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Author Topic: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build  (Read 40181 times)

dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #100 on: February 10, 2012, 08:59:54 PM »

Stbd foremast deadeyes and chain plates in.

D.



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barryfoote

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #101 on: February 10, 2012, 09:19:03 PM »

Dennis, I hope you don't mind me saying, but those chain fasteners look way over scale. A bolt head is as large as the bore of a gun. Have a play, using rigging cord from the plate to the hull side and wrap it around a couple of small pin or nail heads, pushed into the hull.  :-))
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #102 on: February 10, 2012, 11:50:01 PM »

Hmmmm... point well taken Footski.  I struggled this time. What was supplied in the kit was grossly over-scaled, so I tried some of my own thing and used some of theirs.... did not work.  I'll adjust and see what I can do.  Thanks for kindly pointing that out.

Dennis
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barryfoote

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #103 on: February 11, 2012, 08:18:51 AM »

Dennis,
The ship looks beautiful, so just had to speak up as it were. I had a similar problem on a few of mine, and found the rigging cord and pin idea worked very well. It kept them small and almost unnoticeable as they are in reality...as can be seen from my Victory.
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #104 on: February 11, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »

Hi Footski,   oh, no problem.  That is why I'm posting here.  I know this is a good forum with outstanding builders and I'm always open to constructive criticism.... always.  Beautiful job on the Victory my friend.  Yes, I took your advice and am reworking those chain plates right now. The funny thing is that I did one as a testor on the aft port side and used wire all the way down instead of rigging line and it turned out fine.  I don't know why I got it into my head to try to use supplied junk from the kit, but I did.  So, I tried your idea of using rigging line and it actually works better and is easier to manage.  So, thank you and I'll post pics when I finish this gang.

Regards,

Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #105 on: February 12, 2012, 03:07:00 AM »

Ok, I have reworked those out of scale chainplates.  Using Footski's suggestion, I pulled those ugly oversize pins and plate covers and replaced with rigging line stretched between 1/2" number 75 drill size pins with smaller heads.  They are the smallest that I have in stock.  I think the result will be ok and subsequent chainplates will be cleaner since they will be freshly installed and not a result of a nasty demo scene.  Oh the fun of it all. :embarrassed:

Dennis

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barryfoote

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #106 on: February 12, 2012, 07:54:01 AM »

Brilliant Dennis. This really is going to be a superb model.. :-))
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2012, 11:47:20 PM »

Ok, been busy with upper gundeck railing and guard rails.  Also started to add mesh between stanchions.

Dennis

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dreadnought72

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2012, 11:59:55 PM »

Hi Dennis.

I love this era's ships. Stunning job!  O0

Andy
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Enjoying every minute sailing W9465 Mertensia

dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2012, 10:41:02 PM »

Tks Andy.  I'm having a blast.  Ok... doing  a number of detail little things.... added more railing mesh, a ladder going down to the lower gun deck, pin rails for the foremast rigging and the first of the upper gun deck cannon, plus some eyelets for the main mast.

Dennis



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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #110 on: February 17, 2012, 08:18:15 PM »

Main mast pin rail and supports installed.



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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2012, 12:18:16 AM »

Ok folks,  this is what I'm messing with at the moment.  Since I'm pretty much building the military version Frigate, I need to decide on the railing on that upper gun deck.  On the French version model I have been referencing, just a webbing is attached between the stanchions, but my plans call for a double rail with a packing inserted between the webbing I suppose to give some form of protection to crew.  The packing is made up of rolled material that is formed into a "U" and sized at the middle.  I simulated that with some large diameter hemp that I have.  It seems to be working, but man, it is labor intensive.  I will have to make up 20 per rail section and that would be a total of 560 for the entire railing. I guess its not much different than applying a thousand copper plates to the hull bottom.  I'm willing to do it, but am wondering if its worth the effort.  Any thoughts out there?  I mocked up a short section to see how it will look.  Only have one side with webbing.. both sides would be done... in fact the webbing would be like a bag or "U" supporting the packing between the rails.

Still having loads of fun.

