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Author Topic: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?  (Read 23114 times)

Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2011, 05:37:14 pm »

Time for another episode I think!


‘Natterer’ – A shipbuilding Odyssey? – Part 5

The final two planks, one on each side, had to exactly fill the remaining gap and had to be very accurately measured and profiled on both edges. Each plank took two nights to shape and fix in place, and I hadn’t any margin for error, as I was down to my last good pieces of timber. ‘Measure twice, cut once’ was the order of the day, and happily at the end of it the fit was good.

I left the hull for three days to fully dry, before attempting to invert it, and then took my courage in my hands, unscrewed all the shadows from the building board, and for the first time turned the hull upright. What a wonderful sight! The hull had looked just like an interesting curved surface when upside down, but when upright it immediately became alive, and the true beauty of the hull form could be seen, with the subtle rise of the sheer to bow and stern, and the way the turn of the bilge gradually turned in to the tuck of her stern under the counter – stop it, Ted – you’re a married man! 

Now for the next stage, the fitting of the internal ribs. The hull had a total of 16 bent ribs down it’s length, with a further nine heavier carved frames. The ribs were continuous from gunwhale to gunwhale, except where the hull narrowed at each end, and the keelson had then to be fitted before the frames were installed. The ribs were 7 x 3mm mahogany, and were pre-bent around a piece of steel tube, heated by a gas torch. This operation proved tricky, as the difference between too little force in bending and consequent total ineffectiveness, and too much with consequent breakage was very small. I broke many pieces before I got the hang of it, and burnt my fingers several times, but eventually managed a full set.

Tap, tap tap – ‘One thousand three hundred and seven’; Tap, tap tap – ‘One thousand three hundred and eight’; Tap, tap, tap – ‘One thousand three hundred……….’ ; - You’ve guessed it; we’re at the riveting stage.

Full size construction uses copper nails which are driven through the timbers. A copper “rove” or washer is then driven down over the nail, excess nail nipped off, and the end then hammered over or ‘upset’ to ‘clench’ the nail. In full size it is a two man job, one to drive and hold the nail, and the other on the inside of the boat roving, nipping and clenching.

I used 1/16 x ½ inch copper rivets, which were pretty well to scale, but had great difficulty finding something to use as roves. Many modellers use modern 1/16” i.d. brass washers, but these tend to end up grossly overscale, and to my mind totally spoil the effect. I couldn’t find 1/16 washers in copper, and reluctantly decided I would have to use brass, but wasn’t happy about the scale effect. As luck would have it, I called in on my usual nut and bolt company when out and about, and asked if they had any small 1/16” i.d. washers. ‘Oh yes, the computer says we’ve got a packet in stock with about 1100 in’. When they eventually found them, at the back of the biggest warehouse you’ve ever seen, I was ecstatic - the washers were like nothing I’d ever seen before, and had a very small o.d. - they were exact scale! The only problem was I needed at least 1600. The company said they would get some more from the same supplier, but when they came, they were much wider. We checked, and found the original washers were stocked in 1981, to an obsolete standard, and no longer available!
This was a poser, but I decided I would use the original washers where they showed on the finished boat, and the wider ones where hidden. So first I counted the original washers to make sure I had enough for this course of action and found I had well over 2500! These things were tiny, and all of them could have fitted in a large egg-cup - the original supplier must have said ‘sod it, I’m not counting those’ and just chucked a handful in the bag to fill the warehouse’s order.

With the immediate problem solved, I started to fit the ribs. One of the midships shadows was removed, and the rib glued in place. Next, 1/16” holes were drilled through plank and rib, and the outside countered-bored to a depth of approx. 1/16” to allow the head of the rivet to sink in so it wouldn’t disappear when sanded flush. The rivet was then driven into the hole after being dipped in Araldite, before a washer was threaded over the shank on the inside, the rivet nipped off about 3/32” above the washer, and the end turned over, or ‘upset’ (Lovely word) to clench it home, using a light hammer and a heavy lump of steel as an anvil against the rivet head. I didn’t of course do each operation on each rivet one at a time, but drilled all the holes in one go, then countered-bored and so on. I found the work to be quite physically demanding, and found I could only put in a maximum of about 120 rivets in a three hour session.

