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Author Topic: OTW Vanguard help  (Read 78486 times)

Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #350 on: March 20, 2012, 04:01:05 PM »

I see you have the (slightly) larger leveller with the infra red receiver, so as you have a clear module you can set up all the functions using an old TV remote with the leveller mounted inside the cylinder.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #351 on: March 20, 2012, 04:03:27 PM »

Andy would a TV remote work ?? and if so how would that be used I have loads of TV remotes hanging around.

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #352 on: March 20, 2012, 04:07:45 PM »

Yep, that is the idea. Try one of your remotes (make sure the batteries are okay!), it won't harm the controller.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #353 on: March 21, 2012, 03:22:36 PM »

Well I took the Vanguard out today to New Brighton and ran with my Akula the Vanguard started suffering with bad Radio interference so much so that every time I applied power to the motor all other servos went off on one by them selves. Took the sub out of the water and removed the top interference was not as bas as when in the water. I double checked all frequency's being used and their was no clash so just put it down to general interference a passer by commented that it had happend before and was blamed on a radio mast on some flats  <*<. Anyway had a good couple of hours with the Akula which alwas runs realy well. Got home and decided to have a look at the Vanguard and low and behold the interferance was still their  >>:-( >>:-( couldn't believe it never had the problem before in the house or back garden, anyway striped the WTC down and moved the Ariel into the front WTC and guess what no interference at all. I think for some reason the drive motor has started to transmit on the 40 meg band checked the capacitors on the drive motor and they seem fine so  I am stumped as to why all of a sudden this has started to happen.

   Mark.
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Subculture

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #354 on: March 21, 2012, 03:50:47 PM »

That does sound very odd, assuming you haven't altered anything in the layout.

You can try fitting some ferrite rings to the motor leads, and the motor casing should be earthed, otherwise the capacitors aren't really doing a whole lot.

Hopefully the BEC is up to the task of powering four servos?

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #355 on: March 21, 2012, 04:03:32 PM »

Must have been a good day for it then...my Neptune is normally 100% reliable, but today for some reason the ballast pump failsafe kept kicking in and not letting me take on water to submerge. All she would do was to run about on the surface at half speed with the ballast pump continually in the 'blow' position and using valuable battery power.

Isn't there a huge solar storm going on though? Remembering back to my pirate radio days, these storms used to play havoc with radios and radio control systems.



Rich
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Rich

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #356 on: March 21, 2012, 04:50:17 PM »

Grimreaper.

Hi.
I had the same issue with my Engel Akula shortly after I built it, its the one with all the electrical add ons...fitted some ferrite blocks on all the power leads and it curred the problem for me.
Just check the receiver power too as subculture says, to be on the safe side try it with a separate receiver batt without the BEC and see what it does.

Hope its of use.
Regards Sub.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #357 on: March 21, 2012, 04:57:54 PM »

Sub Driver thanks for the tip but running off a 12V sla through a bec is a decent speed controler as well

Andy nope I havent altered anything capacitors across the terminals and onto the motor case, also Andy Ifound a loose ribbon cable in my F16 sorted that as well now

Rich sun spots they aint no sun here in the north west  {-) thought that all hit last week with a bit of a wimper so them in the know said in the daily rags

sorted now will give it another whirl on monday

Regards Mark.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #358 on: March 21, 2012, 06:00:58 PM »

Worth checking the wire that connects to the TX aerial too- they're known for working loose on the F14/FC16, it's a bit of a weak area on those sets.
On 12 volts the BEC is working harder than it would say on 7-8 volts. This is because anything over the regulated voltage (5v) is shunted to ground and burnt off in heat. That tends to reduce the BEC's capacity a bit. Most BEC's built into ESC's can deliver 1-1.5A maximum. That should be enough, but it does depend greatly on how your servos are set-up e.g. minimum binding/friction.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #359 on: March 21, 2012, 06:07:46 PM »

So realy I should not use the BEC and should go for a seperate power supply for the receiver and servo`s ?

   Mark.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #360 on: March 21, 2012, 06:11:30 PM »

No I would keep the BEC, but do bear in mind that they can sometimes cause problems if over-taxed.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #361 on: March 21, 2012, 06:43:54 PM »

Right got you Andy was thinking that it was better to run with seperate power for the radio side. If I think back to my U47 I had a similar problem with that until the St Albans meeting when a couple of guys sorted it but that was using a Hong Kong controler


Regards Mark.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #362 on: March 21, 2012, 07:40:42 PM »

With a BEC providing your main battery is well charged, you should always have a good, healthy 5 volt feed to your radio. A separate battery presents an additional failing load IMO.

The problem with BEC's on some ESC's is they're minimally specced, or poorly heatsinked, and are often poorly documented on what they can really deliver in terms of performance. That's why I stick with, and recommend certain ESC's especially for use in submarines which tend to be a bit more demanding than most model boats.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #363 on: March 21, 2012, 10:27:03 PM »

Oh naff.

