Topic: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear (Read 115425 times)

Jerry C · « **Reply #250 on:** June 04, 2013, 04:42:22 pm »

A few more clips
http://youtu.be/LkzsXJu7xnU
http://youtu.be/brfU4aIyhcQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D2-9DZpTkw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjt9AlV5A4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34UZGXNnRww
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3DmodQaC6Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwjATkuoKvE
Jerry.

logoman · « **Reply #251 on:** June 04, 2013, 11:02:19 pm »

Looks like fun, than you for sharing.

Jerry C · « **Reply #252 on:** June 10, 2013, 06:13:52 pm »

The last few steams have found feed pump not keeping up with water consumption but test of pump found now problems so must be using more steam than before. Because the burner had gone out quite a few times, since changing the de-oiler tank and plumbing, I decided to temporarily remove the exhaust steam pipe from the inner funnel to see if any improvement. On running the engine I noticed comparatively large amounts of condensate squirting from exhaust after the de-oiler. Before, this was being put into the inner funnel. Now, burner is ok but also heats the water much faster and maintains pressure better. On stalling the engine by grabbing the flywheel I found steam leaking past one or both of the slide valves and emitting from the exhaust (I can see it now). When I repaired the rear slide valve spindle, the slide was, if I'm honest, probably too tight a fit on the spindle. I removed the old spindle and replaced it with one of the new ones and cured the leak. The whistle was originally put high on the funnel for scale reasons. It always had to clear a lot of condensate before sounding and sprayed water everywhere so I've moved it to the top of the steam manifold where it now works instantly and sounds much clearer. It now drives the dogs mental! In its place on the funnel I have put the new steam exhaust pipe as a temporary rig using some larger bore brass pipe and a bit of flexible tube. This may become permanent.
Jerry.

SailorGreg · « **Reply #253 on:** June 10, 2013, 09:06:57 pm »

Thanks for the commentary on your issues Jerry - very informative. Do you plan to keep your exhaust external to the chimney? It sounds like it has a big effect on the ease of raising steam. As I am just about to plumb in my condenser I need to decide where to route the exhaust, and keep changing my mind between internal and external.

I am also wondering about the condensate coming out of the exhaust. Is this to be expected, as some steam will condense in the last length of pipe before reaching the outside world, or do you think it's a symptom of something not quite right elsewhere? The fact that you mention it suggests it hadn't been happening before.

(Sorry there were no videos of Wear at Coniston, but I enjoyed the other clips.)

Greg

Jerry C · « **Reply #254 on:** June 10, 2013, 10:57:26 pm »

Hi Greg, you've probably noticed that I have two funnels. The first is the copper one that comes with the boiler from new and the second is a larger diameter longer aluminium one for scale and weight purposes. On the first build with the oversized de-oiler I ran the steam straight through both funnels with no curve or upsweep. I had no actual problems with that arrangement but always had the idea that there was more to come from the burner. With the half sized de-oiler I initially ran the steam as before but with the end bent upwards in the inner funnel to make the fire draw better as in steam loco practice. It worked but too well and the flame left the burner and went up the flue and flamed out. I returned to the original straight in route but had more flame outs. If you remember my first video on YouTube the wind was atrocious and it was just above freezing but the launch performed perfectly. It is possible that positioning of the steam outlet inside the funnel is critical and that first time was pure luck. I don't know. On the lake yesterday I had a flameout so I quickly removed the pipe from the funnels and jury rigged a soft pipe to the roof stanchion and everything went well or even better. I couldn't do a long test though cos for the first time in 4 1/2 years three peeps were on same frequency so I backed off and let them get on with it. It was when I flashed up and ran the engine that I saw the water shooting out of the pipe which got me thinking. I always try to alter one thing at a time to keep things simple. Also I had a couple of kids who were asking hundreds of questions without waiting for an answer and that mixes my head up! Anyway to answer your question I intend to carry on with the external pipe and if things work out ok next Sunday at the lake I'll keep it but do a better job and lag it to the top. I don't think the condensate coming out of the pipe is a Symtom of a problem and it must have been happening before but as it was inside the flue I couldn't see it. Even now I get condensation inside the top of the external flue but that is just the product of combustion. Remember for every kilo of fuel you burn you make a kilo of water. I would expect your layout will have some different performance because you take heat from the de oiler to heat your feedwater where intake my heat from the base of the inner flue and keep my de oiler hot so my condensate is in the long brass final pipe.
I was really teed off about the lack of video but to be fair was not on the water for long and wife doesn't know how to use my big camera on video and she was too far away to use the iPhone.
Jerry.

