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Author Topic: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?  (Read 4968 times)

BournemouthBoater

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Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« on: October 26, 2011, 09:16:25 PM »

Hi,

Being fairly new to model boating I've only just found the Fusion Aquapower range of speed controllers, e.g. http://www.logicrc.com/?ItemId=P-FS-AQP128&s=c:0,c:50,c:50-30,c:50-30-10,c:50-30-10-20

Can't find a mention of them on the forum, does anyone have any experience with them? They seem to be a good price for such high powered controllers.

Thanks
Gloves
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john s 2

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 12:35:47 AM »

The spec seems high,but does state 18 turns or more motors.Which rules out most boat motors except high speed ones .Im also not impressed by the start up procedure.John.
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Klunk

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 07:09:39 AM »

Got the. Lower amp one in my Atlantis, seems ok but it really only used as a back up when the wind drops!
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nick_75au

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2011, 05:32:46 AM »

The spec seems high,but does state 18 turns or more motors.Which rules out most boat motors except high speed ones .Im also not impressed by the start up procedure.John.

18 turn or higher means milder motors, increase in turns = slower motor and less amp draw, so in actual fact will include most 500, 600 and very mild 700 motors.


Going by those specs a motor pulling those sort of amps would be a charred lump of dead weight in short order. Realistic amps would be about 20-30 maximum.

Quite a laugh when you see Molex/Tamiya connectors on a ESC with 940 peak amp rating {-)

Nick
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 08:31:51 AM »

what is the the standard turn then? whats the benchmark level to what high turn and low turn motors are measured?
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nick_75au

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 08:48:56 AM »

Turns is  an archaic way to describe the Kv of a 540 brushed motor (makes it easy for boy racers to pick a motor and ESC), its the number of winds on the armature, a standard 540 has 27 turns, a high rpm motor may have as few as 4 or 5 turns and the crawler motors range from 35 to 100 or more turns. The more turns the higher the resistance of the motor so it draws less amps but has lower Kv. A standard 27 turn 540 has a Kv of approx.  2250 Kv, 18 turn about 3400Kv, a 60 turn is about 1100 Kv etc.

Graupner rates their motors in voltage, the higher the "stated" voltage the lower the Kv and it will have more turns than a lower stated voltage of the same can size.

Nick
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 09:07:13 AM »

so then that esc will be fine for boats. apart from having a brake and need a bit of water proofing of course. I use a car esc and fortunatly for me was stated in amps rather than turns. From your experience what would an 18 turn compatible esc be in amps?
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nick_75au

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 09:17:01 AM »

Depends on the prop and gear ratio, but realistically putting more than 20 amps at 7.2 volts through a 540 is asking for trouble regardless of turns.

The ESC should have no problem in a boat.

Nick
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 09:20:04 AM »

what i mean is say for instace the esc says it can handle i dont know 12 turn motors. what would that be in amps for boat use? 50A?
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nick_75au

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 10:09:39 AM »

And here lies the problem with turns. Like I said in the previous post about 20 amps would be the maximum, the lower turn motors can pull more amps but will still fry at any-more than running than a stick pack of Ni-XX is run. Use a 5000 mAH Li-po at 30 plus amps and I will guarantee the esc will fry, if the Tamiya connector hasn't melted in the meantime. A 12 turn motor may only get 3-5 minutes before the battery is exhausted which limits the heat generated and so gives the ESC time to cool down.

The ESC is not designed for sustained running of more than a few minutes at high amp draw, there is no active cooling, the heat sink isn't big enough. water cooling the sink may improve the amp capacity to 50 amps as heat is being actively taken away.

Nick
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 10:23:53 AM »

ah i see. i have this esc for my boat i got it for a tenner including pnp:

http://www.gshobby.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1067_1071&products_id=18735&zenid=bd59621c47d0aea1bc55e4e53a31861d

i was considering using it to run dual 540 motors with 30mm props would say thats a bad idea then.
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 10:45:58 AM »

The spec seems high,but does state 18 turns or more motors.Which rules out most boat motors except high speed ones .Im also not impressed by the start up procedure.John.
Wrong way round.  It includes all but a very few motors, the high speed, low turn types being the excluded ones.  For a given size of motor, and the buggy types always assumed a 540 size can, fewer turns means more amps, because there is a shorter length of thicker wire in the space available.  The low turn motors will always draw more current, even when unloaded, but in a boat its the propellor fitted that ultimately determines the current drawn.  Size, shape of blade, pitch, skew, blade section and number of blades all contribute to or detract from performance, and do so differently at different speeds, so there will probably never be a "this is best" chart that will sort out the best combination.  If there was, everybody would be using it and there would probably only be one style of prop available.
The "safety" start-up, to me, indicates sloppy programming, and could lead to some tricky moments out on the water.  With a buggy, if it stops unexpectedly,you can walk over to it and manually wake it up.  This is difficult on water, and a safety feature like that could become a dangerous liability.
The relatively short duty cycles anticipated for racing might help to account for the high current ratings claimed by many oriental manufacturers, and it may well be that for the length of time it took to drain a "normal" battery, (under 5 minutes) it was adequate to be considered, in those terms, "continuous".  Planning to pull that kind of current in a boat for, say, 20 minutes would be overly optimistic.
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BournemouthBoater

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2011, 04:32:54 PM »

Hi all,

This turned out to be a lot more educational than I thought it would be! Thanks for all the replies.

