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Author Topic: I need advice please help :(  (Read 4608 times)

darrencuk

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I need advice please help :(
« on: October 04, 2011, 04:36:32 pm »

Hello there guys I need a bit of help with the situation I'm in,
I brought a product from a model boat shop (I'm not going to name the company as I don't want it to seem like I'm bi***ing I just purely need advice on what to do) over a week ago bug it still hasn't arrived I rang the shop and asked them they said they sent it out 1st class and it should been with me next day and it's down to the royal mail can any one help advice on where I stand on this as I'm pretty clueless when it comes to things like this as I have never had it happen before :(
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john s 2

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 05:04:09 pm »

How was the item sent by the shop? Was it sent recorded delivery? Or prove of posting? Or just sent through the Post. Were you told how it would be sent? If the item was of value was it suggested that it should be insured? What is the reaction of the dealer?.Once we know these things then im sure the lads can give you more advice.John.
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 05:36:49 pm »

I rang them when I ordered item they told me it would be 2.50 for first class delivery never said about anything else, the gentlemen on the phone said it's down to royal mail Not him he said it's not his responsapilty if things go missing
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tt1

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 05:44:13 pm »

How did you pay? (assuming you have)  If he has proof of posting it's down to him to sort it with his despatcher, if he hasn't and you've not received it then it's down to him period.  I'm sure others will advise.         

                         Good luck and regards, Tony.
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 05:52:18 pm »

I paid by card the money has already left my account for it :(
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tt1

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 06:08:58 pm »

Get in touch with your card provider first and explain to them the circumstances, esp if it was a credit card, they may be able to help.

        Good luck, trading standards offer excellent advice on how to go about a resolution to this.   Tony.
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Tug-Kenny

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 08:31:06 pm »


Can you put your location into your Profile so that we know roughly where you are. I'm assuming the model shop is outside your travelling distance and that you are in the UK. 
 
The good news is that you are protected by your credit card so I would advise contacting the shop after a reasonable amount of time and not to worry.

regards

ken

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Craig Dickson

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 06:54:39 pm »

Hi Darren

Did you get a satisfactory outcome to this issue?

The key legal question that needs an answer is, ďAt which point in the process is the seller deemed to have delivered the product?Ē I would think (though I am far from certain) that unless agreed terms of sale stipulate otherwise, delivery is the point at which the item reaches its intended delivery address ie you. Trading Standard or the CAB should be able to clarify this important point.
In my opinion a reputable established seller would usually with small price items simply send out a replacement after a reasonable time to allow for delayed delivery. That way their reputation remains intact. For higher priced items it is in the best interest of the seller and buyer to have them despatched by a more secure and traceable method of delivery.
Your unfortunate experience does actually provide a lesson for sellers and buyers alike.
If you paid by credit card (as others suggested) you may have some comeback. However for small priced items you may find that a chargeback claim is below a pre-specified limit.

Please update us on your outcome, hopefully a good one.

Cheers
Craig
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 09:39:02 pm »

Hi thanks for all your advice guys I rang the shop again today they said I need to call them Monday if I still haven't received it Starting to get bit annoyed now tho the shop owner doesnt seem very interested I guess I will jus have to wait and see :(
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Craig Dickson

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2011, 10:21:20 pm »

Hi Darren

Things I think are now looking a little more positive :-))

Hopefully your purchase will arrive before Monday. If not, give them a call and say, "It still hasn't arrived and I am phoning as you suggested...... Please could you kindly send a replacement."

You should also reasure the owner that if the original does eventually arrive you will let him know so that it can be returned.

If the original does arrive by Monday,  I would telephone regardless and let them know.

Cheers
Craig
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tt1

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2011, 01:32:17 am »

Darren did you buy through the 'net' i.e ebay, Amazon or the like?  I assume you paid direct to the vendor and not by Paypal or suchlike, you'd have no problem whatsoever if it was by Paypal, anyway good luck. If it arrives before Monday would be interesting to see the post date.

Regards, Tony.
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 08:13:58 am »

It was ordered through a very well model boat company over the phone
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Marks Model Bits

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2011, 08:33:35 am »

Have you actually confirmed with the shop that they took down your address correctly? After all mistakes do happen occasionally especially if they were busy.....  Also the Royal Mail won't consider post 'lost' until after 15 working days trying to chase up RM before this time has elapsed won't prove fruitful ..... I know, I have tried!!!

