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Author Topic: OTW Vanguard help  (Read 78517 times)

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #325 on: March 10, 2012, 10:25:09 PM »

Thanks for the explination David now I know what I am looking for will report back with observations

Regards Mark
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Patrick Henry

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #326 on: March 10, 2012, 10:32:57 PM »

Good luck Mark...I have the maiden voyage tomorrow of my Little Fella, here's hoping for fair weather and calm waters.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #327 on: March 10, 2012, 10:42:49 PM »

I mean each propeller is moving in opposite direction but with different speed?  {:-{

Only the propeller spins. The other stators remain fixed, as the water is sucked in through the nozzle it's drawn over the fixed stators which produce a counter torque to keep the boat on an even keel (hopefully).

merriman

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #328 on: March 11, 2012, 12:00:53 AM »

Thanks for the explination David now I know what I am looking for will report back with observations

Regards Mark


Thank you, sir.

David
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #329 on: March 11, 2012, 09:54:09 AM »

Good luck on your maiden voyage as well Rich. going to be at New Brighton in about an hour.

Regards Mark.
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batfish

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #330 on: March 11, 2012, 09:59:41 AM »

Enjoy mark!!!

Get a wriggle on with traf.

Regards

Adam
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #331 on: March 11, 2012, 03:33:02 PM »

Adam as I type this the plans are on the table just got a few tweaks to make to the Vanguard then we will be go go go on the Traf

Regards Mark
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #332 on: March 11, 2012, 03:47:43 PM »

Well what a day at New Brighton it was a bit busy but got the Vanguard in the water and she went really well got a few small niggles to sort out she sits a bit high in the water at the stern so much so that the cowl sucks air in when going forward and causes cavitation is much better when the ballast tank has a bit of water in. The stern also drops when submerging I thought I had sorted that with the foam I had put in but I think she needs a bit more. On running forward their is no torque roll from the sub unless you apply full power from a dead stop. I think that what was happening in my pool was the water was washing around the pool and causing what looked like torque roll. going from full forward to full reverse causes torque roll but that is to be expected apply the throttle slowly and all is OK. Once the sub was trimmed she steered in a reasonable straight line I don't think their is any discernable `prop walk`. The water was a bit choppy this afternoon but the sub handled really well over all I was very please with the run I had. The wife took a couple of pictures but unfortunately the camera was set wrong so they didn't come out too well I have put the two best ones on here plus their is a link to Jan's Video on youtube. Hope you enjoy.






And the link to the video: http://youtu.be/9QufpN6ZSzI

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #333 on: March 11, 2012, 04:15:28 PM »

Looking good. The prop is ventilating when near the surface, always a problem with spindle stern boats.

Seems to heel over quite noticeably with a cross wind, you could try a little more lead in the keel and some foam below the waterline to counter that.

Looks about scale speed wise, was it running full throttle in that film?

Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #334 on: March 11, 2012, 04:50:44 PM »

Could I say how good that is looking, Mark!

And REALLY good for a maiden voyage.

You can afford a little more lead in the stern, I think. More foam and lead over the next few trials can improve the roll stability - it looks fine anyway.

You must be "dead chuffed"!

David
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bijou

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #335 on: March 11, 2012, 04:57:40 PM »

HI,
Only the propeller spins. The other stators remain fixed, as the water is sucked in through the nozzle it's drawn over the fixed stators which produce a counter torque to keep the boat on an even keel (hopefully).
[/quote]
Now I understand. ;)  :-))

When was developed these system?.In a real world did working?.How come no one uses this system is if so revolutionary?!
THANK YOU SIR.
            MARIUS
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merriman

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #336 on: March 11, 2012, 05:00:13 PM »

Thank you for sharing, Mark. Looking good.

If overall buoyancy in submerged trim is near neutral, then you don't want to change the net buoyancy or weight. Here's how to fix that ass-end droop when the boat transitions to submerged trim: If you have any foam in the forward superstructure, above the waterline, then move that aft, above waterline -- this will help get the stern up in submerged trim. Check the plans again -- your model appears to be sitting too low in surfaced trim, Mark.

And your video: video dropped out between 6:50 and 9:00, but audio continues. Other than that, an enjoyable video.

And I share Andy's question: How much throttle was needed to get that beast moving at a reasonable speed?

David









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bijou

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #337 on: March 11, 2012, 05:10:26 PM »

MARK,
What battery did You use?.
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #338 on: March 11, 2012, 05:23:09 PM »

Andy, David Merriman, throttle was full stick on the radio but I had reduced the throw by 50% in the program mode of the F16 seems to keep the speed about right I think. David thanks for the suggestions on getting rid of the bottom end droop will try to sort it next visit to the pond, as to the video I dont know whats happend their it was fine when I edited it ah well will retry that as well.

David (Davy1) yes you can, and thankyou, waswell chuffed David

bijou battery is 12 volt 2.5 amp hrs happend to have 2 of these lying around

Thanks for all the comments

Regards Mark
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Patrick Henry

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #339 on: March 11, 2012, 05:52:07 PM »

Mark, that's excellent for a maiden voyage...my heartiest congratulations, old chap. A little tiddling and fiddling here and there and that will be a superb boat...I hope my LA turns out that good.