I started off very tentatively, only removing one shadow at a time, and being very careful with the hammering, fully expecting all the planking joints to open, but soon found there wasn’t a problem and ended up with no shadows in place at all, as they just got in the way! The hull remained absolutely stable throughout.
1600 rivets later, all the ribs were in place, and I turned my attention to the frames.

(Sorry about the quality of the photos - still on copies of old photos!)
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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2011, 07:21:39 pm »

Once again thank you Ted, thoroughly enjoyable as always. I had no idea the riveting process is exactly that , your description is both entertaining and informative.
Keep it coming  :-))

Roger
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2011, 10:55:00 am »

Moving on! - Episode 6 to thrill and delight you, or more likely bore you rigid.


‘Natterer’ – A shipbuilding Odyssey? – Part 6

The keelson was fitted next over the full length of the keel, effectively sandwiching the bent frames where they cross the keel, and preventing any subsequent movement.

The main frames, of which there are only nine, comprised three pieces; a floor section which straddles the keelson and extends out to the turn of the bilge, and two extension pieces which overlap with the floor section and extend up to the gunwhale. They were all cut from 10 and 12mm mahogany which came from an Edwardian wardrobe originally belonging to my Gran. I can remember the wardrobe in it’s full finery, but when Gran died it was cut down and turned into a couple of chests of drawers and a mirror by my Aunt, eventually to come to Ann and myself as bedside chests when we bought our home, then finally to be overcome and dragged up to my lair. Can’t bear to see good timber going to waste, especially when it’s re-use helps to minimise further damage to the rainforests - I won’t use new rainforest timbers if I can possibly help it - you can always find old or a substitute. Enough proselytising - back to the plot!

The extension pieces, like the floor sections, were cut and shaped almost entirely by eye, using the belt sander. I have tried the job from first principles, carefully marking out by hand and trimming to lines, but it never works out as well as I hope. I find that your eye and skill with the shaper stand you in much better stead, and you get a much closer fit when you are attempting to fit a curved timber that twists within it’s length.
The extension pieces were finally all made and fitted in place, and the tops trimmed down level with the top strake.

At this point, the box of copper rivets came out again (groans all round) All the main frames had to be riveted to the hull, as well as glued! Not nearly as bad a job as the bent ribs, as the rivets didn’t project through the frames, and hence only had to be glued, and not roved and upset. Where fixings were supposed to come through the frames, I just used another rivet and washer on the inside!  What did surprise me however, was the sheer number of rivets still required to finish the hull! I had reckoned on about 2000, but in the event, after adding in all the plank ends, the overlaps, the whales, the doublers, the splices, the spacers, the stringers, the ones falling down the cracks in the workroom floor, and the ones that pinged off out of my pliers into cyberspace, and so on and so forth, the total number of rivets used looked to be coming up to about 2600.

At this point the main inside whales (or stringers if you prefer) had to be fitted, but because from hereon in there would be less and less opportunity to work on or even reach some parts of the hull, it was necessary to first ensure the inside of the planking and ribs were ribs were as I wanted them in terms of surface finish, and then apply varnish to those parts that would be subsequently covered. The opportunity was taken at this stage to also fill in with wooden plugs all the temporary holes it had been necessary to drill through the hull whilst ‘persuading’ the planking to lie flat to the shadows. In all, some 180 holes were plugged and trimmed over a couple of nights (Why on earth do I bother!)
The hull has four 16 x 4.5mm timbers that run internally from stem to stern to provide longitudinal strength (The aforementioned whales). Two lie in the turn of the bilge, whilst the other two parallel the top strake and sandwich the heads of the ribs and frames. All are vital to the strength of the vessel, and I had saved four pieces of my best straightest-grained timber for the task. Once they had been fitted and properly riveted in place, the hull was secure, and I could relax happy in the knowledge that nothing was now likely to open or distort.
In fact the hull was now so solid that I’m sure I could have stood on it - but perhaps I’m not that brave!

Final job at this stage was to invert the boat again, place a light inside the hull, and then carefully fill any gaps in the hull planking with Araldite - luckily there weren’t many.

