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Author Topic: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"  (Read 8903 times)

Jimmy James

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"Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« on: September 27, 2011, 07:15:11 PM »

Bet You Can't Make This Sail !!!! That was the challenge made at Ron Deans Show when I acquired an unfinished Billins hull of the sail training ship "Danmark"  It's shaped like a needle??? OK what can I do... She should be ship rigged but thats tricky... a working full rigged ship's spars are heavy and ballasting may be a bit tricky so I think I'll rig her as a 3 masted schooner with provision to re-rig as a Barquentine (Square rigged on the fore and fore and aft rigged on the main and mizzen) with a small ballasted fin keel ....
  BUT that May all change ... Remember I don't use plans But build by eye . For my first trick... I shall remove a section of th main deck and the center of the frames ,,,first
  to make room for elec gear and to shed weight as in this build weight is critical :-))
Jimmy







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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2011, 07:35:59 PM »







 
 The deck has been removed and I'm starting to bucher the frames Cutting the out centre of the frames should remove 12 to 14 oz of unwanted weight with no loss of hull strenth also it will allow me to waterproof the inside of the vessel as she was built as a display model not a working model and more than likely the builder didn't use water proof glue (I don't know who the builder of the hull was but He---She did a cracking job)  All for know
Jimmy
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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2011, 01:38:26 AM »

This looks like it is going to be a very interesting project Jimmy  :-))
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2011, 08:16:50 PM »

 TT
 I'm beginning to wish I hadn't taken it on ..." the Ruddy thing has more bulkheads than the Bismarck" I've used up half the cutting heads on my Dermal and have still got to cut out the transom formers and 3 bulkheads.. the trouble is the space is so restructed at the stern and I've got to trim off just enought to get the rudder tube ,post & the steering yoke in,  but not so much that the counter falls off  ( the bulkhead and 3 formers are 1/4 inch Ply & the planking is only about 64th) The slightest brush with the Dremal at 3000 RPM and I'm through the shell planking ... the alterative is to remove it a bit at a time by hand and that will take forever.
  Oh! well I'll Carry on
Jimmy
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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2011, 09:05:06 PM »

Hi Jimmy,
Its one of the joys of model building.
Keep up the good work.
After a really stupid period at work, and taking on to much "other" drawing of historical NZ wooden boats, have finally got back to converting the 'Black Rose' to r/c.
Even though I had allowed for this in the original build, I'm now finding that some things have to be modified, especially around the rudder post under the main cabin, and now that all the sides are in place, I'm trying to work down a well like space that simply do not accommodate my hands and fingers.
Also now need the space between there and the windless on the deck. And this space is a sealed compartment. have to break through the bulkheads at each end. Fun. Will be using the windless to controll the mainsails thanks to your suggestions and sketches. Will post them when I've got it all worked out.
Sorry for the sidetrack.
Keep up the good work
kiwi
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 08:51:52 PM »

Kiwi
Any side tracks welcome . I'm going to have to make a tool to remove 5/8 ths of the transom frames and not damage the shell planking and I'm not really sure what shape its got to be probely like a Kukri or a hockey stick sharpend on the back side
Jimmy









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derekwarner

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 10:10:01 PM »

Captain Jimmy

If is not too late....you could consider  %)

Use an electric laminate trimmer [Makita 3700B name & model springs to mind]
Make a number of light depth passes....1/16" at a time
The tungsten carbide cutter will remove the decking & frames & any brass pins found along the way  O0
The trimmers standard parallel guide used against the hull outer surface will provide a mirrored profile

The reason I suggest this that I am planning in my modifing my ten year old never completed paddler [5' POF hull @ 1:24 scale] to a 1:12 scale & need to lower the deck & sponson's by approx 1 1/4"

The image below is the planned result  %% ....Derek  
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rickles23

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2011, 08:52:33 AM »

Hi,
To make it sail, reduce the weight add a keel box and a decent fin and keelweight.
No problem.
Regards
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 07:19:07 PM »

Derek
  Nice to hear from you again, thanks for the Laminate trimmer idea (Wish it had come sooner)I adapted a flexey drive to my dermal and using a 3/4" circle saw blade managed to hack out the required amount of timbering its knot very neat but it works OK and is still W/T. I've just sloshed 1/4 pint of marine varnish around her Innards
so work will have to stop for 3 or 4 days until it dries (I knew you couldn't resist building her {{Side rudder an all]] :} :}
Rickles 23
    Thanks for the idea of the keel box, I must admit it is an elegant suggestion unfortunately it will add the amount of weight and take up space midships I cannot afford
    The hull is so narrow that I will have to single bank the servos... I think I will  have to reinforce the garboard's and bolt a 1/4"perspex keel about 12" long X 6" deep with a bit of lead on the bottom as she is to be a sailing model not a display model I think this might be the best idea
 HER measurements are
LOA 32 1/2"   BEAM 5 1/4" Draught 2 3/4"   Freeboard 1 1/2"  Sorry I can't get my old brain around this Metric stuff When I was in the Navy, a Brown job 75mm Gun was a 3" Gun to me A 4" Gun was about 100mm  and so on [all wrong I know but it's close enought for Goverment work]
Jimmy
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 12:08:32 PM »

