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Author Topic: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild  (Read 13396 times)

Ferry Across The Mersey

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MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« on: November 05, 2011, 07:07:30 PM »

Hi All,

Just starting my rebuild of a scratch built MV Saint Germain Train Ferry originially built by a "Greenwood of Southport". Anyone heard of him? Below are a few photo's of the condition she's in now. I intend to get her back in the water as soon as possible.











Above is one of the original motors which still work. I'm going to try and use these, has anyone seen these before and if so am I wasting my time. Also, if they are OK to use what ESC's shall I use?

There's not much access to the hull as the decks are all fixed in place. The rudder has a rod protruding the rear deck. How can I add a servo to the rod?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Antony
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Arrow5

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2011, 08:30:15 PM »

Looks like a Taycol motor, sell it to a collector.  Get a modern set-up with the proceeds.  Interesting ship, did it take railway coaches on board ?
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carlmt

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2011, 08:32:28 PM »

Hi Anthony - well, you have certainly piqued MY interest with this ferry!!!!

That is a very old scratch built model you have there - obviously built by someone who had 'an affinity' to the Saint Germain!!!!

From your photos, she seems pretty accurate in the overall look - what length is the model? The real ship's particulars were:

Builders - Helsingor Shipbuilding and Engineering Co. Denmark
Yard no - 303
Arrived Dunkerque - 24 July 1951
Entered service - 28 July 1951
Finished service - 16 May 1988
Length o/a - 115.73m
Beadth o/a - 18.47m
Draught molded - 4.12m
Gross tonnage - 3094 (3492 from 1976)
Deadweight - 1299 (1331 from 1976)
Call sign - FNXF
Passengers - 850 (1000 from 1976)
Capacity - 12 railway sleeping cars and 12 luggage vans or 36 rail goods wagons or 135 cars on the train deck, 25 cars in the upper garage.
Engines - 2 x 9 cylinder 2 stroke single acting B&W engines developing 6400hp
Service speed - 16.5kts

More details from an excellent book called 'Saint Germain - Vintage Train Ferry' by John Hendy (ISBN 0951350633) - usually available from Amazon.

Very best of luck with the refurb - good to see more ferry models in existance :-)) :-))

Definitely need a 'Ferry Meet' next year!!!

Carl

Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2011, 09:07:52 PM »

Looks like a Taycol motor, sell it to a collector.  Get a modern set-up with the proceeds.  Interesting ship, did it take railway coaches on board ?

Thanks for the tip. I'll certainly look into that. Yes, the Saint Germain took Southern Railway sleepers on board which I've ordered a couple. Apparently the carriages were chained to the deck which woke all the passengers up so not such a good idea.

Thanks Antony
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2011, 09:16:18 PM »

Hi Anthony - well, you have certainly piqued MY interest with this ferry!!!!

That is a very old scratch built model you have there - obviously built by someone who had 'an affinity' to the Saint Germain!!!!

From your photos, she seems pretty accurate in the overall look - what length is the model? The real ship's particulars were:

Builders - Helsingor Shipbuilding and Engineering Co. Denmark
Yard no - 303
Arrived Dunkerque - 24 July 1951
Entered service - 28 July 1951
Finished service - 16 May 1988
Length o/a - 115.73m
Beadth o/a - 18.47m
Draught molded - 4.12m
Gross tonnage - 3094 (3492 from 1976)
Deadweight - 1299 (1331 from 1976)
Call sign - FNXF
Passengers - 850 (1000 from 1976)
Capacity - 12 railway sleeping cars and 12 luggage vans or 36 rail goods wagons or 135 cars on the train deck, 25 cars in the upper garage.
Engines - 2 x 9 cylinder 2 stroke single acting B&W engines developing 6400hp
Service speed - 16.5kts

More details from an excellent book called 'Saint Germain - Vintage Train Ferry' by John Hendy (ISBN 0951350633) - usually available from Amazon.

Very best of luck with the refurb - good to see more ferry models in existance :-)) :-))

Definitely need a 'Ferry Meet' next year!!!

