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Author Topic: OTW Vanguard help  (Read 78498 times)

Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #100 on: November 29, 2011, 10:34:58 AM »

That must be a very small pump then, as the orange ones aren't exactly huge!

You could always get some lexan/polcarbonate sheet, you can bounce that off the walls and it won't break.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #101 on: November 29, 2011, 11:02:47 AM »

The main problem with the 1st rack was that it needed a large hole for the pump to fit into the tube the second problem was the drop from 3 foot workbench which I will not be repeating. plus space was a bit tight now though it looks a little bit neater with more room on the surface for fixtures and no big hole for the pump to be fitted
thanks for the tip on the lexen though Andy.

Regards Mark
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2011, 10:23:47 PM »

Picture of a French made Orange water pump and the new smaller pump purchased from Halfrauds which will be fitted in place of the larger pump the smaller pump pumps just as fast as the larger one but runs a little bit warmer.




Regards Mark
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Andy_k

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2011, 10:49:22 PM »

Hi Mark the new pump you got there looks a lot like one I got from a local factors I found it gave a lot of radio interference thats something you want to check out before installing it
Andy
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Right which one will I do next?;)

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2011, 10:56:02 PM »

Thanks for that Andy will check it out before it gets fixed down I noticed that their is no capacitors across the electrical contacts if it do`s produce interference I will try fitting them

Regards Mark
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #105 on: December 03, 2011, 01:22:20 PM »

Finely got the front tek rack finished after a couple of false starts. I think it looks quite neat both on top and the underneath. The two micro switches allow the pump to pump both ways, with the pinch valve holding back the water in the tank when submerged. Cant wait now to order the Sub hull from OTW in the next couple of weeks. I only have to sort the motor mounting and some sort of seal (simmering ??) for the motor prop shaft connection.


picture of the top side of the tek rack.



picture of the underside of the tek rack.

the radio Rx will be fitted on the underside below the pinch valve.

Regards Mark.
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Patrick Henry

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #106 on: December 03, 2011, 02:03:51 PM »

Looks very nice work Mark...now make sure that this one is safe when you put it down on the bench!
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #107 on: December 03, 2011, 02:13:14 PM »

That looks good.

Simmerring is just Freudenbergs trade name for an oil seal.

A 4mm shaft on the vanguard is about right. You can purchase them in quantities of 25 at a time from BSL Brammer (google for your local branch) who distribute Freudenberg products here in the UK, or you can purchase them in smaller quantities from the likes of Engel or Norbert Bruggen- a bit more expensive that way. There are companies over here that also supply small oil seals.

http://modelluboot.de/Zubehoer/Dichtungen.html#WDR

The other method used for sealing shafts is a compressed o-ring gland. That's what you have in the Akula. A little more friction, but not very much, and o-rings are cheaper and easier to source.

Have you decided on a motor yet?

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #108 on: December 03, 2011, 03:49:00 PM »

I have got a couple of Graupner Speed 600 eco motors but I have just noticed they run on 7.2 volts hope to run on 12 volts so they wont do the job. open to suggestions on the motors Andy.

Regards Mark
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #109 on: December 03, 2011, 05:02:55 PM »

If you want a 500 size motor,  the Graupner 500E is a 12 volt motor which will give about 12000RPM at 12 volts. This will need gearing down, to around 2000-3000RPM to drive the propulsor,  which means reduction somewhere in the region of 4 or 5:1.

MFA/Como do a nice 12 volt 500 size motor with planetary gearbox at 5:1 already fitted, which is worth investigating- http://mfacomodrills.com/gearboxes/942d_series.html

Whether you go for the lower or upper end of that RPM range is dependant upon the performance you are after (scale speed will be about 3.5knots). The Vanguard is a long streamlined sled of a boat, so quite slippery.  The propulsor looks very cool, but doesn't appear to be as efficient as a conventional prop in model form (too many blades I think). To further complicate matters, the propulsor you will get is different to the one I have. Dave Merriman made new masters for the propulsor (along with the sail, rudder and hydrovanes) going from a 15 blade design to an 18 blade design with a different blade shape.

Both the earlier prop and the later prop were tried out in Jim's Vanguard at the Summer Dive-in, the later 18 blade prop proved to give better thrust.

However I have carefully reworked my propulsor by re profiling the blades of my prop to make them thinner, sharper, and give them more curve.


thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #110 on: December 03, 2011, 06:03:50 PM »

Thanks for the info and the link Andy. I think I will be going for your suggestion on the motor have looked at the site just got to work out if a motor and gear box will fit.

Regards Mark
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #111 on: December 03, 2011, 06:34:05 PM »

You might also want to have a word with Jim or Bob at OTW and ask them what combination they use.

Really I can't see any alternative to using a gearbox, unless you use a very large motor direct drive, or go brushless. Robbe have a new motor out, which is smaller than a speed 400 yet because of its low kv (300) it can swing a 60mm diameter prop direct drive (nice and quiet).  8)

http://www.robbe.de/roxxy-bl-outr-c35-30-45-300kv.html

Haven't seen anyone run a brushless motor in a scale sub over here in the UK, but they seem to be catching on with European modellers.

One slight disadvantage of sensorless brushless motors is their low speed running characteristics are somewhat inferior to sensored brushless or brushed motors. Not that big a deal unless you really have a desire to creep around at very slow speeds!

timsenecal

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #112 on: December 03, 2011, 11:46:47 PM »

You might also want to have a word with Jim or Bob at OTW and ask them what combination they use.

