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Author Topic: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build  (Read 31709 times)

bobk

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HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« on: September 21, 2011, 12:13:32 PM »

HMS Amazon 1906 build

I have just bought a Deans HMS Amazon to keep my 1905 Skirmisher company.  It was good to have the opportunity to see inside the box at the Deans Open Day.  First part of this thread is to show what you get and my impressions of it before I start building.

IN THE BOX

Hull is nicely detailed and good quality.  Two trays of resin and die cast fittings, plus photo etched parts. Prop shaft, brass parts for masts etc, rods chains and rigging thread.  As you can see there is quite a lot of it even for one of their ‘simpler’ ship kits.  Very little flash on resin and metal parts, nothing that cannot be cleaned up easily.

An AO size detail plan with various views and colour photos.  Part references are indexed on the plan plus a two page reference index laid out to match the tray positions.  There is also a comprehensive check list and an 18 page detail instruction booklet that has many useful and essential tips on everything from recommended adhesives, techniques, to scale speed and wind force tables, plus a sheet on recommended signal flags for this class of vessel.  Reading it all carefully before opening anything – nothing I don’t feel confident making up.

Two sheets of vacuum formings for boats and funnels etc.  Four plastic sheets of deck and superstructure parts, clearly printed in colour.  Various lengths of wood for deck mounting etc.

At a shade over two hundred Pounds there is a lot in this box.  It looks an excellent job which I would say good value for what you get included.  No doubt lots of feedback over the years has improved it further and fine tuned the instructions.

NOT IN THE BOX, but bought at the same time.


Running gear, battery, motors, two prop shafts as I intend building it to the original twin shaft spec rather than the single prop supplied. Motors, props, ESC, and Rx unit to work with my Planet T5.

Considering the above came to half the price of the kit, it further indicates the value of the kit.
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thelegos

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2011, 12:47:51 PM »

Hi Bob, looks like a nice project so keep us up to date. We chatted at Ron's place and I'm not surprised you left with a little something to keep you busy over the winter so keep us informed during the build and I look forward to seeing it on the water at next years open day  :-))
Roger
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2011, 02:33:53 PM »

Hi Roger.  It was nice to meet you.  Whilst there I also had a look inside their HMS Hannibal, but decided that the vast number of parts - especially the ten big sheets of etchings - was one that was perhaps beyond my limits at this time.
Since Peterborough I have been reworking the rigging on my Skirmisher I brought up with me.  I am gradually rebuilding it.
( http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=32556.msg323860 )

I aim to return next September, with Amazon & Skirmisher.

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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2011, 08:56:25 PM »

Hi Bobk,
Just started the same kit myself, although it is an old production one which I obtained elsewhere at a keen price, am interested in what size props, shafts and motors you have planned. Wish you well with the kit for the future.
David
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2011, 09:26:12 PM »

David:  The two motors are tiny Raboesch type 108-22 (3-12V).  Deans 2mm prop shafts with watertight roller bearings.  Props are Raboesch 20 mm M2 L&R handed (162-01 and 02).  Deans micro-ESC 10A, to run both as with props close together on a sleek 900 mm ship of only 89 mm beam a mixer would give little advantage. 
I was told that the original ship had three props per shaft to attain its 33 knots, but I drew the line at trying to mount six props.  :D
At present the battery is a 1600 mAh Overlander.  Depending on how ballasting goes I might be able to fit two to extend running time. 
The chunky lead acid battery in my Skirmisher runs for at least three hours.
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2011, 05:15:15 PM »

Hi thanks for the info, regards the three props, I have heard of a ship with such setup, but I do not believe it this class. According to "Destroyers of the Royal Navy 1893-1981" by Maurice Cocker, the early built boats of this class where twin screw but the latter ones where three screw, I believe he was referring to shafts not actual screws per shaft. They where faster than the earlier boats because they where oil fired not coal and there for could maintain their top speed, as the earlier boats doubled the number of stokers on board to obtain a fast contract speed when on builders trials, but subsequently unable to maintain it due to limited number of stokers and human endurance at shovelling large amounts of coal. This class did have small fast running props due to the turbines not being fitted with reduction gearing. Have found a good colour illustration of Mohawk in "British Destroyers 1892-1918" in Osprey Publishing's of her in what looks like North Sea Green colour, plus she appears to be twin screw.
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colin-d