Carl

Hi Carl,

She's 1.14m long. Yes, I've ordered that book, got quite a shock when I found it on ebay.

Regarding changing the motors for a more modern set up, what would you all recommend and how would you go about separating the deck from the hull as it seems very well attached right now and obviously wasn't intended to take apart? I don't want to destroy this gentleman's hard work. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks Antony
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Arrow5

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2011, 09:41:35 PM »

Thanks Antony, you might find this useful www.taycol.hobby-site.com    Would this be the ship that carried the famous Golden Arrow train ?  Are there rails on the deck, if so the gauge would give the scale of the model, OO or more likely N gauge.
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2011, 10:04:44 PM »

Hi Arrow5,

Below is a sleeper carriage I've ordered:



The power of the Internet strikes again with another fantastic site regarding the night trains: http://www.eastbank.btinternet.co.uk/ferry.htm

I don't know anything about the Golden Arrow train but I'll have a search about that too. Thanks for the link, I've emailed a photo of the motor over as I couldn't find any photo's of Taycol's that were an exact match.

The ship has rails on the deck at that are 20mm apart. As I don't have any railway wagons anymore I don't know what scale that makes it but I hope it's near to 1/87 as that's the scale of the sleepers.

Thanks Antony

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carlmt

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2011, 11:53:23 PM »

Antony - the scale of your model is as close to 1:100 as makes no difference..

real ship 115m long : model 1.14m long = 1:100 (or just over by a gnats...)

Unfortunately, there are no commercial rail wagon available at that scale. The closest would be TT at 1:120 - but that is almost as equally too small compared as HO at 1:87 would be too large!!  N scale at 1:160 would be even worse!!!>:-o >:-o

Sorry friend - but it looks like you would have to scratch build your own %% %%
Carl

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2011, 08:31:17 AM »

That is useful info Carl. I thought that maybe the builder had built the ship to suit existing rail models. There is a Wikipedia page on the Golden Arrow train which was often hauled by a "Merchant Navy" class locomotive appropriately. Pullman coaches would be another colour scheme. The Wagon Lits coaches were much darker blue than in the photograph. This will be an interesting re-build.   Yes to a Ferry Meeting :-))
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Arrow5

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2011, 11:15:19 AM »

You can see a modern(-ish) rail-ferry in operation on the Istanbul to Tehran Trans Asia rail route (3000 km) at Tatvan. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFHMu69Fns&feature=related    Interesting videos.
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2011, 01:11:10 PM »

Antony - the scale of your model is as close to 1:100 as makes no difference..

real ship 115m long : model 1.14m long = 1:100 (or just over by a gnats...)

Unfortunately, there are no commercial rail wagon available at that scale. The closest would be TT at 1:120 - but that is almost as equally too small compared as HO at 1:87 would be too large!!  N scale at 1:160 would be even worse!!!>:-o >:-o

Sorry friend - but it looks like you would have to scratch build your own %% %%
Carl

Hi Carl,

Thanks for info, that's the scale I got it too as well. I'll see what the carriages look like once I get them as they are only cheap. I can use them for a photo shoot if not on board. There is a scale 1/100 but that seems to mainly loco's only or military kits. Maybe I will build one or 2 myself but that will be much later on. I'll post some photo's once they arrive to see what you think.

You can see a modern(-ish) rail-ferry in operation on the Istanbul to Tehran Trans Asia rail route (3000 km) at Tatvan. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHFHMu69Fns&feature=related    Interesting videos.

Hi Arrow5, great videos, the first one seems to have gone through a riot as a load of windows have been broken.

Thanks Antony

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Arrow5

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2011, 01:36:00 PM »

Yes I noticed the broken windows {:-{ wonder what happened.  Did you get the PM ?
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2011, 02:22:06 PM »

Sorry no PM received. The only PM I've had is the Welcome one.

