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Author Topic: OTW Vanguard help  (Read 78502 times)

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #75 on: November 23, 2011, 10:32:47 PM »

Success  :-)) ballast tank now sealed and holding over 1Ltr of water don't know whether to use an ESC for the pump or two micro switches, using an ESC will allow me to pump both ways with varying speed where as two micro switches will pump both ways but at full speed only. plus I would have to ask somebody in the know for a wiring diagram on how to connect two micro switches together to give forward and reverse on a motor.

Regards Mark.
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #76 on: November 23, 2011, 11:16:44 PM »

MAG speed control, second item down on the page- http://www.rctankcombat.com/articles/speed-control/

Sounds like you're using a geared pump, as opposed to the centrifugal type,

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #77 on: November 23, 2011, 11:42:54 PM »

Pump is one of these Andy but you cant see the cogs on mine because the one I have works HE HE HE (I hope David dosn`t mind but i nicked the picture from his topic on the AMS site )

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2011, 04:49:07 AM »

It'll take a while to fill the tank with one of those pumps. Unfortunately most geared pumps are a bit slow, a Kavan pump is a bit better, but would still take more than 30 seconds to fill up 1 litre.

I thought you would use a centrifugal pump like the Sheerline modules. The pumps used on cars with xenon headlamp washers are worth a look- designed for volume and pressure. e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Pressure-Headlamp-Washer-Pump-Audi-TT-98-/290580454074?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43a7f1daba

HS93 (RIP)

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2011, 05:11:24 AM »

It'll take a while to fill the tank with one of those pumps. Unfortunately most geared pumps are a bit slow, a Kavan pump is a bit better, but would still take more than 30 seconds to fill up 1 litre.

I thought you would use a centrifugal pump like the Sheerline modules. The pumps used on cars with xenon headlamp washers are worth a look- designed for volume and pressure. e.g.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/High-Pressure-Headlamp-Washer-Pump-Audi-TT-98-/290580454074?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43a7f1daba

 they make great bow thrusters , much better than a prop in a tube. they have instant push

Peter
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Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #80 on: November 24, 2011, 09:30:12 AM »

Nick away, Mark!  :D

I hope that you have read the rest of the thread on the AMS Forum, though. The red pumps are not the very long lasting pumps that they once were. They still fail safe though!

Which raises the point that the pump you use is so critical in model subs that just grabbing one from Halfords or ebay or a car scrap yard is not really good enough. You need to use one that is known to work well over the long term and that you can re-order.

That is why the present difficulties with the red pump are a bit of a nuisance because it has been the mainstay of the pumped pressure system for many years. (I have been in touch with the suppliers but I suspect that nothing can be changed because I believe that manufacturing has moved from France to China. I will keep you in touch if I hear anything more.)

David
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Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #81 on: November 24, 2011, 10:14:33 AM »

Just thought I would add a more positive note about these pumps, Mark.

They are still good and quick (a good part of  a litre in a few seconds even with the pressure system) and I'm still continuuing to use them (e.g ORP Dzik will be in the Barrow pond on Sunday.) Just treat them with a little more caution  than in the past.

Good luck with the build - it's  looking good!

David
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #82 on: November 24, 2011, 02:34:51 PM »

I think luck might be on my side with the pumps David both pumps that I have, have been hidden away for the last five years in a box in the loft that I had forgoten about was really made up when I powered them up and they both work and are reversable as well, but will be cautious with them anyway. Andy has kindly supplied a link to a seller on flea bay that sell pumps anyway so might just buy one of them as a back up. thanks for the info David

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #83 on: November 24, 2011, 04:49:26 PM »

My Chinese pump is good for half a litre in about 25 seconds with the pump running on 12 volts and against no pressure.  For Mark's Vanguard 1 litre tank you're looking at double that time.

You can still find the original French made pumps as dead stock in some model shops, they were distributed by Ripmax for use as fuel pumps and they're recognisable from the oriental versions as the plastic is light orange and matt in texture, plus they have the manufacturer and country of origin moulded into the case.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #84 on: November 24, 2011, 05:48:28 PM »

Tank was filled to approx 70% in about 40 seconds which I think is quite fast enough and was empty in about 1 min unpumped but approx 30 secs pumped which I think I will be happy with

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #85 on: November 24, 2011, 07:30:39 PM »

Fairy snuff. Should be close to a scale dive time- modern SSBN boats take several minutes to dive.

Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #86 on: November 24, 2011, 08:49:51 PM »

You have got some very good information there, Andy.