Jerry C · « **Reply #255 on:** June 10, 2013, 11:31:24 pm »

All these problems or opportunities as I prefer to call them are what makes steam so fascinating. I started off knowing a bit and read every post on steam and steam r&d to broaden my knowledge then picked and chose what I needed. Not all decisions proved to be wise but that's the fun. I love a puzzle and quite often wake up in the morning with a solution. I then look for a more elegant solution. My first de oiler was a case in point. I've also had problems with weight hence no on board feedwater tank. I could have done with one on Coniston. The Ali outer funnel is lighter than the original steel one but draws heat from the gas exhaust more causing the condensation at the top. This drips onto the wood boiler lagging which results in streaks on the varnish. It bothered me at first but since looking over the real ones at the regatta I now regard it as "ageing". The heat leaking from the vents in the burner has put colours on the little dolls house bucket that lives there that I could never have done with paint. If I could get a decent bronzy on Slack Alice's toyboy helmsman I'd be really happy. He's prosthesis pink at the moment! Hoho. If anybody has any ideas on something to indicate from a distance that the the flame has gone out I'm all ears.
Jerry.

Jerry C · « **Reply #256 on:** June 13, 2013, 07:06:11 pm »

For those Calgary members. My brother on the billboard. Don't worry, he's gone to Houston now!
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #257 on:** June 13, 2013, 08:22:54 pm »

Hi Jerry, I was wondering, where did you get Slack Alice from, I am in need of figures for African Queen, a Humphrey Bogart and a Catherine Hepburn, or close enough, the ones I have seen so far don't seem to fit the bill, mainly they are too 'modern' looking. AQ is 1/10th scale, and dolls house kit is 1/12th I think, do you think the difference would be noticeable?
I am hoping to get cracking with a vengeance and get her finished.
Wear is looking good, I gave mine a bit of a service, and I suspect the o rings need replacing, The cylinder end cover with the gland seems to be pressed in, and have been thinking on the best way to remove them. Heat? Locktite de bonding stuff, twisting and pulling? any suggestions welcome. The manufacturer wants 45 quid to replace them, which I think is a tad expensive.
Nick....

Jerry C · « **Reply #258 on:** June 13, 2013, 08:58:33 pm »

Nick, I don't think 1/12 scale figures will be a problem. They could be just short people. I noticed on dolls house websites that figures come in varying heights.
Your question about o rings has me puzzled. Did you build the engine or did you buy ready assembled? Why do you think o rings need replacing? Do you have a parts list? If so let me know which parts you are referring to. I can think of no parts pressed in. "The cylinder cover with the gland appeared to be pressed in"? There are two cylinder covers and these are on top of the cylinders and have no gland. The cylinders go on top of the cylinder mount which has two glands. Each gland has an o ring held in by a seal retainer in turn held down with two screws.These glands seal the piston rod. If nothing leaking, leave well alone. How many hours has it run? What does the manufacturer do for £45. It's a long way to go to get a repair you can do yourself (if it really needs doing). If you didn't build engine yourself, do you have the special tools?
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #259 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:24:40 pm »

Hi Jerry, the engine is an SVS twin oscillator, the cylinders are bored to a blind end, it that is the tern, so there is no cylinder head the bottom end has the piston rod coming out through the cover thro a boss with no stuffing nut to adjust, no flange and screws to adjust as on TVR valve chest glands. There are no screws or bolts holding the cover on, only a thin line where the join is. The engine is quite a lot looser than when it was new, and seems to be using more steam than usual, A lot of water gushes out if the glands when the engine is first started, and when it is warmed up, it is passing steam.Heres a photo from manufacturers website of the engine in question. The quote was to replace o rings in both cylinders.

