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[sub john]

HI ALL
  Went out to day to try low frequency video link under water, took it down local canal as it seemed a good idea to try it in some water that was not very clear and harder for the RF to get through had transmitting antenna under water receiving end was about 300FT apart and was receiving video picture back from transmitting end should be intersting to see on screen display when fitted in the sub sending back compass headings from under water, to receiving end on bank side which of course you can plug in to lap top and store on to hard drive video pictures
 sub  John

[Mad_Mike]

well done john looks like youve made the first ever successful underwater wireless video transmission. whats the picture like?

[sub john]

HI MIKE
  Video picture i didn't get to see it the misses was watching it in the car on small LCD screen Pauline said all most as good as BBC quality  transmitted TV analog, which i think is pretty good but she did say it would flicker to black and white for a split second and then back to colour. It should be interesting when all this RF tat goes in the sub am going to try and take the sub out and try it with all this new RF stuff but not in it the first time as sub has had so much new electronics put in it think it is the best thing to do to make sure that whats in there works OK before i put any more in.

Sub has not been in the water for such a long time have got visions of some thing going wrong its spent a long time sat on two straps round the hull in a cradle so just won't to be sure every thing is OK.

The paging system that is in the sub will verbally transmit back and tell you if there is any water coming in to the sub water senors in  keel bottom so even if a cup full of water comes in i will know about it. Will probably just do a static dive sit it down at about 5FT and leave it there and see what happens
     JOHN

[Mad_Mike]

take some more footage of the testing stages john

[gyronuts]

awesome model. Yes for more video/pitures. Bill

[sub john]

there is the new captin of the sub just thought id post the pics as a laf            













by the way for anyone who thinks the dragon is a toy i warn you he bites lol he bit me and i had to go to hospital i woke my son after he bit me as i had blood running all down my arm lol hes not like that often just when you go near his female      love struck dragon                 BTW hes 2ft long so you get the idea of the size of the conning tower

[Mad_Mike]

looks as eager as we are to see this sub on the water. Hows it coming along?

[sub john]

HI BILL
  Thanks for comment on sub, hopefully will get sub on the water in the next few weeks and will do another video then.  A friend of mine was asking me last night on the phone when i was going to take it out so he could give me a hand to get it in the water have had a problem with telemetry unit for sending back things like pressure in main air tanks battery voltage amps being pulled out of battery, the problem was coursed by battery's which split and acid went every where in side of the sub, the acid fumes had attacked the trimming caps in RF section and i spent four days rebuilding it but it is all OK now.
    All the best Sub John

[sub john]

HI MIKE
    It is getting very close to taking it out now am trying my best to get it on the water all we need now is some good weather. Some body gave me a smart charger but it was made for 24volts took it to bits and reworked it so in fast charge it will give out 15volts then will drop back in to float charge which would be 13.8volts for a jel type lead acid battery just been testing it out now in the garage seems to work spot on have spent many hours sorting things out its amazing how quick time goes but it does seem worth it.
All the best Sub John

[Mad_Mike]

At least you are on the home straight, all down here from now

[sub john]

HI MIKE
 Had sub switched on in garage all day today just switched it off, all five radio links seem to be working fine you said some where on hear why don't you start a web site, my friend Phil and myself are working on quite a few electronic projects and have set up a web site to start to sell electronic bits and bobs  hopefully in the next few weeks will start to advertise bits on web site

If anybody can think of a usefull electronic gadget to go in a sub would be interested to hear from you as making what people won't would be usefull to know .

Have been working on sonic link for controlling model subs under water and of course  will work in salt water, think i know how to get around the problem of having different subs in the water at the same time but as i have said before it all takes time to work out.
     All the best Sub John

[Subculture]

Something under discussion on a thread in the Sub Drivers forum was reducing the throws to control surfaces as speed is increased on fast boats, or boats with highly efficient control surfaces. A microcontroller that could reduce throw proportionally on rudder and hydroplane controls in relation to the ESC setting would be very handy. AFAIK no one has produced such a device yet.

The sonic radio you've mentioned in earlier posts would be interesting, but I can't see a huge market for that, as I think most people are satisfied with the performance of normal radio.  I do think there is a market for a really good synthesized 40mhz receiver with built in failsafes on all channels that can be set for different timings e,g, a long delay of several seconds for ballast, but a shorter delay for esc etc.

[Mad_Mike]

Excelent john, i reckon that once this sub is on you tube you will be inundated with requests for the radio your using. With development you will be able to design and market a appropriatly priced system for the serious modellers with more money than sense.

Regaurding a sonic link radio. I think if the option is there to be able to take your sub anywhere then people would use it, im personally put off subs by the fact that currently the only place i can use one is a rented swimming pool, yeah nice scale looking models but not an interesting or scale environment to sail them in. But thats just my oppinion.


 

[Subculture]

Model subs are very niche, and if you talk to model submariners, they rarely complain about radio range- we tend to keep close to the shore unless on the surface, otherwise you can't see what's going on, even in a swimming pool. John would probably sell half a dozen to the experimentally inclined, and that would be that.

The ability to sail in salt water without a aerial leading to the surface is one huge advantage of a sonic system, but it's worth bearing in mind that salt water really does a number on anything metallic on subs, and even if I had the ability to sail in the brine, I'd favour fresh water.

[Mad_Mike]

obviously a long range underwater radio is pointless without an FPV system.

[Davy1]

Just to correct Mike's impression of model subs. (Though I may have misunderstood your post - maybe only swimming pools are available to you personally.)

Model subs are not just used in swimming pools. You will find that most people (myself included) use them in the usual club pond alongside other types of model ( i.e they are fine for general model boat club use.)

Swimming pools are nice but not essential. The last time I used one was when I commissioned my Holland 1 at Merstham several years ago.