Can you let us all know which model shops have the red pumps as "dead stock?"
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #87 on: November 24, 2011, 11:06:10 PM »

308 hobbies had some last time I poked my head in there. Also I recall Paul Cook mentioning he had some in stock a while back. I expect other model stores will have the odd one or two tucked away, they were a pretty common pump.

Davy1

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #88 on: November 25, 2011, 01:05:20 PM »

Many thanks! :-))
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bijou

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2011, 02:35:49 PM »

You can still find the original French made pumps as dead stock in some model shops, they were distributed by Ripmax for use as fuel pumps and they're recognisable from the oriental versions as the plastic is light orange and matt in texture, plus they have the manufacturer and country of origin molded into the case.

HI,
Do You have by "accident" a picture with these pump?. :-)  ;)
Many Thanks in advance ,
                   "bijou"
@thegrimriper
"I watch every step you make,every move you do",so be careful what are you doing ( <*<),because I intend to learn from "your mistakes" {-),and tray to NOT repeat them!.

I kidding of course because I want to build also these sub,some day!.
Can I ask where did you get the plans for it?,and how much did costs?.
THANK YOU.
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batfish

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #90 on: November 25, 2011, 03:10:58 PM »

Hi Mark,

Would the 2nd pump down on this site be of no use to you??

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/water_pumps.html

It claims 2200ml per min,

regards
adam
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batfish

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #91 on: November 25, 2011, 05:11:36 PM »

Also had a quick look overseas.

http://www.mikessubworks.com/page1.html

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #92 on: November 25, 2011, 05:22:38 PM »

That's a centrifugal design. Some make good pressure others don't. Headlamp washer pumps make 40psi- as they're designed to lightly pressure wash the lens of the headlamp. The flow rate is good too.

Picture of the two geared pumps, with the Chinese version on the top pic. Harder shiny plastic, with a redder colour and a sickly yellow coloured front piece.





I've also seen this pump moulded in black plastic, but I think that is a 24 volt version. I've also seen another version with an extended body, perhaps this houses a larger motor? http://www.wiperblades4u.co.uk/12v-Washer-Pump-EWP86.html

This website offers a wide selection of pumps, both geared and centrifugal- http://www.wiperblades4u.co.uk/replacement-washer-pumps/

Interestingly they're still showing the original French Pump, although I'd enquire about that before handing my money over. Also interesting is that unlike many sites they show the flow rates of many of the pumps.

BTW, when mounting these pumps in a submarine, if you have the space, try and mount them vertically with the hose connections pointing downwards, this helps keep the gears wet and enables them to self prime.

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #93 on: November 25, 2011, 08:04:30 PM »

Adam thanks for the links had a look but I think I am going to stick to the pump I have as apparently its a good`un made in France and it seams to pump at a fast rate in both directions just got to mount it then source the tek rack mounts  after that it will be time to test it out in the upstairs test tank which at this time of year is a god send  {-)

Regards Mark
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batfish

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #94 on: November 25, 2011, 11:32:51 PM »

No worries Mark,

I've actually bought one of the audi headlamp jobs that andy linked.

I to am at the decide what goes where what to use etc.
Trial and error....

Watching this build with great interest

regards
adam
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #95 on: November 28, 2011, 08:56:30 AM »

Ok had a bit of a setback over the weekend was redesighning the tek rack for the fromt chamber to give myself a bit more room,spent the day cutting out and ensuring everything would fit put the said tek rack down for about 5 mins then calmley knocked the tek rack off the workbench onto a stone tiled floor from about 3 foot you can probably guess what happend next. ahh well back to the saw tonight.

Regards Mark
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Patrick Henry

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #96 on: November 28, 2011, 09:31:23 AM »

I'd put money on the fact that you said 'oh gosh and bother it'....or something like that.    %)



Rich
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thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #97 on: November 28, 2011, 09:55:29 AM »

Was funny Rich I just sat their looking at the floor shaking my head was that dissapointed in what I had done (leaving the piece on the workbench) while doing something else on the workbench even the wife asked why I wasnt swearing, but hey worse things happen at sea. I have the technology to rebuilt it ha ha ha

Regards Mark
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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #98 on: November 28, 2011, 03:47:05 PM »

That's the main snag with acrylic- doesn't bounce too well!

thegrimreaper

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Re: OTW Vanguard help
« Reply #99 on: November 29, 2011, 09:16:40 AM »

second tek rack now cut out from sheet and servo holes cut think the problem with the first one was the whole I had cut for the pump so I called at halfords and bought a smaller sized pump similar design to the orange pumps but only half the size will be trying it out later in the week and will report back with a couple of photos as well. oh yes and this time I will not be leaving this piece on the bench  :embarrassed: :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

Regards Mark
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