Dennis



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bobk

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2012, 12:32:35 AM »

Your attention to detail is incredible Dennis, this is truly a wonderful build which I always look forward to the latest updates for.
"but am wondering if its worth the effort"    Knowing how you work you would probably regret not having gone the extra mile if you hadn't   O0
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2012, 07:12:37 AM »

Thank you for the kind words Bob.  I've got the time and the effort for detail is important and adds to the fun.  I feel honored to be associated with such fine builders on this forum.  I am amazed at the talent that I see and it just adds to my desire to keep going with the project.

I have been working on another idea.  After installing the support beams across the main hatch that will support both cutters, I realized that they will significantly block ones view of the lower gun deck. So I have been trying to figure out how to show the larger of the two cutters being hoisted over the side.  I don't think I have ever seen a ship model with that being shown.  I had to do a bit of research to find out how they did it and once I stumbled on the key word "Garnet" that I was able to find this information: http://uvsmgshipmodelguild.wikispaces.com/Hoisting+Tackle    I looks somewhat complex using several block and tackle "Garnets" and both the fore and main lower yards.  I really think it would look cool to display that boat being lifted over the side, or at least in that direction.. freeing up some viewing space for the lower deck in the process.  But, that is something for next winters phase of the project.

One can truly get lost in the details on these old sailing ships... the engineering was truly remarkable for the time, or any time....

Dennis
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pugwash

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2012, 07:29:20 AM »

Dennis the packing you mentioned in your reply #111 on a British ship was the rolled and lashed up Hammocks of the crew.
The Boatswains mate or on of the petty officers had a wooden ring (think it was about 1 foot diameter) which the hammock had
to be passed through to prove it had been properly lashed up, then it could be stowed in the rack.
Once in the racks they make excellent splinter and musket ball protection

Geoff
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barryfoote

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #115 on: February 20, 2012, 08:07:08 AM »

Dennis, Geoff is spot on with his description of what were called "Hammock nettings"

With regard to hoisting the ships boat I reckon it can be done, but check to see just how much of the lower deck view is obstructed by the standing rigging before deciding. A little tip if you do go with it; when the boat is hanging above the deck, add some weight to stretch the cables and run a little superglue along the hoisting ropes. This will set them, so they always look taught and under pressure.

Coming along beautifully.
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #116 on: February 20, 2012, 03:55:27 PM »

Tks Geoff, I had no clue what was being used and it all makes sense, of course.  Gonna have to think about using fabric to simulate the hammocks or just go ahead with what I'm using.  Hard to really tell at this scale.

Understand Footski.  Its all about scale and physics... but superglue does wonders.....hahahaha.... I'm gonna have to give this more thought and wait until all rigging, both standing and running is in.  They must have relaxed sheet lines, etc. when they did the lift. So, will have to consider all of that.  Still, its an intriquing idea.  I've never seen it done on a model.  I've seen and have done ships boats on davits, but never one being hoisted over the rail.  I get off on these side cars sometimes {:-{

Dennis
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #117 on: February 20, 2012, 07:34:27 PM »

I tried some fine linen, but that just did not work, so I went back to the hemp method.  One rail section took me 4hrs.  I decided not to try to seize the hemp, as it will not be seen at this scale, so I just cut a short section of line, bend it in half, clip it on my "helping hands" and put a dab of super glue, then I glue it to the chain of lines to form a section.  Then I glued on some webbing and inserted to rail.  I will add a section rail to encapsulate.  I think it looks passable, so will continue doing this for a month.