Jerry C · « **Reply #260 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:32:36 pm »

Sooo sorry Nick, I thought you were using a tvr. I know absolutely nothing about your engine, sorry.
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #261 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:40:52 pm »

I will post a picture of the engine in question tomorrow, the boat is in the car at the moment. I should have mentioned that it was an SVS engine, I have a TVR as well.Over the last year the little SVS has given Stirling service with, at a guess 80 hours total running time, as I go to the lake 3 times a week weather permitting....

Jerry C · « **Reply #262 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:43:01 pm »

When are you coming to Carmel?

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #263 on:** June 13, 2013, 09:51:07 pm »

Ah, now theres a thing, I have been meaning to go for a while now, but with one thing or another, don't seem to get round to it, within the next month or so hopefully. I will let you know and bring the boat if it is on one of your sailing days.

Jerry C · « **Reply #264 on:** June 13, 2013, 10:17:28 pm »

You've got my number, give me a call and if I'm still here we'll go to the lake.
Jerry.

Jerry C · « **Reply #265 on:** June 16, 2013, 05:18:54 pm »

Since making the new external steam exhaust and repositioning the whistle I read an old post concerning ceramic burner problems. The problem on the post was about melting a Stewart square ceramic burner due to lighting the flame upstream of the ceramic element. There was talk of elements glowing similar to domestic gas fires. Looking at my burner I couldn't see why the ceramic element would ever glow as cold gas is passing through it and the flame moves away from the face of the element. Looking through the secondary air slots one can only see the cones of light blue flame exiting the holes in the element and a bit of the dark blue flame further away. It is not possible to see the top of the flame but I would expect it to be blue with no yellow flame. I reduced the flow of gas to the minimum require to keep flame alight and then I could see the ceramic start to glow very bright orange. In this situation there was not enough heat to maintain pressure. Turn up to max noise and pressure rose rapidly. Also mentioned in the post was that Mr Maccsteam said that the gas jet should be fitted into the jet holder using a small amount of ptfe tape. If not gas could leak past the threads and not burn properly resulting in heat losses. Not having any tape handy I used a tiny amount of BMW Dribond. On lighting my boiler from cold (15°C) 60psi was reached in under 6 minutes with sight glass half full. Big improvement. Going back to my external exhaust, the bore of the pipe is now the same as the TVR engine manifold I/D. The engine now runs much faster on similar throttle openings. Less back pressure downstream of pistons. Today at the lake a very successful day, engine running much more free, whistle functioning instantly from 15psi to 60 and crystal clear with nil spray. Feedpump working well again. Weather was ok but with a few big gusts. One gust caused a flame out but when lifted boat ashore no smell of gas and found gas tank empty after 30 minute run. So it would appear that gas consumption has increased. Only reason I can think for this is that frequent pricking of jet in past has marginally widened the jet orifice. This could also explain all the increased performance. Altogether too many variables. My head hurts. Will sleep on it.
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #266 on:** June 16, 2013, 07:03:14 pm »

During a conversation I had with Mr Maccsteam, he advised against pricking the jet as it will increase the size of the jet in no time at all, instead, he advocates sucking, from the threaded side to clear any possible blockages. I carry a couple of spares, as they are not expensive, so I can have a quick fix at the lakeside. Also, according to Mr Macc most gas canisters do contain tiny bits of muck in the gas that can cause blockages.

Jerry C · « **Reply #267 on:** June 16, 2013, 07:05:48 pm »

Tried sucking it but felt an attack of the bends coming on.
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #268 on:** June 16, 2013, 07:08:25 pm »

I went purple, hence the spare jets.....