 The varnish has dried and I shall hope it keeps her W/T . I once was offered a planked hull that had more stealer's in it than planks. I Thanked the lady nicely but said I had several models on the go and didn't want to take on anymore  .. So I'm allways suspicious of hulls I haven't built my self
 Right to the build Rather than chop up the stern post (Danmark had an engine this model won't)I'm making an unusual Simi - balanced rudder to see if she will steer
 I have also slotted some dowels in temp. to get an idea what she will look like
Jimmy









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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2011, 12:26:57 PM »




  Thats all for now
Jimmy
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Martin [Admin]

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2011, 01:39:25 PM »


Hey Jimmy,

 Why have you got the three propshafts sticking up through the deck?!?!  :P
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meatbomber

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 10:09:31 PM »

Remember my Bounty was only 26cm LOD and ship rigged with independent yard control! so I BET YOU CAN make this one sail :D
Another interesting Jimmy James build !

cheers mate
Phillip
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 07:19:48 AM »

Phillip,
 Of course she will sail the question is how well ,. I'm looking for something that is really controlable and looks good on the water it goes with out saying with this knitting needle shape she should be fast but because of the shape she probably won't turn very well so I'm' hopeing a rockerd keel will turn (PUN)the trick
 \\\she might eventuly end up ship rigged but I'll start with a 3 stick schooner. then change to a barquetene evolving  posable to a barque or even a ship.
Jimmy

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meatbomber

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 08:37:01 AM »

Dunno but all my schooners are much harder to manouver than the Ship/brig. I found that if i leave at least a fore Top'sl rigged i had it much easier tacking than in a pure schooner rig.
I think the Barquentine is probably the best compromise here :)
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2011, 09:26:14 AM »

Phillip
 You have obviously discovered that keeping the fore sails aback will help you tack by pushing the bow through the wind and also making stern way and reversing the rudder you can steer the stern around and put you on the new tack ...It seams obvious when you learn the trick but many people even when shown how to do it can't
  thats why square riggers are so few on the ground people think they are too complicated to rig and sail  when you and I know they are really very easy
  Jimmy

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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2011, 09:34:15 AM »



 Hows this one
 Name unknown
Jimmy
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meatbomber

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2011, 10:07:58 AM »

while a nice rendering itīs not really accurate..

Running afore teh wind i`d wager the stays`ls be taken in as they`s be becalmed, and i doubt anyone would set studing sails on both fore and main like that :D

I think most people are put off from square rigger models because they try to sail with all braces slaved together... taking away all the advantage the square rig his in manouvering and then they end with a ship that is hard to tack, doesn`t go to windward well etc...
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derekwarner

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2011, 10:24:19 AM »

very perceptive ....meatbomber.....

I have little experience with sail.... :D ....but found the sizing of the birds a little difficult to contemplate  >>:-(

Scaled in @ 3m  [3000 mm] wingspan.......... {-) %% >>:-(

Derek  :o
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2011, 08:14:24 AM »

The picture is (I believe) the US Frigate Constitution  when she escaped the British squadron in the 1812 war ... I agree it is unusual to have so much sail set But if you had a British "74" and 2 heavy Frigates dropping iron work close to your transom perhaps a modicum of panic might set in  OR more than likely the artist went by description and used artistic licence while not really knowing the subject
Jimmy
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2011, 10:02:56 PM »

 A bit more done. the 100/1 geared motor for the capstan is as I feared is going to be too tall so I am going to get around this by putting it on a pedestal and making a fetcher of it. ( I decided last night to rig her as a Barquentine thats the advantage of building by eye I've got the plan in my head and can change it any time)
Jimmy








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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2011, 10:37:38 PM »



 The deck house on older sailing vessels was called the round house [even thouth it was'nt round]
 Jimmy

 
In older ships the Foc'le [crew's quaters] was the triangle right forward in the bow's or eyes of the ship but greedy owners wanted this area to stow extra cargo so they built a wooden "house forward of the main mast and called it a top gallant foc'el ...The seaman hated this with a passion It was noisy, hot in summer, freezing cold in winter and used to get flooded in gales and there are plenty of records of the whole thing being washed over board in heavy weather. What price the Glory of sail now...

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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2011, 11:26:41 AM »

 100/1 winch motor for driving the capstan that trims the yards




 the motor is a bit long so I will build a small raised platform ... But it could also be mounted horizontally and run through The poop or foc'el bulkhead
 Jimmy
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 07:48:42 PM »

 Fitting the new perspex sailing keel and reinforcing keel blocks (Keel is 1/4" Perspex)







 The Keel was a 12" x 12" x 1/4" perspex costing Ģ3.00 from Kings Lynn Glazers,nice people there in the workshop.
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Jimmy James

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Re: "Bet You Can't Make This Sail !"
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2011, 12:31:54 PM »

 Rudder and capstan...the capstan motor is married to the underside of the hatch and the spindle comes through the deck ready to put on the capstan drum ... remember this is a working capstan used for swinging the yards ... the rudder is semblance so hopefully it won't have to be glaringly over sized
Jimmy











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