeboa

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2011, 09:13:29 am »

if what apparently sparked it all off is correct - the shooting of a man armed with a side arm then as far as im concerned the police were right, he will have been warned by the firearms officer or he was thought to be at the point of using it, end the day the "idoit" chose to walk around with a firearm knowing what could happen,  it was not a toy/potato peeler/over ripe banana, a few years ago the police took out a nutter with a sword, got condemed for it, he was know to be unstable, would the hue n cry have been worse if he decapitated a few before they took him down ??, the other bloody heathern up north east, in my mind they took too long to drop him, dont talk - especially as he had previously proved he would use a firearm, i have a few mates who are ex coppers, all took early retirement because of the way the police service is now run, the motorist is an easy target, for all others they have one hand tied behind thier backs
 as for jail what a laugh, plead guilty and you have half your sentence, if your on tag prior to sentence then each day on tag gives you 1/2 a day off the term imposed, if remanded then its a day per day, as you walk through the prision gates your sentence is again slashed, the jails are overfull, the youth offenders are overfull - hell i was fishing with my youngest at a pond close to a `norty boys prision` he said yeah they go home for weekends !!  weres the sentence in that, way i see it theres roads to be cleaned, canals to be cleaned up, graffiti, dog turds, sea defence work, beach cleaning, ditch cleaning, etc , etc,  you get locked away, you do work, no work you live in a cell with two basic meals a day, no tv, no radio, no baccy nothing, you earn the nice things in life, you work chained to others, the likes of mail bags and the likes are saved for disabled prisioners or poor tards in there for failing to pay a debt, if bussels dont like the way we run it then tell brussels to take a hike

as for national service, ha so you train them, they then say soz im not fighting your war in wherever, what happens then, you jail them ??, the old national service ways would not be allowed in our liberal country, to many do gooders/pc muppits, mate of mine rang me a few years ago, the convo basically went,  Lord mike be glad you out, theres a load of new troop parading in trainers and dp, seems because they found boots too hard the attitude is supply trainers !!!, new recruits are given a card system, go too hard and you can be yellow carded or even red carded, christ help us, mr bin laden, your really nasty, heres my red card, im sorry sgt maj, this run away from the enemy is just too much, if you dont phone a taxi i will have to give you a yellow card

this country needs an enema, it needs inserting in downing street
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Korky

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2011, 09:43:51 am »

With permission from the author, I have the following to add from English ex pats in Canada ..........

My wife and I were born in east London and a north east suburb of London respectively. We grew up in wartime and post-war London. Our families had a home and enough to eat, but there was never a thought of spare money or luxuries. Everyone worked hard for what they got. Family life was strong as was the code of conduct expected of everyone in the community. We emigrated to Canada in our early 20s.

The riots have shocked and disgusted us. We have been proud of our British heritage but disassociate ourselves from current British society. We feel it was a huge mistake to allow mass immigration to such a small, overcrowded country. It has changed society and the racial diversity has just compounded the problems. Cultures don't mix and probably never will.

We had hoped the government might act more forcefully to put down these mobs. The police are overwhelmed, and perhaps the army should have been brought in ?

Why did it take four days for the PM and mayor to show up ?  What a total lack of effective leadership. King George VI and Queen Elizabeth stayed in London during the blitz. It would seem that Cameron was more concerned with a few more days in the sun in Italy!                                   Brian, Vancouver, Canada
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polaris

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2011, 09:52:38 am »


Dear Treeboa,

There is an alternative to Nat.Serv., and it could be based on the same principals as Nat.Serv..

Two years compulsory working for the Forestry Commission, Environment Agency (& similar), County Councils, and certain Inds. and businesses. As with Nat.Serv., those on the scheme would be moved to an entirely different area for the duration, would be accommodated and fed in/from Service style units, and would receive a nominal sum for a weekly spend. The penalties for AWOL and other misdemeanors would be the exact same as if it was Service Nat.Serv..

Basic, relatively easy to implement, a training/work experience (which would come as a bit of a shock to the system to some), and an immediate workforce for those mentionion above that presently are cutting back. Privileges could be offerred to those make an effort to do well. The only exemption from taking part would be absolute proof of already having a job or definite prospects of getting one - but if after a period of time they did not have a job, into the scheme they would go. Anyone on any benefits for longer than twelve months would automatically be in the scheme.