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 06:12:28 PM »

hope you enjoy your Build Bob..... and it was nice having a chat during the Deans Opendays... and I'm glad your enjoying my Inflexible Build..
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Edward Pinniger

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2011, 06:17:35 PM »

Looks like a very interesting project, I'll definitely be following this thread!
 Is there any chance you could post a higher resolution photo (or a few photos) of the kit contents? I'm quite interested to see what the kit is like, it's one on my personal "wish list" for when/if I get a bit more spare cash! I'd definitely like to build an early destroyer or TBD myself one day; I scratchbuilt HMS Velox in 1/96 scale a few years ago, but it is a waterline model so there's no hope of converting it to R/C.
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2011, 07:23:52 PM »

Edward:  If you are based in Berkshire, hopefully not too far from Windsor, you are welcome to come round and see the kit contents. If so send me a PM.  I will be posting more detailed photos as the build progresses.

David:  Lots of sources of info on this class, with some conflicting, even to dates.  Built by seven shipyards over three years to a procurement spec rather than plans, not surprising so many variations.  The proc spec did require oil fired, preferably turbines, and 33 knots, but what actually got fitted to each, and what got changed later is not always easy to tie down.  I have various sources stating twin shafts for the class but you may be right that triple shafts were tried on the later ships.  I have an early photo of Mohawk in black, and a later one in grey.

Colin:  Nice to meet you, thanks for the tips you gave me.  I still say your Inflexible build should be in the Masterclass section  O0
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2011, 09:49:36 PM »




This the pic of Mohawk I was refering to she is not strictly speaking in north sea green, but it is a grey green colour. The shows her with triple screws so she must have been one of the latter built one. I have not yet decided on my models colour scheme yet, but most probaly the one in the pic as it seems quite simple, probaly go to white ensign for the paint. But was Amazon triple shaft or twin, one clue could be her armament as the latter built ones had 2 x 4" guns.
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2011, 11:51:22 PM »

Very substantial differences between the 12 Tribal ships.  3 to 6 funnels, turtleback to flat fo'c's'les.  Deans do separate Amazon & Mohawk kits, which look quite individual.  Wikipedia confirms 2 or 3 shafts, but all oil fuelled.  Amazon was twin shaft.  
Gives the modeller plenty of choice to customise, even to Zubian which was the undamaged ends of Zulu & Nubian welded together.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_class_destroyer_(1905).
Here is Amazon in in early black for instance . . .  Later she was grey

Fascinating ships that pushed the limits of then-technology
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2011, 11:19:16 AM »

Yes they where great leap forward in design for the RN, from coal fired recip to oil fired turbines, makes you wonder if the Naval Ship Constructor used these boats as a trial for bigger things to come, the old victotrian home fleet colours look appealing I must say. I shall watch your build with interest, myself I am going with twin shafts, the motors I am thinking of using came out of one those ready to run russian destroyers that were selling for £30, they scream at8/9v, Shipmate60 gave them to me to try. Butmore of interest how are you arranging the rudder, myself I thought of using similiar system to the early TBD, but on Deans drawings there are no real clear indication where the wire surfaces on deck aft.
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2011, 02:28:11 PM »

All is explained in detail in the instruction booklet, with diagrams and photos.
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victorian

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2011, 05:13:20 PM »

Wow you don't hang around Bob! When i bought the 'Hannibal' (which after much re-working became 'Mars') I didn't even open the box for several years lest the wife found out what I'd done.
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2011, 04:08:33 PM »

Hi Bobk,
Afraid my box is typical of Deans of yester year, there is only one general layout plan with no real detail and the box plans go on about fitting a dummy rudder and a propierty rdder with a single screw.
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2011, 07:23:29 PM »

You said that yours was an old one, "obtained elsewhere at a keen price."  Sounds like you have essential paperwork and maybe other stuff missing.  Suggest you contact Deans.  They are very helpful.
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 07:50:11 PM »

Yeah well I think I will use modellers licence and build the steering gear as on an earlier vessel which I have ships plans for. I bought some small copper bore tube to run the steering wire through onto the deck aft to operate the rudder tiller today. The steering servo I will fit near the motors, somewhere where I can get my big fat fingers easily to adjust the wire, although I will put some wire spring tensioners in to keep it taut. Reference the three props on one shaft you mentioned, it was the Velox, how long she ran on that system I do not know.
I shall be watching with interest your build thread, as it is my first with a Deans kit and I can always learn from others, which is why I like this site so much. So happy building and I look to seeing your pics.
Best regards,
David.
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 12:49:43 PM »


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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2011, 08:27:29 PM »

OK, build underway.  As said before it pays to thoroughly keep re-reading the illustrated instructions as each stage defines so much for the next steps - like making sure your running gear will be accessible under the defined deck openings, no so easy as I am fitting twin shafts.