I think in future I'll be sceptical of high amp claims unless there's a water cooling solution attached, and also when number of turns are mentioned it's a clue that the ESC was designed with RC cars in mind.

To comment on malcolmfrary's message, specifically the lack of a 'this is best' chart - maybe it's my inexperience but what about something like a static thrust benchmark, done with 2 or 3 representative prop types, giving prop size and pitch, rpm, thrust, volt and amp draw. I've only built one boat so far and have been struggling with performance issues, I wish I had some kind of chart to go by, or that I'd spent more money going bigger than what I thought would be sufficient!

Regards
Gloves
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 01:08:26 AM »

what boat have you got  :o
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BournemouthBoater

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2011, 11:03:03 AM »

Hi Mike,

I've got the wood hull 37" Precedent Perkasa. Its fairly heavy for its size I think.

I've got 2 545 motors running off 2 9.6v nimh packs (in parallel) with a 40amp mtroniks speed controller. I was running 2 2-blade 35mm props but have now switched to 2 3-blade 30mm props with less pitch. The motors run a lot more efficiently with these props and I haven't noticed much difference in speed, although in general its not as fast as I'd hoped it would be. I'll be playing around with different prop sizes to see what difference they make, I'm thinking of trying some 2-blade X type 30mm props - but its all trial and error!

My next boat is on the drawing board and isn't a 'fast' type boat, so when the time comes I might take the Perkasa gear for it and buy something better for the Perkasa, maybe 9.6v Graupner 600s?

Cheers
Gloves
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2011, 11:55:19 AM »

For controlability, 545s are good.  For performance, i.e. speed, 3 pole 540s are better.  Performance demands power, once you have the power, you need the right prop to translate that into moving water.  545s with the appropriate prop will shift a lot of water, but relatively slowly (bigger prop, not turning as fast).  540s will move the water faster, again, with the right props (small props, turning faster).  Then you run into the trade-off between speed and run time.
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2011, 01:30:28 PM »

get to ebay cheapy 540 motors and 2 ebay cheapy 32-34mm 2 blade plastic props and your off.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tamya-540-Electric-Motor-/170720056290?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item27bfb553e2
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2011, 03:38:11 PM »

Might be a good idea to question why they are cheapies.  If you want to mod your car to go faster, you don't normally start looking at the cheapest components.
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2011, 03:44:00 PM »

well i know someone who used em and it made his boat faster. i used a 540 motor from a car tyre pump it was only 4 quid lol, doesnt have to be expensive to work {:-{
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2011, 04:03:33 PM »

Just thinking back to the infamous attractively cheap 550s that were, and keep reappearing on, fleabay.  Mainly good for discharge testing batteries.  A lucky find for one might well, for the next buyer, be a total lemon.
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2011, 04:08:56 PM »

those are tamiya/mabuchi motors
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malcolmfrary

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2011, 06:51:58 PM »

Either the seller can't spell, or these are a no-name special with a name spelling to sound like a well known maker (Tamya rather than Tamiya).  When fitting out a single motor boat, it is reasonable to take a chance and experiment a bit.  With a two motor boat, especially one that has considerable value to the owner, matched motors are highly desirable.  A big name maker is likely to have reliable products, in the unlikely event of a failure, a replacement is more likely to match its mate in performance.  Also, for the value of the model, is shaving a few quid off the cost of a fundamental part really worth it?  I say that from the point of view of being reasonably well known for keeping my budget down (i.e. tight old git).
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2011, 07:08:36 PM »

i think theyd be ok there the same as this one taken out the tamiya kits:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAMIYA-SILVER-CAN-MOTOR-RS540SH-RS540-SH-540-BNIP-/250688122421?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3a5e2d2e35

anyway i suppose your right.
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BournemouthBoater

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2011, 12:22:01 PM »

So, is there a 'most efficient' size prop for 540 and 545 motors? This would probably be the prop that lets the motor run at max efficiency when at full throttle (not static of course)...

What type of motor is a Graupner 600 by the way - I believe it has the same can size as a 540/5... so what's the difference?

Thanks
Gloves

PS my father used to fly electric planes, and they seemed to have the motor/prop selection better defined, but I guess it's more critical when too little power could mean the destruction of your model.
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MikeA

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Re: Aquapower Speed Controller - anyone used them?
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2011, 01:15:27 PM »

for a submerged prop i personally find that if you match the diameter of the prop to the diameter of the motor your in the right league. 540 motors do not produce the torque that a 545 does so you can go a little bigger with a 545 motor, but a 540 motor is a faster motor. what is the diameter of the propshaft?
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