All this is a basic seed, but it is a workable scheme... and a scheme where all and everybody would gain.

Regards, Bernard
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Colin Bishop

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2011, 10:33:48 am »

Korky,

My wife and I visited Vancouver about this time last year and had a great time in a civilised city. However it was only a few months ago that you had rioting of your own when the local hockey(?) team lost to someone else. A lot of people over here felt very surprised and shocked by that - not something you associate with Canada.

You have these lawless elements everywhere, sometimes they get out of control.



Colin
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essex2visuvesi

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2011, 10:43:40 am »

Dear Treeboa,

There is an alternative to Nat.Serv., and it could be based on the same principals as Nat.Serv..

Two years compulsory working for the Forestry Commission, Environment Agency (& similar), County Councils, and certain Inds. and businesses. As with Nat.Serv., those on the scheme would be moved to an entirely different area for the duration, would be accommodated and fed in/from Service style units, and would receive a nominal sum for a weekly spend. The penalties for AWOL and other misdemeanors would be the exact same as if it was Service Nat.Serv..

Basic, relatively easy to implement, a training/work experience (which would come as a bit of a shock to the system to some), and an immediate workforce for those mentionion above that presently are cutting back. Privileges could be offerred to those make an effort to do well. The only exemption from taking part would be absolute proof of already having a job or definite prospects of getting one - but if after a period of time they did not have a job, into the scheme they would go. Anyone on any benefits for longer than twelve months would automatically be in the scheme.

All this is a basic seed, but it is a workable scheme... and a scheme where all and everybody would gain.

Regards, Bernard

They have a similar thing here in Finland.... you have up to days unemployment to find a job on your own then its off to training and work placements.  Failiure to comply results in loss of benefits also single mothers are encouraged to work however childcare here is much easier to find (and more affordable) as most schools have a creche available to working mothers with children aged 6 months and over.


So glad I have left the UK
We also still have national service here.
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Korky

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2011, 11:38:10 am »

Korky,

My wife and I visited Vancouver about this time last year and had a great time in a civilised city. However it was only a few months ago that you had rioting of your own when the local hockey(?) team lost to someone else. A lot of people over here felt very surprised and shocked by that - not something you associate with Canada.

You have these lawless elements everywhere, sometimes they get out of control.



Colin


Colin

Please note that I posted these comments on behalf of an expat Brit who now lives and works in canada.

As for me , I HAD the chance to start a new life in the USA, but unfortunately came back to the UK a few years ago, a decision I have regretted ever since !
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Colin Bishop

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2011, 12:08:32 pm »

Sorry, thought you'd signed it Brian of Vancouver. That's the sort of thing that happens when people use aliases on Forums. Confusing.

Still happened in Canada though and there are reports that gang violence is spilling over in Gold Coast, Australia - not far (relatively spaking) from where Peter Fitness lives.

Colin (real name)
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Korky

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2011, 12:57:06 pm »

Sorry, thought you'd signed it Brian of Vancouver. That's the sort of thing that happens when people use aliases on Forums. Confusing.

Still happened in Canada though and there are reports that gang violence is spilling over in Gold Coast, Australia - not far (relatively spaking) from where Peter Fitness lives.

Colin (real name)


Not inferring that Peter is involved in this sort of nefarious activity are you ?  our very own Peter....never !   P. Pitstop would never forgive him

At least those places have  police forces that don't have their hands tied in times of real emergency by that wonderful organisation known as the Equality and Human Rights Commission !

Korky ( my cat's real name )
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Colin Bishop

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #90 on: August 11, 2011, 01:04:56 pm »

Quote
Not inferring that Peter is involved in this sort of nefarious activity are you ?

He's the local Mr Big! Moderation without moderation.....

OK Peter?

Colin
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Philipsparker

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #91 on: August 11, 2011, 04:34:58 pm »

  Not if you are a farmer in Norfolk if I remember. >:-o

He shot them in the back. That's not self defence. If he'd shot them in the face, every legal expert I've heard (Include Police officers) says he would have got away with it.

Of course, he had a farm so could have just buried the bodies. It's not like burglars leave forwarding addresses is it ?