Work had to stop for a little while now as we prepared for Christmas (that’s if I wanted to make it to Christmas day with a whole skin), but in the event, I caught a dose of flue on Christmas Eve, and that stopped everything for four days until I staggered weakly out of bed, only to be brought low with a migraine attack which knocked me out for New Year 2000! Was that the Millenium? Just as I was about to go back to work (the money-earning sort of work to do with my employer) Ann’s appointment at the hospital came through, we had complications, and I ended up staying off work until the 17th! Ann’s misfortune was my gain, as I was able to get on with some more work ( the money-spending sort to do with boats).

The hull had hopefully benefited from being left for a month, in terms of drying out and building up glue strength. I was able to attack the outside with a disk sander and bring all those 2600 rivet heads down flush with the hull. That’s one of the advantages of building at this size - you can safely attack the thing with full size power tools and use quite a bit of welly!

The next stage was to pinch one of Ann’s Marmalade making jars from the kitchen ready to mix varnish and thinners - This was closely followed by a trip to the doctors for painkillers and a promise to never touch her jars again.

Eventually I found a suitable container, and the first coat of varnish, thinned with 60% thinners went into the inside of the hull. A further three coats followed, increasing the strength each time, until the final coat was only 20% thinners. Using a very thin first coat ensures that the wood is really impregnated with the varnish. I have seen boats where varnish has been applied full strength, and has just lifted off following immersion in water, as it had no adhesion.
The same process was repeated on the exterior, with four coats of varnish. This serves to seal and anchor all the rivets, and stops the wood staining in subsequent building operations.

By this time, I felt it was time for a change, and decided the next stage would be a little metal-bashing, but as this involves a bit of an explanation of the workings of a Kitchin rudder, I shall hold it over until next time!

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Shipmate60

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2011, 11:21:08 am »

Ted,
What a sensational, inspirational build.

Bob
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pugwash

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2011, 11:25:24 am »

Ted you are wasting your time here - If you can build to this quality in miniature think what a lovely job you could
make of the real thing

Geoff
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gondolier88

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2011, 12:23:55 pm »

Ted you are wasting your time here - If you can build to this quality in miniature think what a lovely job you could
make of the real thing

Geoff

A tad difficult on a table in the spare bedroom!

It's interesting to note the use of a keelson- I haven't had chance to inspect under Bat's deckboards, but is this a feature of Bat? It's very unusual for a Windermere launch to have a keelson of the type that encases the steamed frames as the rest of the launches have a keelson that takes the garboard only and the steamed frames are bent in one peice over the keel and up both sides of the hull.

Great write-up Ted, thankyou for taking the time.

Greg
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2011, 04:55:56 pm »

Hi Roger & Bob - many thanks for your kind remarks - it really does make a difference when putting something like this narrative together to have some response, whether encouraging or critical! (and both yours were encouraging!)

Ah Geoff, - when I retired from work four years ago it was my intention to build a full size steamer, but health problems have regrettably scuppered that idea.

Greg, I can't for the life of me remember whether Bat has a keelson over the bent frames, and I can't find anything in my photo file to confirm or deny.  I have the sneaking feeling that as an engineer, I felt the keelson under the steamed frames was a little weak, particularly for a model of this size and weight being hauled out of the river by two enthusiastic 'helpers', and beefed it up! But then, Natterer isn't Bat, so perhaps a little artistic licence is permitted. I would quite agree that the majority of full size boats with this form of construction would have the single keelson with steamed ribs over.
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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2011, 10:45:25 pm »

Hello Ted,
An enjoyable read again, it sounds like you got the Millennium Bug all to yourelf !!

I do love to work in wood but by no means with the same level of skill and intricacy as yourself. Most of my projects are the restoration of vintage wooden craft, the most recent being an old 1950's Veron Marlin cruiser.

I read with interest your application of varnish, for me this is something that never seems to go as planned and no matter how carefully I apply it dries with tiny air bubbles. I must confess I've been using it neat and not thinned down which I'll most certainly try, will this help eliminate the bubbles?? I must add that I'm applying with a brush and assumed you did the same.
What are your thoughts on this?
Roger

 
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2011, 09:50:57 am »

Hello Roger,
In my younger and more naive days I used to think that people who said they had 'flu were wimps.  Then I caught it!  If you've never had it, it's impossible to realise just how it knocks you totally sideways, and for how long.  Nowadays, when people say 'I had 'flu yesterday, so I stayed off work' I just raise an expressive eyebrow and leave it at that.

