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Author Topic: Newbie needs Help!!!!  (Read 4170 times)

Darklord

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Newbie needs Help!!!!
« on: October 29, 2011, 01:10:26 PM »

Hello there.
I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to sailing yachts, and i need some advice about the way the sails should be connected to the 'winch' motor.
I've only ever used boat with electric motors in them so this is all a complete mystery to me.

I have acquired a sailing boat as a project. She is complete with rigging, but the booms have none. She is also missing the electric's from inside. But the only thing rattling around inside is this 'winch motor'. The rudder i can understand but the way the rigging works is whats puzzling me.  {:-{
Forgive me and my sailing terms but I don't know the technical names for parts of a sailing boat, so keep it simple...
Right the yacht...

From side on, she has a single mast and two sails. The main triangular sail behind the mast is attached to a boom, the boom has an eyelet underneath about halfway along it. The little triangular sail one at the front is also on a boom, but is attached by a swivel to a multi holed bracket on the bow.

The cabin in the middle has a small finger size hole in the roof

There is a small tube which points upwards from behind the cabin and one at the front. (The tube bends inside to point at the other one)

Looking at it from the top, bow upwards. There is an eyelet just above the rear tube, then moving upwards we have the hatch cover. Then a rear eyelet just behind ant to the left of the finger sized hole and then two eyelets in front of the finger sized hole but over to the right and are inline with each other.

The mast has the option of three holes to go into.

Sorry to sound a bit thick and confusing, but I'm scratching my head as to how and where the string goes.  {-)
Am i right in thinking that the winch motor runs the string in some kind of loop around the yacht?
I know i refer to the rigging as string, but if anyone can tell what I should use please tell me and i can get some.

So that's it. I just want to have a go at sailing this yacht because it looks more challenging that just 'razzing' around with an electric ship.

Cheers  ok2 
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tr7v8

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2011, 02:19:23 PM »

I am a beginner at this as well but my Marblehead which came fully rigged has a continuous loop running fore and aft, on top of the deck this moves over a length of 10inches total, 5" backwards, 5" forwards. To this are attached bowsies (sliding pieces of plastic) which have a short line attached to them to each of the sails via each ones pivot point through the deck.
It is worth getting a book such as the Chris Jackson one as he explains & draws it much better.

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rmaddock

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2011, 04:53:10 PM »

Some photos might help? 1,000 words and all that  O0

There are two ways of using a sail winch. The first has been described above. The second uses a single line, rather than the closed loop, but includes springs (or similar) to take up the slack.

The slack is the problem here. The closed loop never goes slack....hence its use. Using a single line though can go slack and thus come off the winch drum.

It's definitely a drum type winch is it? And not an arm on a servo?
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tigertiger

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 11:02:52 AM »

Some photos might help? 1,000 words and all that  O0


Yep, definitely pictures would help a lot.
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Darklord

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2011, 11:21:32 PM »

I'll try and put some pictures up. I'm not very computer savvy so bear with me  {:-{
I've been out today with my other boats, and another chap at the lake had a sail boat and he kindly let me look inside it.
I see what you mean about a 'Closed loop' and i think this is what my yacht uses.
Pictures coming soon...
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Darklord

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2011, 11:56:24 PM »

Right, here we go. Don't laugh.













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Darklord

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 12:03:38 AM »

Ooooh!  :o
That seemed easy enough. Thought I was going to have to use my confusing photo bucket account.
Right so, there you go. I now know what the sails are called.  {-) Main sail and fore sail.
Will i need swivels to attach the line to the booms? Let me know your expert opinions chaps. As I said, I don't know much about sailboats.
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tigertiger

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 01:27:55 PM »

OK it looks like you have already identified the through-deck fairleads
"There is a small tube which points upwards from behind the cabin and one at the front. (The tube bends inside to point at the other one)" This means you don't need a loop around the deck.

These are for your sheets (bits of string) to run through. You may find below deck that one fairlead projects lower in the hull than the other, by a few millimeters. If so, the upper is for the upper part of the winch drum, the lower fairlead is for the sheet on the lower part of the drum. Also, use bits of string that do not stretch, I use 25kg Dacron line from sailsetc.com, but any model sail supplier will have it.

I would rig it like the diagrams below.

You need tensioners, otherwise every time the books go slack the sheets will jump off the sail winch drum. You can use elastic, or shock or the very fine elastic thread may be better. Any kind of ring will do, as long as the sheets can run freely.