Hope it all gets sorted..
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Circlip

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2011, 11:06:52 am »

Make sure if Royal Mail are going to reimburse you, they don't try the "Book of stamps" route, INSIST on cash or cheque repayment despite what their terms and conditions state.

 They tried it with me. After putting in a claim and hearing nothing, I had a reply saying that they had replied to my claim and sent the obligatory book of stamps . . . . . . . . to the wrong address.

  It's up to the Sender to claim and also reimburse you directly.

  Oh yes, First class mail, £3.50 to send a package for next day/24Hrs delivery? recipient hasn't received it yet, posted in JUNE 2010.

   Regards  Ian.
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tt1

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2011, 03:28:55 pm »

If as I think you were meant to say,  your purchase was from a well known / reputable dealer, then I doubt very much if they would not resolve an unfair deal, especially if voiced on a model forum such as this - not good for business methinks. Totally agree with Circlip who is absolutely right, the onus is on the vendor to resolve not you.

                                Regards, Tony.
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ACTion

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2011, 05:35:20 pm »

It's up to the Sender to claim and also reimburse you directly. 

That's always been my understanding, too. Royal Mail don't regard anything as "officially" lost until three working weeks after posting, but that shouldn't prevent the vendor from replacing it before that date - especially if the value is small and they are a reputable company. It's called goodwill, isn't it?
Dave M
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The long Build

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2011, 05:46:56 pm »

My understanding is that is is the sellers responsibilty until you have the item in your hand, and even then you can return it 14 days for a full refund under the distance selling rules or such..

If the item has gone astray it is the sellers problem to chase it up with royal mail and to issue a replacement, should the Item Turn up I would hope that the Buyer would be honest and either return it or maybe agree to buy it depending on the item.

 Can a consumer cancel an order before they receive the
goods or where goods are lost in transit?
3.35 Yes. Where the DSRs give consumers rights to cancel, this right is
unconditional. If consumers cancel before they have received the
goods you must refund the total price of the goods, including any
delivery charges. Consumers who have cancelled under the DSRs
may refuse to accept delivery of the goods. Refusal in such a
situation cannot be treated as a breach of contract.
3.36 Where goods are lost in transit from you to the consumer you will
need to either send new goods or offer the consumer a full refund,
including delivery charges. See paragraph 3.20 for more information.
Instances where cancellation rights do not apply
(Regulation 13)
Can consumers cancel an order in any circumstances?
3.37 No. The cancellation provisions do not apply to contracts referred to
at paragraph 2.20. There are also statutory time limits for consumers
to exercise their rights to cancel, as explained at paragraph 3.22.
3.38 Unless you have agreed that they can, your consumers cannot cancel
if the order is for:
n services where you have had the consumerís agreement to start
the service before the end of the usual cancellation period and you
have provided the consumer with the required written information
before you start the service, including information that the
cancellation rights will end as soon as you start the service
n goods or services where the price depends on fluctuations in the
financial markets


http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf
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Circlip

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2011, 06:17:41 pm »

Quote
Royal Mail don't regard anything as "officially" lost until three working weeks after posting

 Yes, that's a superb dragger - outer by RM. A couple of weeks ago, a mate purchased a laptop from a private seller on next day delivery. The seller packed and weighed the parcel and affixed the correct postage and despatched it. In less than twelve hours RM contacted the seller to inform him that the price on the parcel was less than it should be and would he come to the despatch depot and add the extra.

 The guy went straight to the depot to be advised that they couldn't find the package?

   All this in less than 24 HOURS

  I'm just about to submit another claim for non delivery to me mate in the Fiddlepines. Two parcels sent the same day within seconds of each other (Cos they had to be weighed). Took far longer than the 15 days max advised (Small package Airmail), one arrived, the other hasn't.

 Don't know whether it still occurrs, but RM used to have an auction every three months of non delivered items???