Varnish is funny stuff.  I always use a good marine varnish, well thinned as stated in my text, and in several layers, with a light rubbing down in between.  I've never had problems with bubbles, but would suggest the following: 1. Always use a good quality brush  2. Avoid 'overworking' the varnish, which can introduce bubbles  3. if rubbing down between coats, use some white spirit followed by a tack rag to remove every last speck of dust.

After all that, I eventually stripped the varnish off 'Natterer' and used an epoxy resin finish to avoid drying out problems - but that comes in a later instalment!

Ted
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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2011, 11:37:01 am »

Hello Ted,
Oddly enough my wife and I had a conversation yesterday about what is and isn't flu and concluded that most isn't but it all pales into insignificance against the dreadful modern day phenomena that is MAN FLU - totally debilitating and only curable by vast amounts of pampering and being waited on hand and foot  :-))

But onto varnish. I've decided to do some testing of my own.

I'll try a 50/50 thinning , choosing this percentage as the benchmark to work either side of depending on the outcome.

I've tried many types of brush from quality sable to fully synthetic, round, flat etc. Sable is undoubtedly good but think I need to develop a good cleaning regime as it seems to be feel worst once used. I chatted to a man at Warwick last year whose boats were beautifully painted and varnished and he's been using the same sable brushes for 20 years!

Overworking is something I've been aware of and applying too fast produces a bit of a mess so I tend to lightly load the brush and work very steadily. Combined with some thinning I think this could yield good results.

Dust. Good thought, I vacuum and the wipe down with lint free cloth but not wetted with anything and I guess any tiny particle has the potential to make its presence known!

Thank you for your response, I'm planking a deck in mahogany at the moment so these ideas can be tried soon.

Roger
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2011, 04:25:10 pm »

Hello Roger,
Try some tack rag - it's used by the automotive trade and is even better than lint-free - Halfords stock it

Ted
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gondolier88

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2011, 05:50:00 pm »

I personally use LeTonkinois, a high quality (though fairly well priced) marine varnish. It has strict instructions NOT to thin any coats- it contains nothing but natural resins, based on Tung oil carrier with a unique mixture- the first coat soaks in just like a good quality oil and acts as a cellular sealer too. The second coat is a filling coat. The third coat is the first real gloss coat, and the fourth fifth and sixth add a real lustre and deep finish.

Getting rid of dust is THE most important factor in getting a decent finish- always decant into a clean dust free container so as to not contaminate the tin, always use turps, or white spirit if that's all you have' along with a lint free cloth. Straining the varnish through an old pair of tights or similar also does wonders at getting rid of those extremely annoying tiny high spots. A good sanding is also essential when getting to the third coat so as to keep the coats perfectly flat.

Greg
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2011, 02:57:24 pm »

Hi All,

Sorry you haven't heard anything from me for a few days - Ann (aka SWMBO; Light of my life, joy of my days; or even better third (don't ask)), took a tumble last week and broke her leg. In consequence, the house has been upside down for the last few days, and we're only now back on to a reasonably even keel (how's that then, nautical terminology in all things!)
She's recovering, and should be OK in time.  In the meantime, I'm on to my fourth method of preparing eggs on toast.

Back to the boat.
Two episodes this time, one to talk about stems and rudders, and the other to look at Kitchin rudders. Ignore the second part if you wish, as Natterer didn't in the end get such a rudder, but I've included it out of interest.  Sorry about the quality of the diagram - it looks great in Excel, but still haven't figured out a way to attach it to a post - can anyone help?


‘Natterer’ – A shipbuilding Odyssey? – Part 7


At the end of the last article, I had finished the main hull timberwork, and proposed starting a little metal-bashing by way of a diversion. Like all tasks, this became a major engineering operation in it’s own right, and took some considerable time to get sorted.

The parts I’m referring to are the protective brass strip down the stem, and the rudder with it’s supporting skeg.
The stem strip was tackled first, using 1.5mm strip brass, and a big file. The strip is 17mm wide over the stem-head, but then narrows down to about 6mm where the planking fairs into the stem, before slowly opening out again to the full width of the keel at the forefoot. The stem-head has a complicated double-reverse curve over the top, and I found the simplest way to achieve a really close fit was to bend the brass strip to the required shape, then sand the wooden stem-head to suit the pre-bent brass. When all was correct, the brass was bedded into wet varnish on the stem, and screwed down firmly.