Also both the sheets should be wound around the drum (upper and lower) in the same direction, so that when you turn the drum it will be pulling both sheets in or letting both sheets out, together. The usual norm for sailing boats is that when you pull the stick back on the radio transmitter, this pulls the sheets in. Stick forward is sheets out. Sails usually on the left stick, rudder on the right stick.

You can use snap links to attach the sheets to the boom. Before attaching, use the winch to haul in all the sheets all the way, including the trim on the radio transmitter (maybe a helper is needed). If you don't do this, you can end up over tightening when you pull the sheets in and cause damage (there is a lot of torque in some winches).

Then tie off the sheet to the snap link (adjust it) so that the jib and main booms have similar angles to the second picture. This gives an efficient 'slot' for air to flow over the main sail. This makes it sail better.


The holes for the mast are to trim the boat, more on this later.
I am sure others can offer a bit more detail on this one.

Good luck, she looks a nice project.

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tigertiger

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 01:39:32 PM »

Your sail winch is causing me some confusion.

Most modern sail winches only have 3 wires. Yours appears to have 5  :o

If it is 5, then post a question on the electrics board on here.

If you still don't get an answer, then you could swap it out for a new one.

Mine only have ever had 3 leads and they are wired to the receiver thus:
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Darklord

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 08:47:37 PM »

Thank you Tigertiger.
I'll be working on it tonight so your advice had been greatly appreciated.  :-))

So no loop of string around the yacht,  just use the fairleads and fasten the end's of the 'sheets' to the sail booms (Books?) with snap links?

The winch is a fairly old thing which I havn't tested yet.  {:-{
It has a sticker with 'Whirlwind sail winch 6.0v max positive pulse' on it. And the other side has D H Andrews on it with an address. As for the five wires i think two are plus and minus for a battery and the other three go to the reciever. I'll find out when it goes BANG!  {-)
It looks as though it had been mounted just under the roof of the cabin and the drum had been sat on top of the yacht (The finger sized hole) I think I'll mount it indoors out of the way of the water.  
If I have any more issues I'll no doubt be asking more questions.

Cheers
Darklord
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knoby

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 11:23:38 PM »

Hi Darklord, you are quite correct, your sailwinch is a whirlwind & very good they are too !  As you have worked out 2 wires are for the battery connection, the other 3 are for connection to the receiver. The sail winch also provides power to the receiver, so you don't require a receiver battery

Glenn
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knoby

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2011, 11:26:33 PM »

Here is all the tec info i can find on the winch:
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tigertiger

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 11:34:08 AM »

Hi Darklord, you are quite correct, your sailwinch is a whirlwind & very good they are too !  As you have worked out 2 wires are for the battery connection, the other 3 are for connection to the receiver. The sail winch also provides power to the receiver, so you don't require a receiver battery

Glenn

Ah! A bit like using a 'Y' lead for the battery pack.
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tigertiger

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 11:40:02 AM »


So no loop of string around the yacht,  just use the fairleads and fasten the end's of the 'sheets' to the sail booms (Books?) with snap links?


And don't forget the tensioner or you will get a bird's nest below decks.

It could be a previous owner had this problem and elected to remount the winch above decks. Then run the sheets through the screw eyes. This makes sorting out any tangles much faster. Well that would be my guess. This would work but would not be as elegant.
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Darklord

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2011, 10:45:19 PM »

Thank you guys for your comments.  :-))

I'm going to use the fairlead set up and mount the sail winch internally. I've tested the sail winch and it works (winds out when stick is pushed forward. It then winds itself back to it start point when the stick is released, then winds in when the stick is pulled back, then returns to normal when the stick is released.) it also has a 'set screw' to limit the number of turns in/out. (20 turns max- min)

I'll post some pictures soon on how the build is getting on.

Once again Thank you.
Steve.  :-)
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tigertiger

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2011, 01:45:17 AM »

Hi Darklord, you are quite correct, your sailwinch is a whirlwind & very good they are too !
[/quote

Who supplies them?
UK or USA
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Darklord

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2011, 11:13:16 AM »

The winch is made in the UK.

The boat had a scrap of paper with it with some instructions about the winch.
The name at the top is : DAVID H. ANDREWS. and the address is 49. Aberdale Road, West Knighton, Leicester. LE2 6GE.
I probably imagine he might of moved by now or he could be on here somewhere?

The instructions are typed with a proper old typewriter (Remember them?) and not with a computer.
Like i've said the boat is very old and so is the winch.
I hope this helps?
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knoby

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Re: Newbie needs Help!!!!
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2011, 12:54:18 PM »

Alas whirlwind winches are no more  :((
A real shame as they are great winches
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