Jerry C · « **Reply #269 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:26:45 pm »

A lovely day at Llyn Padarn. Very hot with baking sun. Raised steam in less than 5 minutes. (Caught me napping). Boat ran Perfick. With larger bore in exhaust can use less steam and burner keeping up well. First run lasted 35 mins which is enough. When I came to refuel however, I couldn't get any gas in the tank as tank warmer than refill so left the refill in the sun and draped wet tissue paper over the gas tank for 10 mins and was able to refuel. Second and subsequent runs 35 mins. Feed pump matched consumption exactly. A good day!
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #270 on:** July 07, 2013, 05:29:04 pm »

Hi Jerry, I too had burner problems today, First off, I fitted a new jet, and used a little ptfe around the therad, so far so good, I dipped the tank in the lake for 5 mins to cool it down, and filled it, Then the trouble started,,,, it worked for a few minutes, then went out and would not relight. Not enough gas in the tank sez I, thinking all was too hot for filling, so cooled the tank again and squeezed more gas in, Nothing, most strange, took burner out and tried to light it out of the boat, and was rewarded with a sooty yellow flame, then, nowt. I took the new jet out and had a look at it, blocked! So, I fitted another jet, again with ptfe, and the same thing happened, a feeble attempt, followed by, nowt. I checked the jet again, it was blocked, so, after roundly cursing the gas canister company for not filtering the gas properly, in go's jet no 3, the last one of my new jets, and yes, you've guessed it, exactly the same thing happened, a feeble attempt at burning, then, nowt. To cut a long story short, I returned to the original jet, gave it a good clean, using the suction method, and was about to fit it when I noticed a weird sludgy substance in the burner tube, upon closer investigation, it looked suspiciously like ptfe tape gone wrong, so I cleaned it all away and fitted the jet without ptfe tape, and hey presto, all was well. All that consumed nearly 2 hours of my sailing time, and all in blistering sunshine, but all's well that ends well, and I had a couple of nice 1/2 hour runs in the sunshine. After talking to a plumber chum of mine it turns out that not all ptfe is suitable for gas applications, the gas disolving the tape and blocking the jets with gunge. I will have to now go and find the correct sort of ptfe tape, or use low strength locktite. So beware folks, don't use just any old ptfe tape.

as it could all end in

SailorGreg · « **Reply #271 on:** July 07, 2013, 06:49:47 pm »

One of the huge advantages of this forum is learning from the experience of others

Thanks Nick for that little tale. So sorry you lost that precious time having fun but be happy in the knowledge that you have saved others from the same fate!

Greg

Jerry C · « **Reply #272 on:** July 07, 2013, 09:05:06 pm »

Nick, all understood. There is a foofoo paste that gas peeps use but unlike our jets theirs stay cool being generally thermally insulated from the flame by distance. As you will have discovered our jets get hot!!! I swear by BMW Drei- bond. It's expensive at £16 a tube but a little goes an awful long way. It is good for ALL our joints and threads. It is used on BMW K100RS oil/water pump. This is a composite unit so foofoo is oil and hot water(110°c) proof. Put on too little rather than too much.
Glad you managed a sail in the end. Also strongly advise you increase theI/D of your exhaust system to at least the same size as the tvr exhaust manifold. The effect is very noticeable.
All the best,
Jerry.

pettyofficernick · « **Reply #273 on:** July 07, 2013, 09:23:16 pm »

Hi Jerry, can't really increase the size of the exhaust on the SVS engine, it comes with the inlet and exhaust pipe stubs ready made from 1/8th stainless steel pipe directly threaded into the engine, to increase the bore of the pipe I would have to enlarge the holes in the engine. The Exhaust on my TVR is currently 5/32, bit I am looking into increasing the size to 3/16. The TVR is not yet installed in the AQ, hoping to put a spurt on the build before summers out.....

Jerry C · « **Reply #274 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:37:00 pm »

Yes you can. Pressure drop directly proportional to length of exhaust pipe and also friction and velocity, indirectly proportional to cross sectional area of pipe. The restriction at the engine is not a problem as steam will expand after exiting this stub. Let it expand a bit which will reduce velocity but don't let it cool. Can't do any harm to try.
Jerry.

News:

Author Topic: Jerry's - Steam Launch - Wear (Read 115425 times)