Next I tackled the skeg, which extends the line of the keel under the prop far enough to give a firm base for the bottom of the rudder shaft for the rudder. This was fabricated out of a sandwich of 15x15x1mm brass angle and 1.5mm brass strip, as I couldn’t get a suitable channel section, and incorporates a vertical section running from keel to the underside of the propshaft, mainly for strength, but it also looks good! Everything was bolted together, and then sweated with soft solder to give a firm fabrication.
The assembly was screwed into place, and then I carefully marked out the positions of the rudder tubes.
No, you haven’t mis-read – I did say tubes. Bat (On which ‘Natterer’ is based – come on!) has an ordinary rudder, which is mounted in the standard location, to the rear of the prop. However, she was at one stage owned by a gentleman called Kitchin, who used her as an experimental test-bed when he designed the Kitchin Rudder. This is a rather unique rudder which acts partly like a Kort rudder to give great manoeuverability, and partly like a jet engine’s thrust reversers, to give reverse motion with the propeller still running as if moving forward. The rudder was adopted experimentally in the Royal Navy for steam pinnaces and the like, but eventually fell out of favour as it was found that if the reverse was selected when running full ahead, the forces generated could (and did!) pull the transoms out of the boats. The forces are much less in model form, and the big advantage is that the boat can be put ahead, reversed and be held stationary in the water, just by operating the rudder and with the engine still running full ahead. This has great potential in a model steamboat application, as reversing a steam engine of the form being used can be tricky.
Anyway, the upshot of all this is that I wanted the ability to mount a Kitchin rudder if desired, and hence a second rudder tube had to go in forward of the normal one.
Both rudder tubes were drilled with the hull upside down, using a special long thin drill bit with the skeg as a guide, and then opened out to full size using a fabricated hollow drill cum hole-saw, slipped over the drill bit. Brass tubes were then glued in, to give perfectly aligned shafts.

Apart from the above, a little more work was carried out on the engine, with the result that the connecting rods were finally turned out of solid phosphor bronze stock. I then spent eight hours or so bedding in the crankshaft to the engine bed, and the con-rods to the crank, so there is no play or tight spots. A very boring operation, but one that has to be done to ensure the engine doesn’t knock itself apart in the first hour or two.
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2011, 03:06:44 pm »

And the article on the Kitchin rudder.

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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #39 on: October 28, 2011, 03:10:27 pm »

It would probably help if I actually attached the article
Doh!


The Kitchin Rudder

So what’s a Kitchin Rudder? Well, around the turn of the century (1900 that is), a gentleman by the name of Jack Kitchin lived at Windermere and designed a rather unique rudder and reversing gear for steam launches. Jack Kitchin did all his development work on his own steam launch – ‘Bat’, so at one stage she mounted a Kitchin rudder.
This device was made in two halves, each shaped as in Fig. 1, and curved so that when mounted on a boat, they formed a cylindrical shell, as Figs 2 & 3.
Each half of the rudder was controlled by separate shafts, one mounted within the other, and with two tillers.
The two tillers were connected to a yoke on a screw thread, which was itself mounted on a single tiller extension, as Fig 4.
 
When moving forwards, the water flow is straight through the rudder, as Fig 5, but if the tiller bar is moved to port and starboard, then both halves of the rudder move together as a cylinder as in Fig 6, and the prop wash is deflected to one side or the other so as to steer the boat.
If however the tiller is held central and the handscrew wound anticlockwise, then the two halves of the rudder move back and together so as to meet behind the prop as in Fig. 7. The nett result is that the prop wash is deflected forward out of the rudder and the boat moves back.
A little thought will establish that the engine can be run ahead all the time, and that it is possible to find a position for the rudders as in Fig. 8, where the prop wash through the back of the rudders is balanced by the forward deflected prop wash so that the boat stays stationary in the water.
Now the really clever bit is that by combining the rudder effect and the reversing effect together, it is possible to reverse the boat and steer at the same time, as Fig.9, so that precise reverse steering is obtained! (also presents a nice little conundrum – in the illustration is the boat moving backwards to Port, as it is the port side of the boat, or to Starboard, as the stern is moving to the right?)