Dennis







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barryfoote

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2012, 08:08:32 PM »

That looks good Dennis. Many hammock nettings were covered in a tarpaulin cover to protect the hammocks from the weather. That could save you a lot of time...An option anyway..
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2012, 03:07:36 AM »

On the topic of "Hammock Netting".  The internet of course has a wealth of information.  You just need accurate terminology to help narrow down the search.  It is true (I never doubted the great inputs put forth on this forum) that hammocks on military 17th and 18th century fighting ships were used for barriers on the upper gun deck.  Two fold that placing them on deck did provide some form of ventilation, although being rolled and folded only provided a partial airing out and I'll bet they were ripe and also they provide some form of shrapenel barrier for the crew.  For weather protection, they did cover the netting with a stiff canvas and often painted that canvas black.  It did finally lead to using boards instead of canvas and ultimately the webbing or netting was discontinued.  So with all that lovely information, what was I to do with my model?  Covering with canvas would ease the amount of work that I have been doing making these bloody hammocks, but the look would be more like a wooded in railing.  I did read that they would leave the canvas off in fair weather so that the hammocks could breath a bit.  So my decision will be a compromise.  I will place hammocks strategically, but not all the way around on both sides and just leave the netting empty in spots.  I might try one seciton with canvas that might have one edge curled back to reveal the hammocks... or not.  So onward, I recieved my cannon port lids from BlueJacket in the mail today and they are going to look just super.. very pleased and does save me a ton of work.  I'll post a new pic tomorrow to show progress.

Fairwinds,

Dennis
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pugwash

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #120 on: February 22, 2012, 06:32:48 AM »

Dennis I have only recently picked up this build log -I'm not sure what scale you are building to?
I was looking again at the hammock netting from photos of the Victory I think the mess of the netting is about 6inches square and reasonably thick rope.
I hope you don't mind me mentioning that if this is the case with yours the hammocks are too thin. When stowed they are about I ft diameter and about
5 1/2 ft long and they are white canvas as they were scrubbed.  I can vouch for this as my first two ships I slept in one and it had to be scrubbed fairly
regularly.  I just think you could save yourself a lot of work by making them thicker  so you would not be making so many,  I was also under the impression
that they were stowed horizontally  in the racks but I could well be wrong there
Hope this helps as you really have a lovely build coming along here

Geoff
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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #121 on: February 22, 2012, 04:59:57 PM »

Geoff,  Thank you so much for your wise inputs.  Believe me, I'm not the expert here and this is the first true "Ship of the Line" that I have attempted to build. So, as always, I'm learning.  Scale is 1:72 I think.  Yes, the netting I'm using is a tad light, but I'd rather err on light than err on heavy, cause once you do that, it can become like a sore thumb.  And you bet, I have already err'd on heavy with this model, so she is truly not to scale in some areas.  I find in model making for me that it is a point of frustration to achieve some kind of perfection.  I marvel and am amazed at the truly fine craftsmanship from those that are gifted at this hobby.  I tend to rely on my judgment of eye and if it looks good to me, I go for it.  When you expose yourself to a population of builders, the comments and advice are gonna come and that is truly a good thing, because you learn from it and we all must choose weither to take the advice or not, as always.  So, I got on the internet to try to learn more about this hammock/netting thing and did find out some interesting information which is shared on an earlier post.  I did read that the hammocks were stored both vertically and horizontally, depending on the location on the ship's rails.  The canvas was both painted black and left unpainted... who knows, was it captain directed or what?  One thing I have noticed that with my camera Macro shots, I am seeing almost more than my old eyes can give me in detail... that is wild!   So, as I sit in my "moanin" chair and gaze at my model, those hammocks and netting look just about right to me.  Only thing I'm tempted to do is paint the netting black to help make it stand out more... might try a testor to see how it looks.

Regards,

Dennis
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Netleyned

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #122 on: February 22, 2012, 05:26:50 PM »

The hammock was quite versatile.
Not only your bed but a splinter catcher and a well lashed hammock
could keep you afloat for quite some time if the worst happened.

Ned

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dlancast

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Re: English Frigate Build
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2012, 12:40:02 AM »

Still have the inside rail to add, but this gives an idea of what its going to look like.  Added a few cannon lids and chemically changed the belay pins to something like oiled bronze... was supposed to be brown, but I think this will work.  Need to add another cannon towards the bow on the port side.

Dennis







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barryfoote

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Re: English Frigate "Ajax" 1765 Build
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2012, 07:10:53 AM »

She is looking great. I really am enjoying your build Dennis. By the way, Cannon lids are called "tompions".
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