Trimming the fibreglass edges of the hull to the moulded plating edges, using a steel rule and fine line marker.  It did say use a Surform, but hey, with care it did the job well and kept a straight edge.  I had to use my Rotacraft with small grinding block to trim the fo'c'sle to main deck curve, then finish off with fine wet 'n dry and a block.


Next up was fitting the shafts.  Not so easy gauging exactly where the drill holes were to go, but opening out to an ellipse with a round rifler file was a doddle.  Note use of ubiquitous Blue Tack to hold in place for the epoxy.  I used a patch of fine cotten on the inside, then the next day built up the shape with UHU Plus Acrylit filler.


Deciding to leave he rest of the running gear until I can at least dry-fit the decks, I used a strip of the plastic sheet from the kit as a guide to position the wood mountings.  Only first part shown here, as I am waiting for epoxy to dry before adding the stern parts and cross beams.


Purists will say I should have kept clothes peg colours separate for each part, but heck this is my first ever kit build.   :}

PS:  'Dodes' : No need to have the rudder linkage showing, plenty of room inside plus a deck opening above.
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Dave13

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2011, 11:19:12 AM »

Nice to see you have made a start Bob!! :-) What size props did you use?? as I was thinking about building the Mohawk version as I like the look of the triple shafts. (or I like a challenge trying to squeeze three motors and shafts in the hull) lol  %%
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2011, 02:30:17 PM »

A bit more done each evening Dave, but it's started.  Keep stopping for epoxy or filler to set is a pain.
Props are 20mm Raboesch, L&R handed.  They spin on for ages with ball bearing shafts.  If I get the tiny Raboesch 108-22 motors (3-12V) wired right the props should turn inwards at the top.  Motors look like the size of the ones I used for my scratch slot cars, very small.  Hull is only 89mm beam, external.  I believe this motor is also used on some of the smaller bow thrusters, so capable of moving water well.
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farrow

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2011, 02:29:13 PM »

Hi Bob,
I was interested to see the hull, it looks like Dean has upgraded this kit with a decent looking hull, as my hull is the expanded plastic hull with no detail on it, which means more work for me.
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2011, 06:46:05 PM »

Some more progress.  I am now installing the running gear and electrics inside, before fitting the decks so I can check fit and access as I go.

Note the Raboesch motors on an aluminium mounting bracket, couplings, servo and rudder arm.  I used lengths of Plastruct tubing to align the shafts before fitting the motors frame.  Rudder and servo linkage is all under the main deck, slightly enlarging the access panel in the deck.  Another defined access panel is over the couplings motors and ESC (ESC not fitted yet), and a third over the battery area.

As the rudder is fairly small and extends below the keel I decided to make it out of brass rather than the laminated plastic version with the kit.

This is the real rudder, the dummy "false rudder" will be glued to the stern with its bottom end in the water.  Prop shaft support frames still to be added.

PS:  I have finally cracked the Photobucket [IMG] linking.  Previously any photo I uploaded, however small and compact kept being reduced to thumbnails on this forum.   O0


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dreadnought72

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2011, 07:02:15 PM »

Hi Bob,

You mention that you're going to run both motors off one ESC.

Is it worth considering a mixer (or, more brutally, a cut-off switch to the inner shaft) when the rudder's at full swing?

Might help with turns.

Andy
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bobk

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Re: HMS Amazon 1906 - Build
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2011, 07:14:32 PM »

Hi Andy,
I did try a small mixer PCB on my larger Skirmisher, without much success, so reverted to a Y lead instead.  If I can find a good one that works at low throttle (instead of flipping ahead/astern whenever the rudder moves) I will try it on that first. Recommendations ?
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