Rich
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #340 on: March 11, 2012, 06:00:43 PM »

Thanks for the comments Rich but less of the OLD, cheeky git ha ha ha  will be tinkering away until I get it right.
Wife has just informed me that after I have built the Trafalger I now have sitting on the bench she want me to get one of them yellow things you have been playing with,going to tell her later that if she wants one she has got to learn how to use it  O0 might save some money then which could be used towards my dream Typhoon.

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #341 on: March 11, 2012, 07:20:52 PM »

So just half throttle then. Good stuff, should pick up its heels once you get the trim dialled in right. Don't forget the FC16 has exponential, so you can dial in full negative expo and have 100% throttle, but the majority of the stick travel will be lower speed. That way you have the extra oomph on tap to get out of trouble, should you need it.

Trim wise, the spigot just below the upper rudder, which is the connection point for the towed array, should be just kissing the surface of the water, so you might get a way with a tad more weight at the back. It looks a bit low at the bow though.

Regarding a boat for your wife, have you looked at the Delfin from Norbert Bruggen? A little left field, and not a static diver like the Neptune, but what a lot of fun these look. Nice dimensions for smaller puddles. Bet you'll be fighting her for the sticks!

http://modelluboot.de/KITS/Delfin_Ordner/Delfin.html

http://vimeo.com/26566825

Norberts stuff isn't cheap, but it's very well designed, and the parts are good quality with straight forward assembly.

Bijou, propulsor technology was pioneered in the UK on the Trafalgar class, but has been adopted by the U.S, Russians and French, although their designs differ significantly in design to UK versions. Why aren't they used more? Well every country has it's own ideas on what constitutes good design, I guess some consider the disadvantages of propulsors outweigh the advantages. They do tend to place a lot of weight at the stern, which may not suit the smaller boats many navies use, and then there are the development costs to be absorbed. Also a fixed shroud hinders manoeuvrability, so not so great for boats engaged in littoral operations.


thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #342 on: March 11, 2012, 07:30:02 PM »

I will have to reread the manual for the F16 now then Andy. Thanks for the tip on the spigot. As to her being low on the bow thats got to be the batterie up front but I can slide a piece of lead a bit further rearward which will I hope put a bit more weight further back droping the stern and lifting the bow a bit thanks for them tips. Now as to the wife and a sub she realy likes the Neptune saying that we need one. suppose I could kill two birds with one stone she fancies one to put a video camera in so keeps her happy with the photography side of her id plus she gets to learn a new skill,Driving a sub. Jan says thanks for the links but she has her mind set on a Neptune

Regards Mark
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Patrick Henry

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #343 on: March 11, 2012, 07:37:53 PM »

You tell your wife she'll enjoy the Neptune immensely Mark, never mind about that old German stuff....get her a Neptune. Mine has worked perfectly since day one, and continues to do so...it's an ideal boat for the missus to learn to drive, just flood the tank down to wherever you want it, hit forward and that's it...off it goes.

A bit more speed wouldn't go amiss, but mine seems to hop along quite nicely once it gets a head of steam up.

And the benefits of having the wife as a sub driver and on your side...well, say no more!


Rich
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #344 on: March 11, 2012, 08:10:00 PM »

The Neptune's a good boat, but they didn't half rip off Norberts ideas, you only have to look at his Delta to see where they got their ideas from. Pound to a penny there's one of Norberts kits sitting in the R&D department of TT.

Be careful you don't knock the C.G out if you start shifting lead about to correct the trim. If the boat balances at the centre of the ballast tank, then I'd leave the lead weight alone, and home in on the buoyancy.

At the moment, when the boat is on the surface, you have too much buoyancy at the back, and not enough at the front. If you have any foam at the back which is below the waterline with the boat surfaced, you could chip away at that. If not then add some foam at the front below the waterline, which will raise the bow.  That will align your buoyancy with gravity, then you just add some more lead underneath the ballast tank to bring the boat to the right waterline. Then you will most likely need to do the same with the tank flooded.

REDDEVIL

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #345 on: March 11, 2012, 08:13:01 PM »

Nice sub and nice run. Let's add a tribute to our wifes standing us with our subs and coming with us to film tests.
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gingyer

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #346 on: March 11, 2012, 08:19:33 PM »

Looks good :-))
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Sub driver

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #347 on: March 11, 2012, 09:16:45 PM »

Hi Mark.
Nice vid and a cracking first outing...yours handles very similar to my Vanguard, must be the characteristics of the hull shape.

I still think its the best looking nuke out there..certainly beats my typhoon on looks. 
 
Well done once again.
Regards sub.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #348 on: March 12, 2012, 08:12:10 AM »

I will have to reread the manual for the F16 now then Andy.

If your manual is the same as mine, then the infromation on the exponential was added on as a separate sheet, which may be missing as yours was a secondhand set. If it is, go to this link and you'll find the expo instructions on page 105 of the PDF.

http://www.instructionsmanuals.com/u2/pdf/radio_control/Futaba-FC16-en.pdf

However I've noticed something I clean forgot- the exponential function isn't programmed to work on the throttle, works on the other three stick channels though. So you have a choice here, you can live without expo on the throttle, or you can swap a couple of the channels over inside the set (easy to do on the F-series radios).

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #349 on: March 20, 2012, 03:57:03 PM »

Fantastic Mayhem is back well done Martin and Thankyou for your hard work.

Have acquired a couple of levelers one for the Vanguard which has been fitted and will be tested at Hoylake or New Brighton on Wednesday the second is earmarked for the Trafalgar which I have tentatively started by finishing the drilling and filling of the flood hole in the bottom of the hull.



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