The rudder was adopted experimentally by the Royal Navy, but fell out of use before the second world war.

Kitchin was a prolific inventor, and was the first to control a boat (Bat again!) using radio control in 1904 from the top of Queen Adelaide’s Hill above Windermere. Apparently he stuck his gardener in the boat with instructions to keep stoking the boiler and touch nothing else – the man was terrified as he was sailed all over the lake!

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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2011, 05:39:15 pm »

Hi All,

Ann now has her leg in a cast, the cats are terrified for their tails whenever she moves, and I've learnt another dish to add to my meagre culinary skills.  So time for another episode!


‘Natterer’ – A shipbuilding Odyssey? – Part 8


I concluded the last piece with a short piece on the mechanism and operation of the Kitchin Rudder, which I was contemplating trying out on ‘Natterer’. Well, that was the idea, but I commenced by building a mock-up using stiff card, and concluded that whilst everything would fit, and the rudder would probably work, it all looked rather oversized. It didn’t look good, so I temporarily put that particular part of the project into abeyance, and proceeded with the conventional rudder for the time being. Might still come back to it as an experiment later!

I now concentrated on the completion of the engine, together with the construction, from castings, of the boiler feed-water pump. The pump is used to continuously top-up the boiler whilst under way, and is driven off  the main crank via a worm and spur gear. The castings were originally produced as an accessory for Stuart Turner’s Double Ten Steam Engine, so I had to modify the mountings somewhat to fit the Launch Engine, and also machine the bore oversize to increase the capacity.

Talking of bores (hopefully not this meandering narrative) I’d realised as I investigated the boiler that the Stuart launch engine was much more powerful than I needed, and that it would consume an awful lot of steam.  The solution was to sleeve down the bores from 1” to ¾”, which reduced the power somewhat, but more importantly, halved the steam consumption to a level the boiler could easily handle without running flat-out.

Once all the machining was completed the engine was fully dismantled, cleaned and painted, and re-assembled. It looked the part and came together very well. Initially very tight, as it should be, and I ran it on the lathe for about eight hours to loosen it up (I’d upgraded the lathe by now to a Chester!). Whilst being driven in this way, the engine actually acts as a pump, and I was getting quite a good suction on the inlet – boded well for the future, as leakage should be quite low when I eventually came to apply steam.

The engine runs at between 30 and 90 psi, so I didn’t envisage any problems in turning the crank – full 90psi pressure equates to a load of about 36 lbs on each piston face!

Time to test the engine!  Rigged up an airline from the garage compressor, built up pressure to about 30psi, and cracked open the valve – IT WORKED! – It just started of it’s own accord, ran quite happily, and reversed with no problems when I pulled over the reverse lever. Jubilation – the crankshaft cranked, the valves valved, and the pistons – they worked too.  Ann said my grin ran from ear to ear.

The other area I turned my attention to was the boiler, and here I installed superheater coils and feedwater heater coils in the smokebox. It looked like an absolute serpent’s nest of copper pipe, but at least it all fitted! In all likelyhood, the ‘superheater’ just acts as a steam drier, but never mind. At the other end of the boiler, I produced a facsimile of a full scale boiler face, with a fully riveted smokebox complete with lift up cover for access to clean the boiler tubes. All done in copper, later to be painted in special high temperature paint.

Talking of heat, I machined the mountings for the twin turbo gas torches that fire the beast – equivalent to two gas blowtorches working together – frightening – decided to call the burner ‘Smaug’

Next, it was time for a bit of testing and so tentatively turned up the heat on Smaug – thankfully it all worked, and I didn’t end up with a pile of smoking ash.

(I despair of Microsoft – their spell checker can’t even recognise words like “superheaters”, “lbs”,
 “smokebox”, etc. Doesn’t everbody use these words all the time?)
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kiwimodeller

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2011, 08:47:21 am »

First of all let me say this is a great series of articles - keep up the good work. Second of all let me say that I have never tried a Kitchin rudder but I have built two boats with variable, revesable pitch props and I have another bigger prop for a future project. The conclusion I have come to is that having the variable prop and a conventional rudder is a great setup and easy to install. The prop can be run on a small pitch and small throttle opening which is very economical on steam and yet give it full pitch and a little more throttle and the boat goes really well. I think the control is much smoother and finer than using a throttle and reversing gear to reverse the engine. It would be good to hear others opinions. Cheers, Ian.
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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2011, 01:33:21 pm »

Hello Ted,
Let's hope poor Ann is fully functioning before too long or you'll be frying those eggs and browning the toast with Smaug!