Really I can't see any alternative to using a gearbox, unless you use a very large motor direct drive, or go brushless. Robbe have a new motor out, which is smaller than a speed 400 yet because of its low kv (300) it can swing a 60mm diameter prop direct drive (nice and quiet).  8)

http://www.robbe.de/roxxy-bl-outr-c35-30-45-300kv.html

Haven't seen anyone run a brushless motor in a scale sub over here in the UK, but they seem to be catching on with European modellers.

One slight disadvantage of sensorless brushless motors is their low speed running characteristics are somewhat inferior to sensored brushless or brushed motors. Not that big a deal unless you really have a desire to creep around at very slow speeds!

subculture...  

i found it also here:
http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2426&osCsid=c8tvqrg9gprhe3522cr09tkor5

it was easier for me to read the english version  :-)

at 35mm diameter, it is the same diameter as a speed 500, larger than a speed 400, but at 31mm long, it is much shorter than either a speed 500 or a speed 400.

only other problem some might have is that the shaft is 4mm, not the typical 3.17 of a 500, or 2.4 of a 400.

I have had quite a bit of experience with brushless in submarines, and this 300 rpm motor would be great for any who use 12 volt batteries.  when in the water, the higher end (himaxx, axi ) outrunners don't cog, but the cheaper chinese ones do.

thanks for the heads up on this.


edit:

i found this one also on Engel:
http://www.engel-modellbau.eu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=108_217&products_id=2425&osCsid=c8tvqrg9gprhe3522cr09tkor5

its identical to the first, but 500kvm...  more appropriate for those of us using 2 lipos (7.4volt) ...
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Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2011, 09:57:31 AM »

Do you own a Vanguard, Andy?

David
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2011, 10:48:34 AM »

Yes.

Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #115 on: December 04, 2011, 11:06:52 AM »

Oh good.

It must be new. You haven't mentioned it before.
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2011, 02:46:43 PM »

Thanks for that andy hopefully Jim might happen across this thread, if not I will P.M. him and ask him I could also ask Bob at OTW when I order the hull thanks again Andy for the good advice you have given me throughout my WTC build

Regards Mark.
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2011, 03:40:15 PM »

the higher end (himaxx, axi ) outrunners don't cog, but the cheaper chinese ones do.

Some of the cheaper outrunners are really good, and some not so good. I find it's the accuracy of the magnet spacing that tends to influence low speed running of outrunners. I found Emax outrunner motors were a bit variable in this respect. Also the ESC's have improved over time I think.

I found a forum for electric vehicles that hold a very long thread showing some creative ideas on how to retrofit large outrunners with hall sensors.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15686

Folk use them for making electric bicycles, and they find if they use them in sensorless configuration it tends to knacker the controller. The same principles apply to smaller outrunners, and with cheap reversible sensored controllers available from Hobbyking, it's worth investigating.

Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #118 on: December 05, 2011, 05:00:24 PM »

Quote
Quote from: U-33 on November 06, 2011, 02:50:38 PM
What subs do you run, Andy?


A brief reply, as this is hijacking John's thread. Working at present- Seehund, Skipjack, Shark, Holland. I was hoping to trial the Skipjack at Brockwell, until Fusion cancelled on me. I rarely run the Seehund these days as it doesn't fit in the back of my mini very well. I was thinking of converting it to LiFE batteries as the old Pb batteries are getting a bit long in the tooth.

In the works- Aquabat, Yellow Submarine, Nautilus and Kittredge K-250 P-Submersible. The Aquabat is actually using a 3S 5A lipo pack, as it fitted well in the 200mm 80mm wtc I made for it. I'm planning to use LiFE batteries in the other three though.

 So I take it you have obtained the Vanguard within the last month, Andy?
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #119 on: December 05, 2011, 05:19:18 PM »

No.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #120 on: December 05, 2011, 07:31:56 PM »

do`s it realy matter when Andy obtained his Vanguard the fact is that Andy is comming up with a great bit of help for me on this thread I dont care when Andy got his models any models I asked for help and Andy kindley gave help and also supplied links of interest to me which I again thank ANDY for.

Anyway I think Andy that I will be going for the MFA motor geerbox combo seems a reasonable price and with the info you supplied and data sheet on the site the one you suggested ticks all the box`s

Regards Mark.
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #121 on: December 05, 2011, 07:46:21 PM »

Also just followed the link for the Robbe brushless motor and speed controler for the motor. Just finished paying the mortgage off dont need another one  {-) {-)
the two togerther were over 100 would rather spend 22 on the moto/gearbox then another 20 squid on the speed control but anyway thanks for the link Andy andfor the English version timesenical

Regards Mark.
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Sub driver

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #122 on: December 05, 2011, 07:54:49 PM »

Hi mark. If you are looking for a motor for the vanguard. Have a look athe robbe navy compact. 600 size motor fixed onto a 4 mm shaft through a 3:1 gearbox. Its powered my vanguard for the last 14 yrs and still ok. Its driving a 3 inch 10 bladed impellor. Hope this is of use. Check out april 1998 model boat mag for pics of it installed. Regards sub
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batfish

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #123 on: December 05, 2011, 07:58:04 PM »

Or try puffin models 6.1 epicyclic gbox for use with 300/400 motor. Mfa 385 or possibly an electronize 360.
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #124 on: December 05, 2011, 08:17:04 PM »

Thanks sub driver and batfish will be investigating even further now before spending cash.

Regards Mark 
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