Thanks Antony
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rmaddock

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2011, 04:10:42 PM »

How about hiding a rudder servo in a carriage/truck on the deck?
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2011, 06:07:18 PM »

How about hiding a rudder servo in a carriage/truck on the deck?

Not a bad idea. See the photo's below as I've manged to get the top deck off without causing too much damage. The rudder shaft is encased in the hull so there's no way I want to disturb that so I think I will add the servo arm on the surface and as rmaddock suggest hide it some way in a carriage/truck.







Above are the 2 prop tubes. The old props shafts were 3mm in diameter. I'm thinking of using either the Torpedo 400 or 500 in this. Which would you recommend? Also which is the best retailer?



First I'm going to strip and sand the hull down ready for re-painting. What primer & paint do you guys use?

Thanks Antony
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wartsilaone

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2011, 10:09:55 PM »

NICE PROJECT! I shall be watching this one.

Ali.
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ZZ56

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2011, 05:59:46 AM »

Interesting.  I didn't know they had this style of ferry over on your side of the Pond.  I know there were a bunch on Lake Michigan up to the 1950's and one still operating as a road vehicle ferry.
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Arrow5

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2011, 09:13:45 AM »

 For a Canada check the www.justferries.de site. His trip to the northern fringe of Canada this year is a beauty, no trains though but what a welcome.   A curious mix of old and new is his "Puttgarden to Rodby" (Germany to Denmark) in 1989 featuring the Inter City Express (ICE) high speed train coming and going off and on the ferry. All this and more on youtube of course.
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carlmt

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2011, 09:39:49 AM »

We still have one train ferry still operating on the English Channel - but for how much longer? Who Knows.......

The SeaFrance Nord Pas de Calais...............although she hasn't been used as a train ferry for many years...

Carl

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2011, 09:52:06 AM »

Antony, try to contact BrianC on this forum regarding renovation of your model.  He has been renovating an old static model of RMS Mauretania with all the same sort of problems you might have regarding paint and so on.  Modern techniques might not be compatible , old glues and paint might be best.  I have no knowledge of best size of motors sorry. The type of construction used is called "bread and butter", find out if the layers were pinned or nailed as well as glued.  Probably used Cascamite resin glue. Looking at the rudder tube, would be easy to cut  clearance in the solid part to the rear , reduce height and add rudder horn to a reduced shaft then everything including servo would be under the deck.
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Arrow5

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2011, 11:04:59 AM »

A Sketch to show what I meant in previous post.
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2011, 01:29:44 PM »

Antony, try to contact BrianC on this forum regarding renovation of your model.  He has been renovating an old static model of RMS Mauretania with all the same sort of problems you might have regarding paint and so on.  Modern techniques might not be compatible , old glues and paint might be best.  I have no knowledge of best size of motors sorry. The type of construction used is called "bread and butter", find out if the layers were pinned or nailed as well as glued.  Probably used Cascamite resin glue. Looking at the rudder tube, would be easy to cut  clearance in the solid part to the rear , reduce height and add rudder horn to a reduced shaft then everything including servo would be under the deck.

Thanks for the info and the diagram. I'll look into this and let you know. The diagram is superb. I've seen Brian's renovation of the Mauritania and she looks fantastic. I'll try and ask him a few questions later.

Thanks Antony
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carlmt

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2011, 04:55:00 PM »

Seen this Antony?

http://hhvferry.com/saintgermain_dpx.jpg

Deck plans from 1973......

Excellent website..........

Carl

Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2011, 09:05:31 PM »

Hi Carl,

Wow!! Didn't expect that. I've seen that website before but always seem to get directed to the blog and not the actual www. Fantastic find that will help me no end.

Thanks Antony
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Ferry Across The Mersey

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Re: MV Saint Germain SNCF Train Ferry Rebuild
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2011, 06:57:06 PM »

After quite a bit of stripping, sanding, filling she's finally getting a coat of primer. Not as smooth as I would have liked but she is old and I suppose the real thing wasn't like glass anyway. Lots of ideas including making her travel/storage cradle into some sort of diorama. More of that soon..............







Thanks Antony
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