Very interesting about the Kitchin rudder which is not something I've heard of previously and very neat although as it turns out not terribly practical.
The engine, boiler and burner is a most impressive item in its entirety; fire, steam, intense heat and wood I still see as an unlikely combination and can imagine a certain amount of trepidation when first fired up!

Thank you again,
Roger
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2011, 11:10:37 am »

Ian, Roger,
Thanks for the comments - always good to get some feedback, and to look at people's experiences with different systems (particularly about the Kitchin rudder)

I did look at installing a variable prop into Natterer at a very early stage, for exactly the reasons you cite, Ian, but felt my engineering skills weren't up to it, and there wasn't a commercial item available at the time (Remember this was in 1997!). So I ended up going down the conventional route, but making provision for a Kitchin rudder sometime in the future.
It's probably fair to say the Kitchin rudder was actually very effective in it's operation, as it gave superb directional control, particularly in reverse - the problems arose when the Navy put it into the hands of ratings who were possibly not properly trained in it's use, and didn't appreciate the forces involved.  After all, you wouldn't expect to drive a car at 70 and suddenly engage reverse gear? Perhaps it's a pity the Navy didn't persevere and develop practices/procedures to suit, and also strenghten their boats as necessary.

On a model level, is there anyone out there who has actually built a Kitchin rudder for their boat?  I mentioned in my post that I found the rudder to look very large for the boat, but I'm now wondering whether the nozzle effect of the rudder means you could use a smaller diameter prop, and correspondingly smaller rudder, which would look better.  Also interested in how you control the rudder - I was proposing to use two servos, one to move the tiller arm, and another mounted on the tiller arm to control forward/reverse.

Come on people - lets have your ideas/comments!

Ted

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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 11:35:29 am »

Hi Ted,
This is worth a look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJKx1wnQnVU

It leads to this which is a great start!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1183127

Roger
 
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steamboatmodel

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #45 on: November 04, 2011, 11:38:57 pm »

Roger bet me too it with the links, unfortunately work on mine has been stalled by home repairs.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2011, 05:14:53 pm »

   Roger, Gerald,
Thanks for the links - most interesting.  It's as I thought - the system seems to work very well, particularly in reverse, and the rudder buckets seem substantially smaller.  Control method as I envisaged too!

Pleased to say my old friend Bryan has fired himself into life, and contributed the following - I've taken the liberty of copying it across from the topic where he put it, as more suited to this one.  Bears out what I was saying - good system, more training required!

 
Bryan Young
Full Mayhemer

 Offline

Location: Whitley Bay. Northumberland. UK
Posts: 3,261   
Re: ‘Natterer’ Praise
« Reply #4 on: Today at 03:30:34 PM »

Huh, now I'm really hurt and more than a little offended. Reprobate indeed. How can you call such a fine upstanding pillar of the community a "reprobate" (well, upstanding is fine when both legs are working).
I think I'll give this topic a miss from now on and preserve my blood pressure. You lot can stick with steam pressure.
    However, talking to Ted yesterday (Friday) we got to discussing the "Kitchin" rudder etc. and I mentioned that many of the Admiralty 36ft work boats were fitted with this arrangement....the gear worked fine, but most of the QMs lost the plot...one actually running over (over) a jetty in Malta and chucking his 50 passengers into the harbour.
I'm sure their must be Mayhem members who recall these things (?). Don't tell me, tell Ted. BY.
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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2011, 06:59:49 pm »

Hi Ted,
Here is a most interesting link with detailed pictures.
Roger

http://www.scribd.com/doc/22236032/Kitchen-Rudders-Going-Full-Circle
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thelegos

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2011, 07:04:12 pm »

And right here on Mayhem (as I should expect of course)

Roger

http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2328.0
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Ted Welding

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Re: Natterer - A shipbuilding Odyssey?
« Reply #49 on: November 08, 2011, 09:39:23 am »

Roger,

Many thanks for the links - I thought someone would know something, and Bryan was sure there had been postings on Kitchin rudders in the past!

Ted
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