   Regards   Ian.
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2011, 09:55:03 pm »

Thanks for all your advice guys hopefully I get this sorted there one of the main model boat shops in uk so hopefully they will want to protect there name
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 04:43:54 pm »

Hey guys just an update I rang the company today the guy on the end the phone didn't seem best pleased as he tried saying I had to approach royal mail myself but after the advice from u guys I was able to tell him no it's not my place to we argued for a bit due to the fact he wanted to send me out another one but they werent due instock until the begging of next month so I asked for a refund he took my details again to run refund through so fingers crossed i get the money back soon thanks for all ur help guys :)
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Circlip

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2011, 06:15:33 pm »

Trust you asked for the refund to be via Recorded Delivery?

  Regards   Ian.
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Craig Dickson

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2011, 06:32:46 pm »

Trust you asked for the refund to be via Recorded Delivery?

  Regards   Ian.

The usual method of refund is electronically to the same card as used for the original payment.

Darren, could you let us know (out of interest) the approximate value of the purchase?

Cheers
Craig
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darrencuk

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2011, 08:20:47 pm »

It came to £35.00 all in
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justboatonic

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2011, 08:46:49 pm »

My understanding is that is is the sellers responsibilty until you have the item in your hand, and even then you can return it 14 days for a full refund under the distance selling rules or such..

If the item has gone astray it is the sellers problem to chase it up with royal mail and to issue a replacement, should the Item Turn up I would hope that the Buyer would be honest and either return it or maybe agree to buy it depending on the item.

 Can a consumer cancel an order before they receive the
goods or where goods are lost in transit?
3.35 Yes. Where the DSRs give consumers rights to cancel, this right is
unconditional. If consumers cancel before they have received the
goods you must refund the total price of the goods, including any
delivery charges. Consumers who have cancelled under the DSRs
may refuse to accept delivery of the goods. Refusal in such a
situation cannot be treated as a breach of contract.
3.36 Where goods are lost in transit from you to the consumer you will
need to either send new goods or offer the consumer a full refund,
including delivery charges. See paragraph 3.20 for more information.
Instances where cancellation rights do not apply
(Regulation 13)
Can consumers cancel an order in any circumstances?
3.37 No. The cancellation provisions do not apply to contracts referred to
at paragraph 2.20. There are also statutory time limits for consumers
to exercise their rights to cancel, as explained at paragraph 3.22.
3.38 Unless you have agreed that they can, your consumers cannot cancel
if the order is for:
n services where you have had the consumerís agreement to start
the service before the end of the usual cancellation period and you
have provided the consumer with the required written information
before you start the service, including information that the
cancellation rights will end as soon as you start the service
n goods or services where the price depends on fluctuations in the
financial markets


http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft698.pdf

What he says.

Despite what the model shop tells you, royal mail does not have a contract with you to deliver the goods. The contract is with the model shop. Any non delivery is for the model shop and RM to sort out.

You need to inform the model shop that you expect delivery of the goods within a period of time ie give them to the end of the week. Tell them if the goods have not been delivered by their agent you expect either full re imbursement or replacement goods to be sent to you.

If the model shop will not do this or, the goods are not delivered by the end of the week \ time you stipulate, your options are:

If paid for model by credit car and for £100 or more, invoke S75 (I think) of the credit Act which makes the credit card company 'jointly and severally' liable ie they must refund you and seek redress with the retailer.

If you didnt purchase with a credit card, you can issue an action via the small claims court for non delivery and fulfillment of the contract.

However, you must ensure you can show you have exhausted every avenue with the retailer to the court since the courts do not look kindly on them being the first point of action in any dispute.

HTH
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Craig Dickson

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Re: I need advice please help :(
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2011, 08:49:43 pm »

It came to £35.00 all in

Hi Darren
Thanks for your reply. I have spent my 30 year career todate in Credit Management in the trade supply sector, meaning supplying retailers with our products.
When it comes to delivering products via a third party, the choice of delivery to your customer is in fact a difficult balancing act.
To be ultra competitive at the lower price points rules out the traceable delivery methods. However that does involve risk to the supplier should a non traceable despatch result in a claim for non delivery as in your situation. And indeed there are folks out there (not you) that will order a product that way knowing that after getting the goods they can claim a refund or end up with two consignments and potentially sell the second (freebee) on line (no web sites mentioned).
In my personal opinion these situations are always best resolved by both parties seeing the situation from both points of view. That may involve an aspect of compromise. I think we need to look at this from both points of view, that of the seller and that of the purchaser.
Cheers
Craig
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