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Philipsparker

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #92 on: August 11, 2011, 04:44:07 pm »

The problem with National Service is that it includes everyone. It's also not a punishment if done properly.

Look at it this way, would you be happy to see your son or daughter (yes, equal ops now) dead in a desert for a Prime Ministers vanity war ? You would argue that they weren't causing the trouble so why should they be punished etc. etc. And quite right too. Despite the media fuss, there wern't that many people involved and so it seems a bit rich to punish everyone. Did you see the community clear-ups ? They were the same people you want to send to thier deaths.

Also, do you think the army want to be lumbered with these people ? I suspect they also have better things to do. Even solidering is pretty sophisticated these days.

Now some sort of sheme where everyone does some community service has a lot going for it. Trouble is, the people causing this trouble wouldn't turn up and if they did they would be more hasstle than they were worth. I remember struggling in class as a child with the kids who simply didn't want to learn. One of them could stop an entire lesson.

So the solution is more riots combined with snippers on rooftops. That will cut the surplus population !
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Dekan

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #93 on: August 11, 2011, 04:55:22 pm »

You want to train these guys to use guns and other weapons  properly... :o
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Colin Bishop

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #94 on: August 11, 2011, 04:59:09 pm »

Quote
So the solution is more riots combined with snippers on rooftops. That will cut the surplus population !

Maybe not in quite the way you meant..... %)
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Korky

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #95 on: August 11, 2011, 05:12:56 pm »

You want to train these guys to use guns and other weapons  properly... :o


Which "guys" are these you mention D ?
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polaris

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #96 on: August 11, 2011, 07:15:35 pm »


Dear Phillip,

Per a prev. Post (please look back), my idea is not necessarily 'Service' Nat. Serv., but a constructive Nat.Serv. within GB to work with and within Public Sector Orgs., and suitable Co.'s., with the intention to teach and for them to get work experience. It would however have to be run very formally, and the penalties for not doing what one is supposed to do would be the exact same as with a Service Nat.Serv..

Yes it would include all (as per many Euro countries). As to a military Nat.Serv. scenario, this could well be tailored to be non-active service, non-weapons etc., etc., and those service personell looking after the scheme could be those service people who might not want to retire. At the end of the day, the cost of both schemes would possibly be covered by what otherwise would have been paid in DHSS payments, since the age range could be between school leaving age to 30 - or any long term unemployed up to 30. The only exception to all of this are those school leavers who could prove an academic standard that enables them to proceed to University, but, should they drop out of Univ., or then have to sign on after leaving, they would then have to become part of either the scheme. The whole idea of all of this is to provide an incentive that presently isn't there.

All this in brief of course.

Regards, Bernard
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dreadnought72

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #97 on: August 11, 2011, 07:24:22 pm »

So the solution is more riots combined with snippers on rooftops. That will cut the surplus population !

 :embarrassed: A "snipper" in a hospital did a good job in stopping me producing any more surplus population.  {-)

Meanwhile...

National Service? Why not? Not the military, though - for all the reasons mentioned above. That doesn't prevent us from having community-based services, overseas-aid services, doing positive tasks here and abroad for all the right reasons.

Andy
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pugwash

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #98 on: August 11, 2011, 07:54:10 pm »

Andy don't mention the "snip" - I elected to have mine on the friday of my weekend off - then someone offered me overtime
at the County Show - couldn't resist.  All fine until a little boy went missing and was found on the main East coast railway
and I was lifting him back over the barbed wire fence(straddling said fence) when I slipped and barbs hooked me in a very tender
and swollen spot - brings me out in  cold shivers thinking about it!!!
Came very close to speaking in a high pitched voice

Geoff
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mikearace

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Re: London Violence
« Reply #99 on: August 11, 2011, 07:57:11 pm »

It is bad news indeed. There has been shooting in Tooting, arson in Arsenal, looting in Luton and stealing in Ealing.

Ladies in Bucks are advised to stay indoors tonight.

Meanwhile in court this morning, Wayne Jason Chav, 24, of Toxteth had to explain how he covered 100 metres in 10.2 seconds whilst carrying a 60 inch plasma TV whilst at the same time being in receipt of disability benefit.

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