(Which reminds me that if you do want a pool, the Merstham show is not far off - good for a beginning of season work-out)

So apologies Mike if I had misunderstood your post.

David

P.S Just got back from the Dortmund Model Show. Thanks to everyone for a really good show. Lots for we model submariners too! Good to see Norbert Bruggen and Sonar there and everyone was most helpful.

[Subculture]

obviously a long range underwater radio is pointless without an FPV system.

Not much to see underwater, and very tricky to get your bearings looking at a screen unless it's ultra clear, and you need to be moving very slowly indeed. I guess the DIY ROV chaps have more experience with this kind of thing, albeit running with an umbilical attached.

Even in the ideal conditions of a swimming pool, you'll find that submariners rarely sail their model beyond 30-40ft from the edge, and usually stay closer than that unless running on the surface or at periscope depth.

Regarding suitable waters, swimming pools or spring fed lakes are ideal but aren't always available. Personally I don't care about realistic settings, I just want to see what the boat is doing. Local boating ponds can be suitable, but not always. Unfortunately many boating lakes are either too shallow or are opaque.

If the pond is shallow this can be sidestepped by making a very small submarine. Unlike surface craft, once submerged, a small submarine will be unaffected by choppy water, so will behave much the same as a larger boat, although the lower inertia will make for a very nimble craft.

[Mad_Mike]

Just to correct Mike's impression of model subs. (Though I may have misunderstood your post - maybe only swimming pools are available to you personally.)

Model subs are not just used in swimming pools. You will find that most people (myself included) use them in the usual club pond alongside other types of model ( i.e they are fine for general model boat club use.)

Swimming pools are nice but not essential. The last time I used one was when I commissioned my Holland 1 at Merstham several years ago.

(Which reminds me that if you do want a pool, the Merstham show is not far off - good for a beginning of season work-out)

So apologies Mike if I had misunderstood your post.

David

P.S Just got back from the Dortmund Model Show. Thanks to everyone for a really good show. Lots for we model submariners too! Good to see Norbert Bruggen and Sonar there and everyone was most helpful.

When i was considering submarines i thought i do some research, and from that i discovered that unless the water is clear the signal doesnt penetrate more than a few feet (supposedly) and if you want to go any deeper than a knee high the water has to be very clear so thats why the use of swimming pools. I may be wrong but if you want to send your sub 150ft out 7 ft down then thats 150.163ft of wet stuff to get through (used calculator), and if i was i to to have a go at submarines considering the amount of money put into them id expect it to be able to do that.   

[Subculture]

Clarity is less of an issue regarding penetration of signal, although it is an issue with regards to controlling your sub- if you can't see it, you don't know what it's doing.

[Mad_Mike]

which is why an fpv would be needed. but as you said previously difficult to get your bearings. Thats where computer gaming comes in handy

[Subculture]

Have you sailed a model submarine before, Mike?

[sub john]

HI Subculture
    I can see there is a few more posts on hear since last time i was on, you said about designing a circuit for reduced rates for controlled surfaces according to motor speed  could not see it being a problem designing it would probably be have to be linked to level control circuit for back planes as well.  I read some where on mayhem about talk roll happening on a model sub what you could do to help stop that problem is have level control circuit linked so it is looking across port to starbird and would mix hydroplanes to compensate for roll, did the same thing on fast electric boat i have seem to work well but do you think there would be a big enough market for it.

    Sonic link for under water yes i do know what you are saying about not being a big market for it i suppose it  is always some thing to look at in the future and see if there is a market
                              Sub John

[sub john]

HI Mike
     I must admit that the design of a sonic link for under water for controlling the sub would probably be targeted at the modeller  who wont's some thing that he can use say at a show and not have to worry about a peg board and who is on what channel so they can sail at what ever time they wont

    Where i used to sail the sub of mine i have seen me being about 3FT down in the water and being well over 300FT away even as though you could not see it you could see a lump on the surface of the water so you could tell where it was, i have even controlled a sub under the ICE many years ago i must be mad and yes i did get it back.

Mike i have been fitting LF antenna in today its took all day what a pain in the neck. Just got to do a bit of painting on the pressure plate hatch
  Sub John

[Subculture]

I've seen torque roll issues countered by using two levellers set diagonally and sent to separate servos for control of rear planes. This has the disadvantage of having to fork out for two levellers though.

Not sure how much of a market there would be for a torque roll compensator. Don't think there'd be much interest in the UK, most sub modellers don't stick powerful enough motors in their boats for this to become a serious issue.

What I would hate to see is someone like yourself put in time and money to a set of projects that fail to find a market. A lot of the items that most submariners need in their models are readily available already, and with significant choice e.g. levellers, ballast controllers, ESC's etc. Quite a reversal of how things were a few years ago, when a lot of stuff was difficult to source, or limited to one or two suppliers.

[Mad_Mike]

Have you sailed a model submarine before, Mike?

Ive sailed toy ones and meh it was ok. what i really wanted to do was send a wireless rov type sub with live video feedback and explore the murky depths of the local lake i sail at. But if i cant get to the bottom then i dont see the point in pursuing it. When i started the possibilities thread it was just my imagination going nuts until i found out john here whos made it actually feasible. Im more into function rather than aesthetics. Id be honestly be more impressed by a model sub that can target a destoyer up periscope and look like a drain pipe than an exact replica uboot with 23500 rivets on it.

I honestly beleive that if john gets this online and as a product he will have orders from all over the world from people who want to take modelling a small leap further. The option isnt there at the minute, but once it is, then new people will start the hobby and maybe even submarines might be less of a niche. Maybe sonic transmission is the next step, i can see it definatly being of interest to marine biologists.

Its just my oppinion