Think I've discovered why the Neptune failed me today...I charged the main 12v battery last night, just checked it now and it's reading less than 11 volts, so it looks as though the battery is dying. It only had five minutes use today, so I'm thinking that's the problem, the failsafes are programmed to come in when the battery voltage drops to prevent the boat from submerging, or to bring it up by blowing ballast.

Now might be the time to get away from the low capacity gel cell (12v 2000ma/h) and think about a higher capacity NimHs pack...or dare I mention the word LiPo?



More expense.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #364 on: March 22, 2012, 07:10:53 AM »

Don't think Lipo will work well for you, as the pack voltage is lower- 3S= 11.1 volts. NimH or LiFE batteries are best course of action (12v and 12.8v respectively). Great thing about LiFE battery- they hold their charge when sat-up on the shelf, and they have a longer cycle life, on the minus side you need a charger compatible with them, and not that many are.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #365 on: March 22, 2012, 07:51:42 AM »

I think I'll go down the Paul Cook road and get a set of NimH cells...if I remember rightly Paul used two six volt 5000a/h sub C packs in his Neptune.

The gel cell has been on charge from 2200hrs last night and is only just showing 12volts.
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Rich

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #366 on: March 22, 2012, 08:31:54 AM »

Now it seems to have woke itself up...just put a meter across the battery and it's reading between 12.8v and 13.3v...
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #367 on: March 22, 2012, 09:09:13 AM »

Think you should start a new thread on this, Rich- taking Mark's thread a bit off track.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #368 on: March 26, 2012, 11:17:40 AM »

Some other things to try.

Is your water pump suppressed with capacitors? Some are, some aren't- the motors in some of these pumps can be very electrically dirty. Also ensure the motor casings are grounded, otherwise the capacitors aren't really doing anything.

Is your aerial run inside or outside the WTC? Running it outside will usually give better reception, but you need a watertight gland for it to run through.

Try and keep power cables and signal cables apart as much as possible- difficult in a sub I know. Twisting power cables together helps cancel out interference.

What brand of ESC are you using?

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #369 on: March 26, 2012, 10:58:54 PM »

Glad you asked that one Andy its a PODIUM FS-POD17T. I striped the fc16 today swaped channels over & which ever channel I ran the motor from their was severe interferance resoldered the capacitors, water pump is suppressed I did that from day one after someone on here mentioned they had problems went to maplin this morning and got hold of some ferrite rings. Striped all the wiring down twisted the cables to the motor clipped a ferritte clamp to that. At about 8PM I decied to replace the radio system with a tested unit and all works fine.I even replaced the receiver using one from a truck I have which I know works. Getting round to thinking of a possible incompatability between the radio and speed controller I also removed the red wire from the speed controller and used a seperate power supply for the radio.

    Mark.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #370 on: March 26, 2012, 11:17:20 PM »

So you've swapped out the receiver, or receiver and transmitter? Incompatibility between ESC and receiver would be very unusual, you have a Car ESC and the BEC may be struggling with four servos hooked into it.

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #371 on: March 27, 2012, 08:21:52 AM »

Thanks Andy I have removed the red wire from the BEC/Speed controler and ran the radio from a receiver battery pack with the same results all servos juddering when power applied. next course of action is to replace the stick and pots on the radio to put my mind at ease that its not a fault on the stick mechenism.

   Mark.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #372 on: March 27, 2012, 10:12:14 AM »

Also just compleated a couple of range checks on the radio as original set up when at the pond range at best was 6 foot. Took radio to bottom of garden and all servos flutter like crazy at just over 8 foot from sub
changed radio and receiver go to bottom of garden no servo flutter at all Radio fully operational across all functions
Take fc-16 and set up on kitchen table with 4 spare servos go to bottom of garden Radio fully operational over all functions only differance is that their was no speed controler connected in this test

am going to connect a spare speed controler next and check that out only problem is that the speed controler is a blue Hong Kong special with the magic smoke in it I know this cos I had 3 of em and 1 let all its smoke out and then wouldnt work  <:( <*<

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #373 on: March 27, 2012, 11:19:43 AM »

O.K. Conclusion has got to be that their is an incompatabilty between the fc-16 and the podium speed controller and BEC as nothing that I do will suppress the interfeirence I get when the motor is runing. As stated in last post have now connected the radio up to a blue Hong Kong speciel no blue smoke was emitted and everything worked ok no servo flutter no motor fluctuations what so ever. My Akula runs with an MTronics 20 amp marine Viper so I think I will be buying a couple of them and replace the controler I have now. Thanks Andy for the tips and help on this.

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #374 on: March 27, 2012, 01:23:50 PM »

Hi Mark,

As Andy says, it would be unusual to have incompatibility problems with ESC but Mtronix should be fine. (Mtronix and Microgyro are widely used.)

Remember that with model subs and lots of servos you are rather  "on the edge" of BEC circuits. Once one servo starts juddering the voltage drop can can get them all doing it.

I have moved over to separate switched mode BECs (I do still get some interference problems and Sub John warns against switch mode because of harmonics. You really can't win!)

You have done the right thing by simplifying (unplugging things) and swapping things but everyone's setup is different.

Personally, I made the biggest improvement in interference by moving to dual conversion receivers.

David
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